The misconception that Datsyuk and Zetterberg are equal

[Hossa7.4 0]

Some things you left out though:

Toughness = Datsyuk

Durability = Datsyuk

Most Difficult to Knock Off Skates = Zetterberg

Clutch Factor = Zetterberg

Datsyuk's regular season gear is phenominal, but if he could show that he has another Helm-like gear in the playoffs, he'd leave no doubt in any Red Wings fan's mind that he is the best player on the team. So far, his invisibility on the score sheet in the playoffs has hurt his rep. A lot of fans see through this and see that he is drawing double teams and getting marked every shift by the Ducks' best players. A lot of fans don't. It's a good debate.

yeah, I guess you're right, ever since 2003 he's never really produced in the PO's, of course no wing produced when they were getting bounced in the first and second rounds so he got a UN-deserved rep for not producing and all the Zata fanboys and girls love to erroniously go back to it like moths to a flame.

it's too bad he's "invisible" now, when he's wining more draws, better takeaway ratio, outhitting, he really is "invisible".

[Red4wings4life 0]

a bunch of people with internet access know better than the players. Why does everybody assume Pavel isn't a leader. You don't really know a subjective thing like this.

because Pavel doesn't say alot doesn't mean he's not a good leader, you must not have thought Yzerman was a good leader b/c he didn't say alot either.

You do not have to say alot to be a good captain, Did I say that Pavel isn't a good leader because he is quite? No I did not.

You can watch the leadership of Zetterberg every game. Watch how he plays, watch what he does. He is more of a leader then Datsyuk.

Also Yes Zetterberg is a better passer, Datsyuk is a good passer but Zetterberg is a better passer. Datsyuk has a better shot and puck control skills.

Both are great players and I love watching both of them, so really who is better does not matter to me. If I was forced to pick one or the other for a team I am starting, then I pick Zetterberg.

[RedWings 79]

Love the topic... : )

I think Datsyuk has the edge because he is not as injury proned as Zetterberg.

Dats is another Lidstrom... he never misses a game.

During some streaks Zetterberg can outplay Datsyuk.

Also, i believe Datsyuk gets less penalty minutes... I never see the guy in the penalty box

I would be really negative about Z concerning his beginning of playoff, but since the 2 last games, we are back to the good old Z.

I just love when he starts skating and crashing the net holding his stick with one hand and protecting the puck... Something he was not doing during the whole season !

Edited May 11, 2009 by RedWings

[Rick 42]

are you kidding?

kidding about what? My opinion or Zetterberg being a coach's son?

[Red4wings4life 0]

yeah, I guess you're right, ever since 2003 he's never really produced in the PO's, of course no wing produced when they were getting bounced in the first and second rounds so he got a UN-deserved rep for not producing and all the Zata fanboys and girls love to erroniously go back to it like moths to a flame.

it's too bad he's "invisible" now, when he's wining more draws, better takeaway ratio, outhitting, he really is "invisible".

Zetterberg has a point in every playoff game this year except one.

Again, overall I would pick Zetterberg for my team if I were to pick a team. Sure Datsyuk is a great player and it is a tough choice but the leadership that Zetterberg can bring to the table is the difference.

[Gordie Howe hat trick 110]

You do not have to say alot to be a good captain, Did I say that Pavel isn't a good leader because he is quite? No I did not.

You can watch the leadership of Zetterberg every game. Watch how he plays, watch what he does. He is more of a leader then Datsyuk.

Also Yes Zetterberg is a better passer, Datsyuk is a good passer but Zetterberg is a better passer. Datsyuk has a better shot and puck control skills.

Both are great players and I love watching both of them, so really who is better does not matter to me. If I was forced to pick one or the other for a team I am starting, then I pick Zetterberg.

I second this motion.

[ComradeWasabi 109]

Also Yes Zetterberg is a better passer, Datsyuk is a good passer but Zetterberg is a better passer. Datsyuk has a better shot and puck control skills.

I have no clue where you got this idea from. There is a reason that Pavel has had around 15 more assists than Hank every year since the lockout.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

This thread is sad - Wings fans arguing over who is the better Red Wing - Datsyuk or Zetterberg..

Reminds me of the Yzerman vs. Fedorov rounds....

They are both great players and both are locked in as Red Wings so that makes me very happy - I love both of them. I cannot fathom watching the Wings with only one of those guys on the team - and hope I never have to. We are spoiled as Wings fans, I think I'll just enjoy it....

