3/7 GDT: Blue Jackets 8 at Red Wings 2

[Wingsallwin 0]

Get this, NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD EVER say Osgood's play has "thrilled" or that he has played "great" this year. In no sports column would his play be deemed even remotely acceptable. Horrible, a failure, a minor-leaguer, off-his-game, would all be used...this isn't about a guy who's on again off again or who has hung in there or is a starting goaltender in a slump or was a force early and has tailed off, it's a guy who's been a passenger on a great team all year. Who's had chances and chances to turn it around and hasn't come close. He's letting his team down. His play is unacceptable. Now admit it.

I still hope Osgood will improve rest of the season but that looks impossible. As you said, if you go out and see the journals of professional hockey journalists, they say Osgood is a garbage this season.

The problem is people do not realize it. Is it just a great expectation or reasonless love on Osgood?

People have to know Osgood should be very resposibile for every goal. There is no sentence that this goal is his fault or not. That is a brutal joke as the fan of the NHL.

If the slump is more than 3 months, that is not a slump. What is that called?

FAILURE

[Wingsallwin 0]

The way our defence and goalies are playing I'm afraid of any team that makes the playoffs...........

Somehow, I am not afraid the matchup against the Flames, Hawks, and the Sharks. Remember last season? We played great since the 1st round. We struggled against the Preds in the first round.

That pattern hasn't changed. We do not play at our best when we play against weak teams. It is not a cup hangover or others.

The 1st round will be very tough for us. Idealically, we will meet Jackets, Preds, or some other teams. By this poor effort on average teams, no surprise even though we will be kicked out in the 1st round

[gcom007 1,465]

Superstar? s*** when Osgood is in goal we don't even have an AHL goalie. Granted the defence hasen't been great but when your #1 goalie faces 23, yes that's right only 23 shots and lets in 7 it's pretty damn hard to believe that either one of the Griffins goalies could be worse..............

What was Conklin on pace for then last week? Over 20??? Hmm, yes. 4 Goals on 9 shots in a matter of moments. He probably would've been up to 7 by the end of the 1st the way it was going for him. And they were uglier goals for Conklin than anything Osgood let in tonight, hence why he was pulled. Babcock would've pulled Osgood a lot sooner if he thought it was at all Osgood's fault.

Again, look back at my history in these threads for years. I'm rarely one who says "oh, can't blame the goalie." I don't hate on the goalie either though. I think there's usually a lot of things that happen before a goal is scored but only 1 guy on the ice has stats that keep track of those things and he wears the biggest pads. But none the less, I tend to just leave it as it is and say hey, I would've liked to see the goalies stop more. Who wouldn't?

Tonight is literally the first game all year where I feel fairly comfortable saying that there's nothing any goalie could've done on almost every goal scored tonight sans the last couple scored on both goalies once the thing was already emotionally a trainwreck and very much over. You can barely even count those against the goalie at that point. But getting there? Sorry, again, go review those goals and tell me Luongo's even going to make a quarter of those saves on a great night.

It ain't happening.

Osgood's got plenty of s***ty games under his belt this year where he deserved to be ragged on. This was absolutely not one of them.

[clutchngrab 12]

I think it's funny that all the Ozzy bashers (and are fair weather fans) come down hard on Osgood. Yet, last week when Conklin was absolutely pathetic, didn't catch this much heat... Then Conklin comes in tonight and gives up the softest goal of the game, but that's Defense's fault...

Conklin isn't the answer. Our only chance come PO if Osgood. Love it or hate it, Conklin sucks, Osgood sucks, but atleast Ozzie is a proven goalie and proved that he can come up big.

Osgood > Conklin

you again with this s***? You are rapidly becoming a voice of one, captain ahab.

[gcom007 1,465]

gcom007

Conklin's stats are inflated because he's got quite a few shutouts against junk teams and started in some games where the team played completely up to their potential. He's had plenty of stinker games too and a boatload of 3-4 goal games. Go look at the game log. It's not near as pretty consistently as his stats suggest. And I'm not saying Osgood's stats or game by games should thrill you this season by any stretch. But the fact that anyone thinks that going with a totally unproven guy like Conklin with inconsistent numbers is infinitely better off than going with a guy having a shaky season who won his second Cup 9 months ago is out of their minds. I'm not saying Osgood is playing well, but Conklin is absolutely not playing well enough to warrant any sort of elevated confidence in him. Neither goalie has played great this year the whole way through.

But again...

More so, neither goalie has gotten much help and heaven knows what team will show up to play in front of them any given night.

