Holland "Not Optimistic" about re-signing Hossa

[ilmickeyli 40]

Hossa + Gaborik to LA? Maybe Kopy? lol

[Jericho613 74]

Ken Holland is not Brian Burke

Thank god for that

[gcom007 1,465]

So there's still a chance???

Until he signs with another team, there's still a chance. All these articles are just chewing on the same stuff they were chewing on over the weekend. As all parties actually involved have said, it's a very difficult decision. I'm not surprised he's taking anything to the wire and I wouldn't be surprised if we're still waiting on Thursday.

I don't think it's going to matter when it comes to Hudler or Sammy. Sammy especially is likely gone no matter what. Furthermore, the only deals that are going to go down early are going to be from teams overpaying. I don't think we have anything to lose or gain waiting or not waiting on Hossa. It is what it is. Time will tell. If Holland felt he needed a firm answer to get to the other players earlier, he would've requested it. If he doesn't see issue with it, we probably shouldn't either.

In general, this is the start of us literally seeing the changes in the way things are done in the NHL. Again, this is the first year teams are really feeling the weight of the cap on their shoulders. Patience is once again going to be a valuable virtue.

[Dominator2005 558]

Until he signs with another team, there's still a chance. All these articles are just chewing on the same stuff they were chewing on over the weekend. As all parties actually involved have said, it's a very difficult decision. I'm not surprised he's taking anything to the wire and I wouldn't be surprised if we're still waiting on Thursday.

I don't think it's going to matter when it comes to Hudler or Sammy. Sammy especially is likely gone no matter what. Furthermore, the only deals that are going to go down early are going to be from teams overpaying. I don't think we have anything to lose or gain waiting or not waiting on Hossa. It is what it is. Time will tell. If Holland felt he needed a firm answer to get to the other players earlier, he would've requested it. If he doesn't see issue with it, we probably shouldn't either.

In general, this is the start of us literally seeing the changes in the way things are done in the NHL. Again, this is the first year teams are really feeling the weight of the cap on their shoulders. Patience is once again going to be a valuable virtue.

Very tough situation for Hossa... even if he's going to sign with another team - we should thank him on a great season and a sacrifice he took last year... he took less to play with Detroit - let's NOT forget that...

[gcom007 1,465]

Very tough situation for Hossa... even if he's going to sign with another team - we should thank him on a great season and a sacrifice he took last year... he took less to play with Detroit - let's NOT forget that...

I absolutely agree. The venomous response many fans have had is unnecessary to say the least.

[ilmickeyli 40]

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/

06/30/09 at 08:59 PM ET | Comments (0)

“If Hossa comes back at a number we can’t refuse, we’ll go through the process of moving bodies around to get him in. But based on our space, I’m not optimistic. He can receive offers from other teams that don’t have the star contracts we do, and he can be their star.â€

Wings GM Ken Holland. More on the Wings from Helene St. James of the Detroit Free Press....

[Dominator2005 558]

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/

06/30/09 at 08:59 PM ET | Comments (0)

“If Hossa comes back at a number we can’t refuse, we’ll go through the process of moving bodies around to get him in. But based on our space, I’m not optimistic. He can receive offers from other teams that don’t have the star contracts we do, and he can be their star.â€

Wings GM Ken Holland. More on the Wings from Helene St. James of the Detroit Free Press....

Is it me or is this a contradiction???

[Dominator2005 558]

I absolutely agree. The venomous response many fans have had is unnecessary to say the least.

[gcom007 1,465]

Is it me or is this a contradiction???

I think it's as simple as him being able to move some people to accommodate but he can't move half the team.

[Dominator2005 558]

I think it's as simple as him being able to move some people to accommodate but he can't move half the team.

He could move only one player like: Flip or Homer or Cleary (I hope not)...

Holland should move Lebda and Maltby right now = +/- $1.5M

[chrisdetroit 189]

To go along with the other thread, if Hossa signs for $4.5, Kronwall will be the one traded. With Hossa we only have 11 forwards (ad that is with re-signing Leino) why take away from an already short staffed forward group when you have 8 defensmen (Lilja included.) If Lilja is not healthy, you have seven, but trading away Lebda AND Meech is NOT going to free up enough space to bring up Abby (I know he is pegged to spend the year in GRR, but it is an option when you are short 2 forwards.) OR sign two forwards to fill out your forwards. Now all of a sudden you are down to 6 defensmen with no room to bring up someone. Keeping Lebda/Meech allows you to have 7 defensmen and 12 forwards (because Meech doubles up front.) Now, trading Kronwall not only opens up $3 million more, it allows Meech to serve as that 7th defensman & 13th forward. And you still have cash to sign (or bring up Abby) to fill out your 13 forwards. I know trading Kronwall is even less popular than trading Filppula, but it makes more business sense, you'll have less spots to fill.

