3/29 GDT: Predators 4 at Red Wings 3

[HOCKEY MATTERS 167]

The thing many of you are failing to see or admit is that even if we had Luongo on his A-Game, we're screwed with a defense playing like this. It is COMPLETELY ridiculous to expect the goalie to make the save on some of these plays the defense have let happen.

When you've got guys standing alone in front of the net, you're bound to get scored on because the goalies got to stay square to the play and if a quick pass makes it to the guy by the net, it's over. Nothing the goalie can do. The defensemen should've been knocking that guy on his ass. But it hasn't happened over and over this year.

When you give up breakaways and odd man rushes over and over because of stupid turnovers and don't hustle back, there's only so much any goalie can do. ANY goalie. The greatest goalies.

When you blindly throw the puck up the middle or right at opposing players (all the while other opposing players skate around uncovered) you're bound to get scored on.

No goalie is going to save us from all those stupid plays. Our record would be tremendously worse if we had more average goal scoring. Think as if we didn't have Hossa and his 30-something goals, we'd likely be toast in many of these games. Both goalies have had to deal with it all season and even though Conklin has better stats, at the end of the day, both goalies have won and lost at a similar rate. That says a lot.

Again, bottom line, our D needs to pick it up. We're toast if they don't. It doesn't matter who our goalie is, Osgood, Conklin, Luongo, Sawchuck...we're toast if the D plays as they have this season. If they can pick it up, we're going to win the Cup even if Osgood plays as he did at his worst this season. The D is the make it or break it of this team right now.

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Hope I don't sound too much like a yepping dog.

[gcom007 1,465]

Malick's thoughts sum up some other elements of the problem. I like the "I'm not taking the #30 way out on this one..." too. It's easy to bash the goalies but if you look at the big picture it's just a silly thing to do.

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/03/re...dators_p_1.html

"The Smithson goal was soft, but Ward's goal went through three Red Wings, as did Suter's post-pinging perfect shot. Sullivan's early goal involved an open man beating a goaltender to the post. I'm not taking the #30 way out on this one...

But the fact that the Wings went 0-for-3 in 5:31 of 5-on-4 power play time, gave up 14 third-period shots after holding the Predators to 3 in the second period, and the fact that the Wings held a lead in this game for just over 16 minutes over the past 120 is a big concern. Despite five shots apiece from Zetterberg, Marian Hossa, Mikael Samuelsson, a superb 2-assist performance from a dominant Nicklas Lidstrom, an ironically superb game by Chelios, who played 14:41, and winning the faceoff battle 39 to 32 against a team that's dominated Detroit over the first four games of the series...The fact that the Wings had 15 shot attempts blocked and missed the net another 16 times despite putting 36 on Rinne stings, as does the fact that the Wings seem so damn content to play the perimeter, loop back and over-pass in attempts to make the perfect artistic play, and take single, un-screened, un-tipped shots with rebounds which they don't pursue in any attempt to sustain pressure or generate second or third opportunities.

I don't feel any need to bail off the Wings' bandwagon for this loss, but I do believe that fans, including myself, have every reason to be plain old pissed off because this team remains too convinced that they "dominate" games where they're plain outworked, out-competed, and simply seem far too content to play out the string, especially when they can but don't take advantage of extended power play time. I can't describe this game any further without using expletives to express my frustration, so I'll leave it at that. This one needs a day or two to sit and ferment before anybody pushes the panic button--though liberal use of the "concern" button is encouraged."

[Guest mindfly]

Actually i really don't care tbh... Ozzie is my favorite Wing and I enjoy watching him play night in and night out despite his ups and downs. Seeing 4 cups in my lifetime is way more than most can ever hope to accomplish so really i am very content now with just watching my favorites play. I am a fan of the sport itself and the game. Having your childhood home town team win it all is quite nice, don't get me wrong. But at this stage in my life and the recent success the wings have had on a season to season basis... its time for me to enjoy whats left of my favorites careers.