The MORON CLUB's members are in full force again

What a great point. Thanks for contributing to the discussion.

[eva unit zero 271]

Superstar? s*** when Osgood is in goal we don't even have an AHL goalie. Granted the defence hasen't been great but when your #1 goalie faces 23, yes that's right only 23 shots and lets in 7 it's pretty damn hard to believe that either one of the Griffins goalies could be worse..............

Yeah, and how many of those shots were of the variety where the goaltender didn't have a chance, where the puck was deflected right before it got to the net or a defenseman passed the puck right to the opposing player or something like that? About four or five tonight would be the answer.

Sorry, but you can't just take the numbers and say "this guy stopped this many shots and faced this many" because it just doesn't work that way. You have to consider the quality of the scoring opportunities as well.

If you are going based just on numbers, then Conklin's 10 minutes against Nashville were worse than what Osgood played, Conklin faced 9 shots and gave up 4 goals in those ten minutes against Nashville. If you're going to say that one of the Griffins goalies could outdo Osgood's Columbus game, I'll respond by posting that the Wings would have been better off starting me in net for that Nashville game. Hey, I do have a quick glove hand from playing shortstop in high school...

[shadow47 1]

Neither Wings goalie is good Eva. It's just Osgood is worse.

[Z and D for the C 712]

How much did conklin play? NHL.com says he didn't play at all.

[ComradeWasabi 109]

Boy, am I ever glad I missed this one.

[gcom007 1,465]

I did not know the Sharks, and Hawks are garbage teams. And as you just said, sometimes team's potential comes into play, there was Conklin. Isn't that pretty much a deal?

Think about it. I played hockey as a defense and still do. When you have a reliable goalie on the back, you can play more comfortable because even though you make little mistakes, the goalie will be able to cover up. However, when you have a terrible goalie like Osgood now, you cannot play comfortable because you have too much pressure on keeping the puck well.

I know Conklin is an umproven goalie even though he is having a good season with us but we have two choices right now. Osgood, who has a tremendous experience of playoff, and Conklin who has only few minutes of experience. If we have to choose one right now, I will choose Conklin over Osgood while many others will choose Osgood.

I know the experience on goalie is very significant during the playoff but experience is only experience. There is hell no chance Osgood will have a success by this performance. I kind hoped Osgood would bounce back but that was only two games, shutout against the Blues and the Kings.

Now as you mentioned ,as Conklin got lucky on weak teams, Osgood got lucky on weak teams. Then why are stats between two goalies are very different? Did NHL love Conklin over Osgood and they changed the stats of Conklin?

No. If you really watched many of the Wings games this season, you probably realized Osgood is always out of his position and having a slow reaction. I meant, when the playoff time comes up, the most important position is goalie, not defenses or offenses.

This team by far has gotten no goalie who really can take this team to far in the playoff. Then, if there is none, we have to build the confidence on goalie. I agreed that we have to build a confidence on both but first Osgood because he has more experience. However, now I think we would rather build the confidence on Conklin.

Remember, Osgood was not successful in any other teams when he left the Wings. He had some but not as much as he was in the Wings. I think people here overestimate Osgood. If you go out and ask other teams' fans, Osgood is not even considered as a starter. I have tons of firends who watch hockey but no one says Osgood is a great goaltender.

Again, I am not bringing up the disgrace upon Osgood but this season is not his season. We have only one month left and this is the time we have to prepare for the playoff, not just testing which goalie will be our starter.

Don't get me wrong. I am scared of the Wings meet Jackets in the first round. They reminded me consider them as the Flames and Oilers who beat us just few years ago by only one good goalie.

Not successful? He went to the Islanders, a bottom of the barrel team who placed last or close to it the year before and put up better individual numbers than he did in Detroit and carried them on his back into the playoffs. What, he didn't win a Cup so he's not successful? That's about the only way you can say it because by any other measurement, he looked great personally among the otherwise atrocious Islanders. He had a rough stretch in St. Louis where some injuries shook him up a bit and he got off his game, but he came around and many players cited him as one of the key difference makers in them finding any success at all.

How many Cups has Luongo won? Has he not been very successful because he hasn't won a Cup? Hell, he's only won one damn playoff series and has made the playoffs once. Even Osgood managed to carry the Islanders into the playoffs and again, you're talking about a last place level team 00/01. But hey, we gotta get rid of Rafalski and so and so so we can sign someone like Luongo who knows how to win.

Right.