[Jake Ryan 1]

yeah, I guess you're right, ever since 2003 he's never really produced in the PO's, of course no wing produced when they were getting bounced in the first and second rounds so he got a UN-deserved rep for not producing and all the Zata fanboys and girls love to erroniously go back to it like moths to a flame.

it's too bad he's "invisible" now, when he's wining more draws, better takeaway ratio, outhitting, he really is "invisible".

Preaching to the choir, dude. And Pavel's being followed around by Ninety-SUX all playoff long. As soon as Babcock pulls his head out and demotes Homer to the 4th line and brings up Helm to add some speed to the Datsyuk/Zetterberg line, it's lights out for all opponents.

Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Helm

Hossa-Filppula-Franzen

Hudler-Draper-Cleary

Holmstrom-Abdelkader-Samuelsson

Come on Coach. Make it happen.

[Red4wings4life 0]

I have no clue where you got this idea from. There is a reason that Pavel has had around 15 more assists than Hank every year since the lockout.

Points are not the only measuring stick. Just because Pavel sets up more goals then Zetterberg does not mean he is a better passer. Watch Zetterberg coming though the netural zone, watch Zetterberg in his own zone. Watch him pass the puck.

He has better vision then Datsyuk and can make tougher passes. Again Pavel is a good playmaker but Zetterberg is a little bit better.

Datsyuk has a better shot and more creativity with the puck but Zetterberg is better at passing, its not a knock on Pavel.

Just like Kronwall is a good defensemen but Lidstrom is better.

[ComradeWasabi 109]

Points are not the only measuring stick. Just because Pavel sets up more goals then Zetterberg does not mean he is a better passer. Watch Zetterberg coming though the netural zone, watch Zetterberg in his own zone. Watch him pass the puck.

He has better vision then Datsyuk and can make tougher passes. Again Pavel is a good playmaker but Zetterberg is a little bit better.

Datsyuk has a better shot and more creativity with the puck but Zetterberg is better at passing, its not a knock on Pavel.

Just like Kronwall is a good defensemen but Lidstrom is better.

It's hard to judge their play right now as Zetterberg is playing better by a pretty wide margin. That said, having watched the two of them very closely over the last couple years I have to disagree with saying Hank is a better passer.

Agree to disagree I guess.

[Namingway 146]

DATSYUK CAN'T BE AN EXCEPTION?

Sorry, he's no Stevie Y, yet.

WHICH ONES ARE THOSE?

Leadership. The ability to rally the team on his own, also to play in the playoffs with a broken knee, also to score clutch goals in double OT when they're needed the most. If you really think Pavs has the same leadership qualities as Stevie then I'd like to have whatever you're smoking.

TEAM GAME. LIDSTROM IS A QUITE CAPTAIN AND THEY WON THE CUP, MAYBE THE WINGS ARE BETTER THAN THE SENS. YA THINK?

lol wut? I never said a team can't win the cup with a quiet captain. Lidstrom's english is fluent and he's a lot more vocal than Datsyuk by far. I'm sure he has the ability to make awesome speeches in the locker room to get the guys going. With Pavel, I'm not too sure whether he could pull it off as well as Lids can. If you paid attention to the Sens last year, that's what they needed from their captain which he failed to do.

Let's not forget that Lidstrom spent a lot more time with Yzerman and learned a lot about how to be a good captain. Datsyuk didn't spend nearly as much time with him. Maybe over time Dats will become better at that after spending more time with Lidstrom.

also,

Edited May 11, 2009 by Namingway

[pirateasaurus 0]

Why are people arguing over which of 2 players on our team that any other team would murder to have are better? Hossa7.4 acts like Hank throttled his girlfriend and sister.

[Jake Ryan 1]

Points are not the only measuring stick. Just because Pavel sets up more goals then Zetterberg does not mean he is a better passer. Watch Zetterberg coming though the netural zone, watch Zetterberg in his own zone. Watch him pass the puck.

He has better vision then Datsyuk and can make tougher passes. Again Pavel is a good playmaker but Zetterberg is a little bit better.

Datsyuk has a better shot and more creativity with the puck but Zetterberg is better at passing, its not a knock on Pavel.

Just like Kronwall is a good defensemen but Lidstrom is better.

Dats:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5BuBNM9tJc...feature=related

And Now Z:

These guys are both just sick.

[Namingway 146]

Love the topic... : )

I think Datsyuk has the edge because he is not as injury proned as Zetterberg.

Dats is another Lidstrom... he never misses a game.

During some streaks Zetterberg can outplay Datsyuk.

Also, i believe Datsyuk gets less penalty minutes... I never see the guy in the penalty box

I would be really negative about Z concerning his beginning of playoff, but since the 2 last games, we are back to the good old Z.