Personally I do feel everything is going to be okay, i am not going to be two-faced about it.... Seeing Ozzie in the games makes me happy... personally i was more scared the last few seasons with hasek in net than i ever was with ozzie in net.

Call me a fan of a specific player or whatnot... i consider myself a fan of the game as a whole. winning is nice but it sure as hell isnt everything to me. I would rather watch a losing season with a team i care about then a winning season with a bunch of guys i don't care about. aka i don't jump ship just because my players are having a rough season... for better or for worse, right?

What is all this none sense about an upgraded goalie? do you have such a short term memory that you fail to see our over paid (cujo) and the best goalie in all of hockey (hasek) still produced the same amount of cups of as say the scum-bag Ozzie????????

Joseph was a miserable goalie

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Joseph was a miserable goalie

You just know so much about hockey, mindfly. You teach us all.

[Guest mindfly]

I knooooooooooow

[Guest Shoreline]

The people all over Ozzie about stats would then be oozing all over Cujo's stats with the Wings. 2.08 and 1.39 GAA in the playoffs. Wow. But some people haven't figured out something, those begging for Luongo or Cujo or other unproven goalies -- they don't have cup winning experience. Babcock trusts this goalie, and his trust in the goalie means far more than monday morning quarterbacks, like up above ^, who just started watching hockey 10 months ago and suddenly is an expert.

[Rivalred 630]

Joseph was a miserable goalie

You are wrong. How you survived so long on this site amazes me.

[OsGOD 3]

Joseph was a miserable goalie

Tee-hee thanks i needed that chuckle with all the news about GM and Chrysler today i needed a laugh.

so please don't bust a spleen worrying right now... save it till the post season... I need your insight to get through the days now!!!

[Guest mindfly]

Okkkk rick nash

[The Secret 304]

The people all over Ozzie about stats would then be oozing all over Cujo's stats with the Wings. 2.08 and 1.39 GAA in the playoffs. Wow. But some people haven't figured out something, those begging for Luongo or Cujo or other unproven goalies -- they don't have cup winning experience. Babcock trusts this goalie, and his trust in the goalie means far more than monday morning quarterbacks, like up above ^, who just started watching hockey 10 months ago and suddenly is an expert.

Osgood was unproven in the play offs at one point in time too. He was just lucky enough to play for a team that made the play offs alot. Besides that his play off past can do nothing to correct the garbage he is playing right NOW. He has been nothing but a great backup or a mediocre starter his entire career and right now I would settle for that because he isn't even close to being either of the 2.

Anyway, I would take an unproven Luongo any day over a 3 time cup winning Osgood. Luongo is in a totally different class then Osgood, there is no comparison... And Cujo was not a miserable goalie, he was a great goalie who got bum rushed here in Detroit.

Edited March 30, 2009 by The Secret

[clutchngrab 12]

What is really sad is that we do not even need an elite level Goalie to win it all... Osgood proved it again last year. Last season Osgood played adequate enough and even had it in him to steal 1 or 2 games.... thats all we need from him just to be consistently average, like his entire career. But this year is a totally different story. I hope he can play well enough but there is not even a sign to build hope on. And there are still Osgood lovers blaming everything except for the one person responsible for it all... Chris Osgood, he is to blame. It's not our Defense, although they are not up to the norm for what we are used to seeing they are still better then most. Put Osgood on just about any other team in the league and he is setting new records for the worst season ever by an NHL goalie. If he is this bad on the 2nd best team in the league he would have been tombstoned along side Legace if he were still in St. Louis. A bad game here or there is to be expected but this year he has had a good game or 2 and the rest have been terrible to say it nicely.

:clap:

And Conklin is perfectly capable of assuming that role.

Edited March 30, 2009 by clutchngrab

[Dano33 41]

:clap:

And Conklin is perfectly capable of assuming that role.

Just curious, what makes you think that? (don't answer if you are just going to post regular season numbers)

[Guest Shoreline]

Osgood was unproven in the play offs at one point in time too. He was just lucky enough to play for a team that made the play offs alot. Besides that his play off past can do nothing to correct the garbage he is playing right NOW. He has been nothing but a great backup or a mediocre starter his entire career and right now I would settle for that because he isn't even close to being either of the 2.