I know y'all think it's so fun to hate on Osgood and you think you're so smart in doing so, but all you really do is prove how ignorant you are. The more you say, the sillier you look. Osgood has not looked like even a shadow the goalie he was last year, but even if he did, or even if we had Luongo, games like this would still be happening with a defense as horrible as ours has looked in some of these games. It doesn't matter who's in net if we can't get the defense straightened out. That's the bottom line. It is absolutely concern #1 for this hockey club. I think everyone in the organization will tell you the same thing without thinking twice as well.

[CanadaBoy 151]

When was the last time a "team" with the worst save percentage and 2nd worst goals against average won the Stanley Cup?

[shadow47 1]

What was Conklin on pace for then last week? Over 20??? Hmm, yes. 4 Goals on 9 shots in a matter of moments. He probably would've been up to 7 by the end of the 1st the way it was going for him. And they were uglier goals for Conklin than anything Osgood let in tonight, hence why he was pulled. Babcock would've pulled Osgood a lot sooner if he thought it was at all Osgood's fault.

Again, look back at my history in these threads for years. I'm rarely one who says "oh, can't blame the goalie." I don't hate on the goalie either though. I think there's usually a lot of things that happen before a goal is scored but only 1 guy on the ice has stats that keep track of those things and he wears the biggest pads. But none the less, I tend to just leave it as it is and say hey, I would've liked to see the goalies stop more. Who wouldn't?

Tonight is literally the first game all year where I feel fairly comfortable saying that there's nothing any goalie could've done on almost every goal scored tonight sans the last couple scored on both goalies once the thing was already emotionally a trainwreck and very much over. You can barely even count those against the goalie at that point. But getting there? Sorry, again, go review those goals and tell me Luongo's even going to make a quarter of those saves on a great night.

It ain't happening.

Osgood's got plenty of s***ty games under his belt this year where he deserved to be ragged on. This was absolutely not one of them.

Chris OsGod might not have given up the most absolute s*** "from the corner behind the net" gift gaffe goals tonight but plenty of the goals were stoppable. Let's look at what a shot is. If the goalie can reach the shot, couldn't he have stopped it? The fact is, he just wasn't quick enough...several pucks found their way THROUGH Osgood tonight, or were within his reach. He could've stopped them but didn't. He is not good enough to do that. A breakaway goal? Every goalie has a chance. 7 pucks in 40 minutes? Not good enough. Babs left him in because there's only so much you can do for a player. Pull him. Give him time off. Talk to him privately. Talk about him publicly. Osgood hasn't responded to a single thing. He sucks, get over it and move on.

[Zetterling 16]

I agree the defeatist attitude from a loss after we've seen this team beat the Sharks 6-0 doesn't do any good. Babcock was pairing the D differently and the first two goals were epic tip ins. Ozzy wasn't getting help from the D. The offense was shut down also. Just hoping the team can get first in the conference to avoid playing Calgary potentially in the second round. That team gets dirty in the playoffs!

[Guest MrSandMan]

When was the last time a "team" with the worst save percentage and 2nd worst goals against average won the Stanley Cup?

I honestly don't think Wings will win the cup again this year, and I said this before they even started the season. It's tough for a team to win the cup back to back and even tougher to win it in the cap era.

If they do somehow magically pull it off, I will be a very happy fan!

All I ask for is a decent playoff run, and hopefully make it to the WCF so we can watch lots of hockey.

P.S. if any team can pull of a back to back cup win, it is the Detroit Red Wings.

[gcom007 1,465]

When was the last time a "team" with the worst save percentage and 2nd worst goals against average won the Stanley Cup?

When was the last time a team won the Cup when they give up as many breakaways and odd man rushes as we do and turned over the puck as many times as we do in our zone right in front of the net even? Not to mention all the guys that love to park in front of our nets and go completely untouched and unnoticed by our defense. Also, let's not forget the wonderful ability to completely fail to clear the puck time after time even when given time and space.

How many teams like that have won the Cup???

[ben_usmc 253]

Not successful? He went to the Islanders, a bottom of the barrel team who placed last or close to it the year before and put up better individual numbers than he did in Detroit and carried them on his back into the playoffs. What, he didn't win a Cup so he's not successful? That's about the only way you can say it because by any other measurement, he looked great personally among the otherwise atrocious Islanders. He had a rough stretch in St. Louis where some injuries shook him up a bit and he got off his game, but he came around and many players cited him as one of the key difference makers in them finding any success at all.