WITH KRONWALL & HOSSA:(assuming Lilja is out)

Cleary - Zetter - Dats

Hossa - Filppula - Franzen

Leino - Helm - Holmstrom

Maltby - Draper - ??????

Meech

Lids - Rafi

Stu - Kron

Leb - Eric

Meech

The above roster puts us over the CAP by $870,000 all while missing a 12th forward. If you trade Meech/Lebda you are now down 2 forwards and 2 defensmen plus you only have $262,000 to fill 4 roster spots. Now, if you trade Kronwall (of course this is also assuming Stuart or Rafi will NOT waive their NTC's) the roster looks like this, with Hossa and no Lilja:

Cleary - Zetts - Dats

Hossa - Filpp - Franz

Leino - Helm - Holm

Maltby - Drap - ?????

????

Lids - Rafi

Stu - Eric

Lebda - Meech

????

Notice there is still 3 spots open, but you now have $2.1 million to fill those spots. I am a fan for bring up Abby, and giving maybe someone on the D in GRR a ligit shot, like Kindl. Or you can sign a defenman for around $1million and once again Meech can act as your 7th defensman and your 13th forward.

If you trade Filppula or Cleary sure the money freed up is nearly the same, but then you'd have to sign a 2nd line center for $1.8 to $2.1 million.

Whatever happens, we are goin to look a little different next year, Hossa or not. I hope Hossa signs, but if he doesn't no biggie, I just hope Holland doesn't waste his entire cap space on Hudler...

Won't happen. Kenny is not going to trade Kronwall. Our top D pairing are 39 and 35. Kronwall is 28. We are probably going to lose Lids in a year or so and Ralfi a couple of years after that. If we lose Kronwall also, that leaves us with Lilja, Stuart, Lebda, Ericsson and Meech and probably a couple of younger guys unless they can trade for a top pairing guy but that defeats the purpose of dumping Kronwall's salary.

And after Cleary's playoff performance, he isn't going anywhere.

This is not a good post.

[#18 the _Hoss_ 2]

Hossa + Gaborik to LA? Maybe Kopy? lol

if Sedins = 0 and H+G then team = VAN (Demitra)

Edited July 1, 2009 by #18 the _Hoss_

[Guest Hatethedrake!]

Reading Kenny's latest comments I am inclined to believe he does not want Hudler very badly. The fact that Hossa is going to test the market makes me think he is gone. With rumours of Colton Orr being a possible signing, how about Ian Laperriere for the 3rd line?

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Filppula-Cleary

Laperriere-Helm-Leino

Maltby-Draper-Orr

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Lilja-Ericsson

Meech

Osgood-Howard

[Dominator2005 558]

Reading Kenny's latest comments I am inclined to believe he does not want Hudler very badly. The fact that Hossa is going to test the market makes me think he is gone. With rumours of Colton Orr being a possible signing, how about Ian Laperriere for the 3rd line?

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Filppula-Cleary

Laperriere-Helm-Leino

Maltby-Draper-Orr

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Lilja-Ericsson

Meech

Osgood-Howard

I dont't think we are going to get Lappy and Orr - it will be one of them... Would like to find a way to ship Maltby out of town...

Hudler - well I think Holland will let him sign with another team - pick draft picks and let him go...

[LeftWinger 5,149]

With that, let's take a look at the various Tuesday afternoon free agent previews. ESPN's EJ Hradek spoke to Sportscenter about Marian Hossa, stating that Ken Holland remains "not optimistic" about signing Hossa, and that he's probably headed to Los Angeles, in a 5:46 video (check the 4:28 remaining mark)...

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/06/ge...he_red_win.html

GAME OVER!!!!!

Ok, so here is our roster as it stands, not including ANY UFA OR RFA, just players under contract and who are going to start the season in Detroit. (If you want to subtract Lilja you can, but noone knows if he'll be ready so I will keep him ON the roster.) With this Roster we have $3.3 Million dollars to play with...