Anyway, I would take an unproven Luongo any day over a 3 time cup winning Osgood. Luongo is in a totally different class then Osgood, there is no comparison... And Cujo was not a miserable goalie, he was a great goalie who got bum rushed here in Detroit.

You would take unproven talent, but I'd take proven talent that wins championships. If it weren't for Osgood, this team would not have the opportunity to win back to backs. Simple as that. Create any scenario you like with other goalies, but this is reality.

Regarding Cujo, it wasn't that he was a miserable goalie. He just couldn't win any championships. And that's the bottom line. The controversy started in his second season, not first. Wings fans back when he was signed had this sort of cautious optimism and it stems from people who have long careers without championships leading a team. Initially it was the same way for Hasek but he proved himself rather quickly. Cujo did not. Osgood has long proven himself as capable goaltender and it's shown with 2 cups in the last 11 years with him as a starter. I'll always go with proven talent in crucial times.

I am in general a big fan of statistics, but I know the limitation of using them. They help tell a story, and form some of the facts. Using goal statistics, it seems like Jokenin in Calgary is a huge success... you know, until you look at their W/L record since he's shown up.

So what can we see about Osgood this year? Clearly, his statistics are horrible. But we have to couple that with actually watching the games. As of late, and the stats back this up, Ozzie has been playing better. I believe March is his only sub-3.00 GA and plus-.900 S% month of the year. He's improved over earlier in the season and I see him allowing far fewer bad goals.

The problem is that he's been playing OK, but not great. Overall, I see the issue on a comfort level. Last year, regardless of what the statistics were, I felt really comfortable with any game Ozzie started, and I felt uncomfortable in any game Hasek started. This year, I'm uncomfortable seeing Ozzie and comfortable seeing Conklin. Do I just have unrealistic expectations of the starters? No... they just aren't/weren't passing the smell test. I do not feel confident in not only how Ozzie plays this year, but also how the rest of the TEAM plays with him in net. I sense that there are far more breakdowns when Ozzie plays.

I support Osgood and I won't be terribly upset if he starts Game 1 of the first round. But I will be upset if Babcock doesn't keep the quick hook when necessary. Last year it wasn't necessarily that Hasek sucked in the playoffs... Babcock just said, "The puck needs to not go into our net." The team wasn't playing great with him too. This year, if the same occurs, make the switch and go Conklin.

I agree with all of this. If Osgood f***s up in the playoffs he better get the quick hook as there's no time to mess around then. I actually said earlier in the season that Ozzie in his career has done better with a fire lit under his ass and it's entirely true. He needs that sort of pressure.

[beepbeep 3]

What's that SMELL??????????? Oh it's just our goalie!!!!!!!!

[Electrophile 3,554]

I agree with all of this. If Osgood f***s up in the playoffs he better get the quick hook as there's no time to mess around then. I actually said earlier in the season that Ozzie in his career has done better with a fire lit under his ass and it's entirely true. He needs that sort of pressure.

While I agree with this, I shudder to think what'll be said about Conklin if we have to put him in and he folds. Personally, I don't know what he'll do in that situation should it come down to it. I'd like to think he'd do what Ozzie did last season when he had to come in for Hasek, but who knows. Who do we have next down the pipe after Conks?

Edited March 30, 2009 by Electrophile

[ben_usmc 253]

Actually i really don't care tbh... Ozzie is my favorite Wing and I enjoy watching him play night in and night out despite his ups and downs. Seeing 4 cups in my lifetime is way more than most can ever hope to accomplish so really i am very content now with just watching my favorites play. I am a fan of the sport itself and the game. Having your childhood home town team win it all is quite nice, don't get me wrong. But at this stage in my life and the recent success the wings have had on a season to season basis... its time for me to enjoy whats left of my favorites careers.

Personally I do feel everything is going to be okay, i am not going to be two-faced about it.... Seeing Ozzie in the games makes me happy... personally i was more scared the last few seasons with hasek in net than i ever was with ozzie in net.