How many Cups has Luongo won? Has he not been very successful because he hasn't won a Cup? Hell, he's only won one damn playoff series and has made the playoffs once. Even Osgood managed to carry the Islanders into the playoffs and again, you're talking about a last place level team 00/01. But hey, we gotta get rid of Rafalski and so and so so we can sign someone like Luongo who knows how to win.

Right.

I know y'all think it's so fun to hate on Osgood and you think you're so smart in doing so, but all you really do is prove how ignorant you are. The more you say, the sillier you look. Osgood has not looked like even a shadow the goalie he was last year, but even if he did, or even if we had Luongo, games like this would still be happening with a defense as horrible as ours has looked in some of these games. It doesn't matter who's in net if we can't get the defense straightened out. That's the bottom line. It is absolutely concern #1 for this hockey club. I think everyone in the organization will tell you the same thing without thinking twice as well.

Oh yes some of us are willing to watch our team fail just so we can say Osgood failed, get over yourself man. I could careless who is in net IF THEY ARE PLAYING DECENT. Ozzy has sucked so we won't someone who doesn't.

[gcom007 1,465]

Chris OsGod might not have given up the most absolute s*** "from the corner behind the net" gift gaffe goals tonight but plenty of the goals were stoppable. Let's look at what a shot is. If the goalie can reach the shot, couldn't he have stopped it? The fact is, he just wasn't quick enough...several pucks found their way THROUGH Osgood tonight, or were within his reach. He could've stopped them but didn't. He is not good enough to do that. A breakaway goal? Every goalie has a chance. 7 pucks in 40 minutes? Not good enough. Babs left him in because there's only so much you can do for a player. Pull him. Give him time off. Talk to him privately. Talk about him publicly. Osgood hasn't responded to a single thing. He sucks, get over it and move on.

Well, like I said, even the media people who love to crucify goalies, especially Osgood, aren't pissed at Osgood tonight. It's not like anyone's happy with him, but most fans that watch a full game in motion across the entire sheet of ice are way too busy steaming about the defense right now to even think about Osgood. If 5 of the goals he let in were soft, the defense still played far worse. That is what you're not getting. And call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure defense and goals against oftentimes go hand in hand.

And move on from what? What's a better idea? Just hate on him? He's our goalie for the playoffs like it or not and despite what you're narrow perspective leads you to believe, all things considered, he's still our best shot at a Cup. He has more potential to be the guy realized or not. So pardon me for being so bat-crazy by not totally throwing the guy under the bus who won a Cup for us in brilliant fashion 9 months ago especially when there are other major problems with this team that need to be fixed.

And Osgood's responded to plenty. Again, it might not be at the pace you like, but he has shown signs of improvement as this season's gone on. In the 2 games where he actually had teams in front of him, he did everything necessary. I think he'll be fine in his next start as well so long as the team actually shows up to play. He won't be the reason we lose in the playoffs. I can pretty much guarantee you that. Time will tell. But I'm usually right.

[Vladifan 680]

Good post. Because of his small stature and lack of confidence this year, he's been coming farther out of the goal. So when these deflections go in that are "not Osgood's fault"....many other goalies may have made the save. The fact is that Osgood's rebound control and positioning has been off all year, and its making him give up goals that "look" like they aren't his fault, but most other goalies in the league would.

Do you guys really think we have the WORST defense in the league? Then why is Osgood at the bottom of the league statistically.

BTW:

Canucks up 1-0

Uh. When Jim Bedard worked with Ozzie during those ten days off, one of the main reasons was to remind him to come out further from the goal. He said it. Mickey said it. Everybody who knew anything about Ozzie's main problem said it. That Ozzie wasn't trusting his D (HAH!) enough to come out more and cut off the angles. Helluva lotta good that did on at least the first three goals, eh?

But it's OK. With any luck at all, Babsy'll start listening to you FWF's and Conklin will be in net; Ozzie'll go down to GR and Whoever will come up and he'll play just great too because he'll have all that consistent talent in front of him. And Babsy will just nod and smile every fricking time the D can't clear the zone or stay on their men, or give up more breakaways, or not be near the net to help guard it or stop deflections...and I'm sure he'll just do a little dance everytime the forwards lose the puck, lose their man, don't screen the goalie, and just keep playing their Every-Man-For-Himself-kind of game. And by God, he will have listened to you and not to almost everyone else in the professional hockey world who says that all the Wings' play pretty much generally sucks right now. What do they know? Right?!

Of course if more players keep breaking their sticks over their frustration about their own rotten play, well now that could get kind of expensive. But I'm sure you all have an answer for that too. Probably bill the expenses to Ozzie, huh.