FORWARDS 9 out of 13

Pavel Datsyuk $6,700,000

Henrik Zetterberg $6,083,333

Johan Franzen $3,954,545

Valtteri Filppula $3,000,000

Daniel Cleary $2,800,000

Tomas Holmstrom $2,250,000

Kris Draper $1,583,333

Kirk Maltby $883,333

Darren Helm $599,444

DEFENSEMEN 8 out of 7 needed (Meech Could move up to Forward if No Lilja then 7 out of 7)

Nicklas Lidstrom $7,450,000

Brian Rafalaski $6,000,000

Brad Stuart $3,750,000

Niklas Kronwall $3,000,000

Andreas Lilja $1,250,000

Jonathan Ericsson $900,000

Brett Lebda $650,000

Derek Meech $483,333

GOALTENDERS 2 out of 2

Chris Osgood $1,416,666

Jimmy Howard $716,666

with this roster we have $3.3 million to sign 4 forwards (at least three if Meech double duties.) If Lilja doesn't play then we have $4.5 million. You are the GM, you have NO Hossa now, within reason (meaning players that would accept these conracts you offer REALISTICALLY) find 4 more forwards and sign them up! Because of my dislike for Hudler, I would not offer him anything. But who do you get? 4 forwards... Of course I am also assuming you re-sign Leino ($950,000 not unreasonable,) so now you are down to 3 with $3.6 million...

Here's mine:

Leino $950,000

Travis Moen - $1.25

Joel Ward - $850,000

Vern Fiddler - $1.25

That'll make Maltby your 13th forward and Meech your 7th defensman & extra forward as well. It only leaves me $275,000 in cap space, but our injuries should be covered with Meech & Malbty. Now if Lilja comes back, that'll case a problem for my roster. Then the Trades or Waiver starts...

What do YOU do?

[RedFX 48]

Come to think of it, has Kenny even made a qualifying offer to Hudler? My understanding of the rule is that if an RFA does not get a qualifying offer before free agency starts, that nullifies his team's negotiating rights, essentially making him unrestricted.

If this is correct, than Hudler can basically go anywhere, and we would receive no compensation. Any info on this?

[LeftWinger 5,149]

Won't happen. Kenny is not going to trade Kronwall. Our top D pairing are 39 and 35. Kronwall is 28. We are probably going to lose Lids in a year or so and Ralfi a couple of years after that. If we lose Kronwall also, that leaves us with Lilja, Stuart, Lebda, Ericsson and Meech and probably a couple of younger guys unless they can trade for a top pairing guy but that defeats the purpose of dumping Kronwall's salary.

And after Cleary's playoff performance, he isn't going anywhere.

This is not a good post.

It all teeters on Hossa.... I know trading Kronwall is VERY unpopular, but if you trade Filppula or Cleary you have even less forwards, so you have Hossa & keep Kronwall then you only have 10 forwards. Who fills in the 3 other spots? I do hear you on Kronwall and in a few years our top two SHOULD be Kronner and Ericsson. But if Hossa acceptsm someone in the $3million range has to go. Rafi & Stuart have NTC's (which cold be waived, but...) and money wise, it would be easier to complete you roster if you only had to replace 1 defencman NOT 3 forwards. Trading Meech AND LEbda would not clear enough room capwise either. I am not advocating trading Kronwall, BUT, I am just looking at having an incomplete roster with no capspace versus a complete roster with no capspace...

Hudler = Gone, get over it...

Edited July 1, 2009 by LeftWinger

[Guest Hatethedrake!]

Ok, so here is our roster as it stands, not including ANY UFA OR RFA, just players under contract and who are going to start the season in Detroit. (If you want to subtract Lilja you can, but noone knows if he'll be ready so I will keep him ON the roster.) With this Roster we have $3.3 Million dollars to play with...