Call me a fan of a specific player or whatnot... i consider myself a fan of the game as a whole. winning is nice but it sure as hell isnt everything to me. I would rather watch a losing season with a team i care about then a winning season with a bunch of guys i don't care about. aka i don't jump ship just because my players are having a rough season... for better or for worse, right?

What is all this none sense about an upgraded goalie? do you have such a short term memory that you fail to see our over paid (cujo) and the best goalie in all of hockey (hasek) still produced the same amount of cups of as say the scum-bag Ozzie????????

What the hell are you talking about? I mean I can't really argue against someones opinion on a topic like that, but I sure as hell root for my team over any player. I personally would rather have a SC then a regular season win that I'm at any day of the week. Also nobody is really any less of a fan if they are insulting players that deserve to be criticized. I have no idea how Hasek scared you more so then Ozzy has this year, I would love to have the Ozzy of last year because he was lights out, but this years Ozzy is 1000x worse then Hasek was last year.

[ben_usmc 253]

Yep.

I'm glad that Babs said the Wings are focusing on staying healthy, but man, it kills me to watch them hold back, not play hard, and lose a game that could easily be a win. I have been hoping they have been holding back a little....otherwise they have become lazy and they suck. Nice of Babs to make that statement. Not that it will put out any fires on these pages.....just sayin.

Yesterday is behind us. I still believe that the Wings will flip that elusive "switch" and prevail.

agreed, yeah it's a very understandable reasoning, at the same time it is extremely s***ty to do to the fans. People pay a lot of money on a ticket in hard times and they decide to ******* half ass the entire game.

[ben_usmc 253]

Osgood was unproven in the play offs at one point in time too. He was just lucky enough to play for a team that made the play offs alot. Besides that his play off past can do nothing to correct the garbage he is playing right NOW. He has been nothing but a great backup or a mediocre starter his entire career and right now I would settle for that because he isn't even close to being either of the 2.

Anyway, I would take an unproven Luongo any day over a 3 time cup winning Osgood. Luongo is in a totally different class then Osgood, there is no comparison... And Cujo was not a miserable goalie, he was a great goalie who got bum rushed here in Detroit

Exactly how the hell do people expect a goalie to ever get playoff experience without ever playing in one. I mean did Ozzy just wake up and some how already played twice? Seriously quit living about players past, Ozzy was great last year he almost deserved the Conn Smythe, but you know what he has been beyond horrible this year, when he's on the ice you can almost bet it's going to be a 3 goal game. Move on, I would rather the team win more then anything, and I doubt Ozzy can do it; I hope he can prove me wrong.

Just curious, what makes you think that? (don't answer if you are just going to post regular season numbers)

So what makes you think Ozzy can do it, and don't post what he's done he last seasons?

[ben_usmc 253]

While I agree with this, I shudder to think what'll be said about Conklin if we have to put him in and he folds. Personally, I don't know what he'll do in that situation should it come down to it. I'd like to think he'd do what Ozzie did last season when he had to come in for Hasek, but who knows. Who do we have next down the pipe after Conks?

so heres the problem, do we start with Ozzy go in a 2 game hole, then put in Conklin and he sucks and we just get ran through like a sorority girl on ruffes. Or do we go with the unknown in hopes he is good, and if he does suck then bring in the "proven" goalie who has played like s*** all season and hope he has the spark to show he was just waiting for the playoffs.

[eva unit zero 271]

Exactly how the hell do people expect a goalie to ever get playoff experience without ever playing in one. I mean did Ozzy just wake up and some how already played twice? Seriously quit living about players past, Ozzy was great last year he almost deserved the Conn Smythe, but you know what he has been beyond horrible this year, when he's on the ice you can almost bet it's going to be a 3 goal game. Move on, I would rather the team win more then anything, and I doubt Ozzy can do it; I hope he can prove me wrong.