I just love when he starts skating and crashing the net holding his stick with one hand and protecting the puck... Something he was not doing during the whole season !

Stevie Y was also injury prone

You do make good points though, it also made me happy too to see Z doing the whole crashing the net holding his stick with one hand while protecting the puck

[dat's sick 1,002]

so then why hasn't he won the Selke or been nominated?

...he was nominated last year.

[Ryan Getzlaf 0]

This is why I love this topic, its like Yzerman vs Fedorov but better because..

1. Pavel is a Selke winner, probably twice over

2. Pavel isn't a "greedy Russian", even though that "Greedy Canadian" Joe Sakic was higher paid and held out for more money than Fedorov did. Not to mention Yzerman was paid $8 million a season to play the role of a shutdown center.

Datsyuk just produced 2 back to back 97 point, Selke winning seasons. This isn't Pahlsson vs Datsyuk, Z and D are nearly identical players in role, minutes and linemates.

Datsyuk is better defensively and can score a 100 points playing with anyone on the team. The same can't be said for Zetterberg.

The funny thing about Smythe voting is that Franzen could cool off for the next two rounds, Datsyuk could find his game and win the Smythe. Datsyuk was our best forward in the Nashville and Dallas series last season, Franzen was the best in the Colorado series and Zetterberg was the best in the Pittsburgh series. Its just a case of "What have you done for me lately" with the Smythe, unless you outscored your competition by a ton of points.

Yzerman = Zetterberg

Fedorov = Datsyuk

I'll take the Russians, even if they're greedy and can't lead a team to squat, this team never won a cup without Datsyuk or Fedorov on the top of their games.

The phrase "Leadership" is the last Zetterberg fans can hold onto to even make the argument relevant. Dats outscored Zetterberg by 20 points this year. Change the argument to "Datsyuk vs Spezza, Kovalchuk, Getzlaf" basically any other top tier non-Wing and it would be a landslide.

Zetterberg is the golden boy... Datsyuk could score 130 points, win a Hart and the majority of fans would say he blows and hes no better than Cleary because they only look at stats.

[ComradeWasabi 109]

I think equating Z to Stevie or Pavel to Fedorov are both gross generalizations.

By the way, interesting user name...

[norrisnick 1]

This is why I love this topic, its like Yzerman vs Fedorov but better because..

1. Pavel is a Selke winner, probably twice over

2. Pavel isn't a "greedy Russian", even though that "Greedy Canadian" Joe Sakic was higher paid and held out for more money than Fedorov did. Not to mention Yzerman was paid $8 million a season to play the role of a shutdown center.

Datsyuk just produced 2 back to back 97 point, Selke winning seasons. This isn't Pahlsson vs Datsyuk, Z and D are nearly identical players in role, minutes and linemates.

Datsyuk is better defensively and can score a 100 points playing with anyone on the team. The same can't be said for Zetterberg.

The funny thing about Smythe voting is that Franzen could cool off for the next two rounds, Datsyuk could find his game and win the Smythe. Datsyuk was our best forward in the Nashville and Dallas series last season, Franzen was the best in the Colorado series and Zetterberg was the best in the Pittsburgh series. Its just a case of "What have you done for me lately" with the Smythe, unless you outscored your competition by a ton of points.

Yzerman = Zetterberg

Fedorov = Datsyuk

I'll take the Russians, even if they're greedy and can't lead a team to squat, this team never won a cup without Datsyuk or Fedorov on the top of their games.

The phrase "Leadership" is the last Zetterberg fans can hold onto to even make the argument relevant. Dats outscored Zetterberg by 20 points this year. Change the argument to "Datsyuk vs Spezza, Kovalchuk, Getzlaf" basically any other top tier non-Wing and it would be a landslide.

Zetterberg is the golden boy... Datsyuk could score 130 points, win a Hart and the majority of fans would say he blows and hes no better than Cleary because they only look at stats.

Because that's all that has ever mattered for you.

[Kwame_Kilpatrick 0]

datsyuk is better by far. he is one of the five best players in the world and maybe zeta is top 20 but he just is not on pavels level. he is only good with pavel because he feels more comfortable so he tries more tricks

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

Preaching to the choir, dude. And Pavel's being followed around by Ninety-SUX all playoff long. As soon as Babcock pulls his head out and demotes Homer to the 4th line and brings up Helm to add some speed to the Datsyuk/Zetterberg line, it's lights out for all opponents.