FORWARDS 9 out of 13

Pavel Datsyuk $6,700,000

Henrik Zetterberg $6,083,333

Johan Franzen $3,954,545

Valtteri Filppula $3,000,000

Daniel Cleary $2,800,000

Tomas Holmstrom $2,250,000

Kris Draper $1,583,333

Kirk Maltby $883,333

Darren Helm $599,444

DEFENSEMEN 8 out of 7 needed (Meech Could move up to Forward if No Lilja then 7 out of 7)

Nicklas Lidstrom $7,450,000

Brian Rafalaski $6,000,000

Brad Stuart $3,750,000

Niklas Kronwall $3,000,000

Andreas Lilja $1,250,000

Jonathan Ericsson $900,000

Brett Lebda $650,000

Derek Meech $483,333

GOALTENDERS 2 out of 2

Chris Osgood $1,416,666

Jimmy Howard $716,666

with this roster we have $3.3 million to sign 4 forwards (at least three if Meech double duties.) If Lilja doesn't play then we have $4.5 million. You are the GM, you have NO Hossa now, within reason (meaning players that would accept these conracts you offer REALISTICALLY) find 4 more forwards and sign them up! Because of my dislike for Hudler, I would not offer him anything. But who do you get? 4 forwards... Of course I am also assuming you re-sign Leino ($950,000 not unreasonable,) so now you are down to 3 with $3.6 million...

Here's mine:

Leino $950,000

Travis Moen - $1.25

Joel Ward - $850,000

Vern Fiddler - $1.25

That'll make Maltby your 13th forward and Meech your 7th defensman & extra forward as well. It only leaves me $275,000 in cap space, but our injuries should be covered with Meech & Malbty. Now if Lilja comes back, that'll case a problem for my roster. Then the Trades or Waiver starts...

What do YOU do?

Well reading Kenny's earlier quotes and latest quotes I believe the following is true...

Hossa will not be returning. Hudler is not a priority. Still interest in Samuelsson but only at the right price. McCarty and Downey will not be back in Detroit or in Grand Rapids. Rumours are out that Orr could be a possibility. Makes sense to me. I am hoping that the money we could have offered Hudler (2 mil) will go to Ian Lapperriere. I think he could help us big time and add some much needed energy and grit. Him and Helm paired together would be an absolute nightmare for opposing teams. If I'm Lappy, I jump at the chance to sign with the Wings for less with a great chance of winning a Cup. Abdelkader needs 1st line minutes in Grand Rapids and then gets called up for the playoffs where he scores 4 game winning goals in next year's Cup Final. Lebda is dealt after training camp when Lilja gets a clean bill of health from the concussion. If he can't go then he is placed on LTIR and Lebda stays. So my line-up is still...

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Filppula-Cleary

Lapperriere-Helm-Leino

Maltby-Draper-Orr

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Lilja-Ericsson

Meech

Osgood-Howard

Do we keep Lebda around to be the extra dman and Meech be the extra forward? Not sure if we have the Cap space for that. Maybe Sammy signs for 2 mil and we keep him instead of going after Lappy. I do not get the feeling Hudler or Hossa will be back though. Same goes for Kopecky. Holland shed alot more light with his comments today on what he sees this team looking like for next season. Or maybe I'm hallucinating.

[rage 24]

Come to think of it, has Kenny even made a qualifying offer to Hudler? My understanding of the rule is that if an RFA does not get a qualifying offer before free agency starts, that nullifies his team's negotiating rights, essentially making him unrestricted.

If this is correct, than Hudler can basically go anywhere, and we would receive no compensation. Any info on this?

He's made qualifying offers to Leino and Hudler.

[LeftWinger 5,149]

Well reading Kenny's earlier quotes and latest quotes I believe the following is true...

Hossa will not be returning. Hudler is not a priority. Still interest in Samuelsson but only at the right price. McCarty and Downey will not be back in Detroit or in Grand Rapids. Rumours are out that Orr could be a possibility. Makes sense to me. I am hoping that the money we could have offered Hudler (2 mil) will go to Ian Lapperriere. I think he could help us big time and add some much needed energy and grit. Him and Helm paired together would be an absolute nightmare for opposing teams. If I'm Lappy, I jump at the chance to sign with the Wings for less with a great chance of winning a Cup. Abdelkader needs 1st line minutes in Grand Rapids and then gets called up for the playoffs where he scores 4 game winning goals in next year's Cup Final. Lebda is dealt after training camp when Lilja gets a clean bill of health from the concussion. If he can't go then he is placed on LTIR and Lebda stays. So my line-up is still...