[gcom007 1,465]

Oh yes some of us are willing to watch our team fail just so we can say Osgood failed, get over yourself man. I could careless who is in net IF THEY ARE PLAYING DECENT. Ozzy has sucked so we won't someone who doesn't.

You're not getting anyone new at this point! Why don't you try making the best of it in the meantime then, eh!? Novel idea.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Wings suck. The whole team, that is, not just the goalies.

/thread

[Lovin Jiri Fischer 147]

Thoughts after tonight's game:

Our incredible offense bailing us out night after night at the start of the season has finally caught up with us. This is what happens in games where we turn into "average/normal" offense and can't score 5+ goals every night.

I love Ozzie a lot. I have loved him since I was a tiny child. However, if he wants to be a Stanley Cup winning goalie again, he's gonna have to learn how to bail out his team when the defense is terrible. That is a goalie's job-to be the last resort of defense. We should not be able to call a goal on a breakaway before he even shoots. Even Dom stopped those.

I don't care that Conklin is a career backup. So was Ozzie for the majority of his career and he got us two Cups. I don't understand how people still want Ozzie in net in spite of his obvious decline from last year. But at the same time, these same people are worried about Conklin not performing well in the playoffs when he hasn't really given us a reason to doubt him so far this season. It blows my mind.

Back at the first half of the season everyone said we would be fine and to not worry until March. It is now March, yet it still isn't appropriate to worry because we are "fair weather fans." So when exactly is it okay to start worrying? When we are down three games to one in the first round?

Watchmen wasn't really that good.

[Guest MrSandMan]

Wings suck. The whole team, that is, not just the goalies.

/thread

I like you can make the perfect point with only a few words. You're post is spot on!

Why can't everyone else get it? Why do (some) fans need to pin a loss solely onto one person as if they single handedly lost the entire game - cut/dry ?

In the first 2-5 minutes of last night's game, I knew the team didn't show up... It was destined to end in failure at first puck drop. Nobody dressed up in red & white with hockey skates come to play. While the CBJ were firing on all 8 cyl. and were physically and mentally ready to play the sleeping Red Wings.

Wake up Detroit, the "Stanley Cup hangover" is only in your head... They can overcome this, I know they can. They prove it whenever they play a game they give a s*** about, they dominate.

[gcom007 1,465]

You people need to realize there's a difference between bailing out a defense that makes a few sloppy mistakes here and there or has a bad period or 2 and bailing out a defense that does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help. Hell, Rafalski might as well have picked up the puck and thrown it in his own net on the 3rd goal. Again, there is absolutely no way that any goalie that's ever played is going to win games like tonight and last Saturday. No way. No goalie in the league on a great night wins those games or changes them in any dramatic manner. It has nothing to do with Osgood or Conklin and everything to do with how horrendously bad the 18 other guys on the ice played.

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?A.../903070439/1128

"The defending Stanley Cup champions had a total of 14 giveaways and left the ice to booing from the home fans.

"We were skating around in our jerseys thinking we could win a game without showing up," Osgood said. "That's not how the Red Wings are supposed to be. We deserved it.

"After getting beat the last two Saturdays, 16-2, it's unacceptable. Of course, they're going to boo the way we performed."

The rout came one week after another embarrassing loss, 8-0, to the Nashville Predators.

"If we're hitting, driving the net, working hard, not giving pucks away and we lose, (the fans) accept that. I mean, we're going to lose games. But the way we played tonight is unacceptable. At home, it's embarrassing."

Henrik Zetterberg called the performance "disgusting."

"Humbling to say the least," said coach Mike Babcock.

Defenseman Brian Rafalski, who received an award before the game as the team's top player in February, had two dreadful miscues that led to goals. The Blue Jackets also took advantage of turnovers by Zetterberg, Brett Lebda and Pavel Datsyuk..

"We left our goalie hung out to dry," Babcock said.

The Wings were just awful defensively."

[BlueMonk 102]

When was the last time a "team" with the worst save percentage and 2nd worst goals against average won the Stanley Cup?

Not sure about the save % stat, but I can tell you that the only team that comes close in the past 30 years was the 1992 Pittsburgh Penguins. They were 20th in a 22 team league in team GAA and still won the Cup with the #1 ranked offense.

Other than that, hardly any team that didn't finish in the top 10 of GAA went on to win the Cup. So it's a pretty bad omen.

[Guest MrSandMan]

Nice to see the team takes responsibility and admits they left the "goalie out to dry".