This is one of those cases where Wings fans make me sad. Homer has a role to play - of course he is not Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Funny how people forget how pivotal Homer has been in many PO runs - 2002 (had a great year), 2007, 2008, etc. His job is not to provide PO reel highlights but to make the opposing goalie's life tough. I think it is fair to say he is among the best in the league at that. Sure he is near the end of his career as a Red Wing. And now some people would like to toss him under the bus... nice.

[Hossa7.4 0]

Because that's all that has ever mattered for you.

actually I think he gives a very well thought response. The "Pavel people" have used alot of logic, stats, and facts to back up their opinions. I don't see that with the Zetterberg people. Alot of emotional rhetoric but nothing else.

Look, it's real simple, Zetterberg is favored by the majority here, everybody knows it, he's simply got more fans on LGW but it doesn't mean he's the better player.

I don't know how a guy who wins the Selke, nominated for the Hart and Pearson and puts up 97 points back to back playing with anyone while taking literaly half as less shots as Ovekchin isn't the best all around player in the league. Consider all the Byngs , his less PIMs than Z, his takeaways, p/m ratio, and it's even more impressive.

his plus/minus is +34 3rd in the league, Zetterberg isn't even top 30

his FO % , 9th in the league, Zetterberg is 20th in the league

more Hits than Zetterberg,

more games played each seson,

second in the league in Takeaways, Zetterberg not even in the top 30 in the league

and I don't understand the debate.

but he's a greedy Russian who never could produce in the playoffs , especially when we were getting bounced in the first and second rounds and nobody else was scoring. He got the big contract sooner than Zetterberg despite the fact that he's been a Wing longer but hey, just another greedy Russian.

[VM1138 1,921]

I think Zetterberg and Datsyuk are Yzerman and Federov reincarnated. Datsyuk is probably better, but not by all that much, which makes it okay to say they're essentially equal. Zetterberg is still a beast and one of the top players in the game.

EDIT: Although I think Datsyuk is naturally more well loved among fans and within the team. He seems to have no ego and is just one of those lovable quirky guys with a great attitude. The guy is the best in the world essentially and he takes it in stride. No crying and depression like Crosby experiences, no excessive flamboyancy like Ovechkin.

Edited May 12, 2009 by VM1138

[norrisnick 1]

actually I think he gives a very well thought response. The "Pavel people" have used alot of logic, stats, and facts to back up their opinions. I don't see that with the Zetterberg people. Alot of emotional rhetoric but nothing else.

Look, it's real simple, Zetterberg is favored by the majority here, everybody knows it, he's simply got more fans on LGW but it doesn't mean he's the better player.

I don't know how a guy who wins the Selke, nominated for the Hart and Pearson and puts up 97 points back to back playing with anyone while taking literaly half as less shots as Ovekchin isn't the best all around player in the league. Consider all the Byngs , his less PIMs than Z, his takeaways, p/m ratio, and it's even more impressive.

his plus/minus is +34 3rd in the league, Zetterberg isn't even top 30

his FO % , 9th in the league, Zetterberg is 20th in the league

more Hits than Zetterberg,

more games played each seson,

second in the league in Takeaways, Zetterberg not even in the top 30 in the league

and I don't understand the debate.

but he's a greedy Russian who never could produce in the playoffs , especially when we were getting bounced in the first and second rounds and nobody else was scoring. He got the big contract sooner than Zetterberg despite the fact that he's been a Wing longer but hey, just another greedy Russian.

This debate with "Ryan Getzlaf" has been going on since the moment Z and Pavel joined the Wings. He's probably gone through close to 30 usernames by now. It may seem all nicely reasoned, but the heart of the matter is a grudge because most Wing fans loved Yzerman more than Fedorov (ironically I prefer Fedorov myself). He's drawing the parallels because it seems fans are drawn more to Z than Pavel. He trots out all the tired stereotypes rather than accept that it can be a matter of preference. And that it isn't definitively proven that Datsyuk is the better player. IMO he shouldn't have won the Selke last season. And he shouldn't this year. He's not the best defensive forward on the Wings. The voters don't always get it right (see Green being nominated for the Norris, let alone winning it as he more than likely will).

Stats don't tell the whole story. They never do. But if you're hung up on stats, look at the ones from April on. The ones when the games really matter.

[Phazon 24]

datsyuk is better by far. he is one of the five best players in the world and maybe zeta is top 20 but he just is not on pavels level. he is only good with pavel because he feels more comfortable so he tries more tricks

if that's the case then why does dats only have 4p in playoffs so far and 1 assist on an empty netter in the ducks series? If not for Franzen's heroics against the ducks, datsuyk would be called out for his playoffs this year. shouldnt mr Hart Candidate raise his game in the playoffs?

imo datsyuk has played too fancy in the post season.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Phazon