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Filppula-Cleary

Lapperriere-Helm-Leino

Maltby-Draper-Orr

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Lilja-Ericsson

Meech

Osgood-Howard

Do we keep Lebda around to be the extra dman and Meech be the extra forward? Not sure if we have the Cap space for that. Maybe Sammy signs for 2 mil and we keep him instead of going after Lappy. I do not get the feeling Hudler or Hossa will be back though. Same goes for Kopecky. Holland shed alot more light with his comments today on what he sees this team looking like for next season. Or maybe I'm hallucinating.

Sammy at $2million no thanks... WIth your linup, how much cap is left over?

edit: nevermind, I checked, with giving Lappy $2millin and Leino $950,000 yo still have $1 million left over for Orr (would he command more than that, I don't know much about him)

Edited July 1, 2009 by LeftWinger

[RedWingsRox 614]

Just heard that Hossa turned down Wings offer for 10 years at 40 mill.

[Dominator2005 558]

Ok, so here is our roster as it stands, not including ANY UFA OR RFA, just players under contract and who are going to start the season in Detroit. (If you want to subtract Lilja you can, but noone knows if he'll be ready so I will keep him ON the roster.) With this Roster we have $3.3 Million dollars to play with...

FORWARDS 9 out of 13

Pavel Datsyuk $6,700,000

Henrik Zetterberg $6,083,333

Johan Franzen $3,954,545

Valtteri Filppula $3,000,000

Daniel Cleary $2,800,000

Tomas Holmstrom $2,250,000

Kris Draper $1,583,333

Kirk Maltby $883,333

Darren Helm $599,444

DEFENSEMEN 8 out of 7 needed (Meech Could move up to Forward if No Lilja then 7 out of 7)

Nicklas Lidstrom $7,450,000

Brian Rafalaski $6,000,000

Brad Stuart $3,750,000

Niklas Kronwall $3,000,000

Andreas Lilja $1,250,000

Jonathan Ericsson $900,000

Brett Lebda $650,000

Derek Meech $483,333

GOALTENDERS 2 out of 2

Chris Osgood $1,416,666

Jimmy Howard $716,666

with this roster we have $3.3 million to sign 4 forwards (at least three if Meech double duties.) If Lilja doesn't play then we have $4.5 million. You are the GM, you have NO Hossa now, within reason (meaning players that would accept these conracts you offer REALISTICALLY) find 4 more forwards and sign them up! Because of my dislike for Hudler, I would not offer him anything. But who do you get? 4 forwards... Of course I am also assuming you re-sign Leino ($950,000 not unreasonable,) so now you are down to 3 with $3.6 million...

Here's mine:

Leino $950,000

Travis Moen - $1.25

Joel Ward - $850,000

Vern Fiddler - $1.25

That'll make Maltby your 13th forward and Meech your 7th defensman & extra forward as well. It only leaves me $275,000 in cap space, but our injuries should be covered with Meech & Malbty. Now if Lilja comes back, that'll case a problem for my roster. Then the Trades or Waiver starts...

What do YOU do?

1. I would let Hudler go and pick up draft picks.

2. Go after Moen - if we can get him at $1.25M (not sure about it) - who can play on 3rd line with Helm, bring GRIT and PK or BLAIR BETTS

3. Sign Leino $950,000 seems fair

4. Trade Lebda or Meech and sign cheap 4th liner = Orr $650.00

Pavel Datsyuk $6,700,000 - Henrik Zetterberg $6,083,333 - Tomas Holmstrom $2,250,000

Johan Franzen $3,954,545 - Valtteri Filppula $3,000,000 - Daniel Cleary $2,800,000

Darren Helm $599,444 - Travis Moen $1,250,000 - Leino $950,000

Kris Draper $1,583,333 - Kirk Maltby $883,333 - Colton Orr $650,000

Nicklas Lidstrom $7,450,000 - Brian Rafalaski $6,000,000

Brad Stuart $3,750,000 - Niklas Kronwall $3,000,000

Andreas Lilja $1,250,000 - Jonathan Ericsson $900,000

Derek Meech $483,333

Chris Osgood $1,416,666

Jimmy Howard $716,666

UPGRADE PK + TOUGHNESS - SKILLS (SCORING) = TOTAL 55,670,653

[russianswede919293 95]

What is the radio station claiming that Hossa rejected the offer. I haven't seen it anywhere.

[LeftWinger 5,149]

Just heard that Hossa turned down Wings offer for 10 years at 40 mill.

Linky? Source?

[The Big Red Machine 0]

Linky? Source?

Non-existent right now.