Ozzie's first playoff experience came when Bob Essensa choked it up in 1994. Despite the fact that Osgood himself played well except for one memorable mistake, that series was why the Wings traded Steve Chiasson for Mike Vernon. Osgood, as a backup, played well enough to finish in the top ten in Vezina voting in 1994-95. Osgood finished second in 1995-96 behind Jim Carey, due to Carey's large number of shutouts. Osgood was the playoff starter that season for most of the games, with Vernon getting a decent chunk. Vernon was the playoff starter in 97, and was traded the following summer. Ozzie was starter in 98 and won the Cup.

And for those who say he's a career backup, or has only ever been a mediocre starter, Osgood was named to play in the All-Star game in 1996, 1997, 1998, and 2008. Hardly mediocre if he's been named an All-Star that often.

[clutchngrab 12]

Just curious, what makes you think that? (don't answer if you are just going to post regular season numbers)

Because I've watched every wings game this year except maybe 2 and I have noticed his positioning, rebound control, puck control and glove have been solid. I think he's a solid goalie. That was the point of the post.

Yeah, sometimes he over-commits, but when compared to the other one it is pretty much night and day - and not just for a game or two - all season.

[Reds4Life 51]

Ozzie's first playoff experience came when Bob Essensa choked it up in 1994. Despite the fact that Osgood himself played well except for one memorable mistake, that series was why the Wings traded Steve Chiasson for Mike Vernon. Osgood, as a backup, played well enough to finish in the top ten in Vezina voting in 1994-95. Osgood finished second in 1995-96 behind Jim Carey, due to Carey's large number of shutouts. Osgood was the playoff starter that season for most of the games, with Vernon getting a decent chunk. Vernon was the playoff starter in 97, and was traded the following summer. Ozzie was starter in 98 and won the Cup.

And for those who say he's a career backup, or has only ever been a mediocre starter, Osgood was named to play in the All-Star game in 1996, 1997, 1998, and 2008. Hardly mediocre if he's been named an All-Star that often.

ASG != AS Team

ASG is a complete joke.

Osgood never made first AS Team. And he made second AS Team only once.

And the 98 run? Osgood was awful and made many mistakes (especially against Phoenix and Dallas).

Edited March 31, 2009 by Reds4Life

[boomer 0]

What's that SMELL??????????? Oh it's just our goalie!!!!!!!!

Too the high heaven!

[boomer 0]

You would take unproven talent, but I'd take proven talent that wins championships. If it weren't for Osgood, this team would not have the opportunity to win back to backs. Simple as that. Create any scenario you like with other goalies, but this is reality.

Regarding Cujo, it wasn't that he was a miserable goalie. He just couldn't win any championships. And that's the bottom line. The controversy started in his second season, not first. Wings fans back when he was signed had this sort of cautious optimism and it stems from people who have long careers without championships leading a team. Initially it was the same way for Hasek but he proved himself rather quickly. Cujo did not. Osgood has long proven himself as capable goaltender and it's shown with 2 cups in the last 11 years with him as a starter. I'll always go with proven talent in crucial times.

I agree with all of this. If Osgood f***s up in the playoffs he better get the quick hook as there's no time to mess around then. I actually said earlier in the season that Ozzie in his career has done better with a fire lit under his ass and it's entirely true. He needs that sort of pressure.

Round one stage exit right please!

[Z and D for the C 712]

Ozzie's first playoff experience came when Bob Essensa choked it up in 1994. Despite the fact that Osgood himself played well except for one memorable mistake, that series was why the Wings traded Steve Chiasson for Mike Vernon. Osgood, as a backup, played well enough to finish in the top ten in Vezina voting in 1994-95. Osgood finished second in 1995-96 behind Jim Carey, due to Carey's large number of shutouts. Osgood was the playoff starter that season for most of the games, with Vernon getting a decent chunk. Vernon was the playoff starter in 97, and was traded the following summer. Ozzie was starter in 98 and won the Cup.

And for those who say he's a career backup, or has only ever been a mediocre starter, Osgood was named to play in the All-Star game in 1996, 1997, 1998, and 2008. Hardly mediocre if he's been named an All-Star that often.

We all know what happened more than a decade ago. How is that relevant to Conklin?