Fil's Play

[Jasper84 333]

So I'm having a hockey discussion with one of my buddies about Filp's play during this past post season. His argument was that Hudler deserves more money then Val, because he was a no-show throughout this past post season. Whether he does deserve more or not, that's no longer the point. I gave him my unprofessional opinion that Val was one of the Wing's best player this post season (minus the finals of course), and his argument is "how many goals did he score". Now I don't know about other hockey fans, but to me it's not all about goal scoring. According to him, everyone he works with (which is a field of work hockey related) agrees with him that Val sucked in the playoffs.

So with that said, I'm curious to see what LGW posters opinions are on Val's post season play this year.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Hudler had 4 goals in the postseason, with none of them occurring in the last two series. He had 8 assists for a 12 point total, and was +4.

Filppulla only had one less goal in the postseason, with two of his three coming against Pittsburgh when the Wings needed it the most. Filppulla also had 13 assists, which alone beats out Hudler's point total, and was a +8. It was relatively easy to see that Filppulla's play was far more dominant than Hudler's this postseason just by watching the games, but in case your friends missed the entire playoffs, the statistics back up your arguments just as well.

[NGKEIB 32]

Echolalia beat me too it. The stats show that Filppula was more important. He also contributed to the penalty kill, and when Datsyuk's shoes needed filling, Filppula showed he was able to do it. I thought that he had a great post-season.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Your buddy doesn't know very much about hockey. Flip was right up there with the Zetterberg as the wings best players over the entire playoff run.

[Louisville 112]

Throw that in your friend's face!

Hudler more dominant that Flip last playoffs? You kidding me? I would forget Hudler was playing at times.

[egroen 384]

Hudler was great in '08 in the Columbus series this year -- not so much after the Mike Brown hit.

Filppula had a much better post-season this year than last -- though he drew Malkin as his defensive assignment and understandably failed there.

EDIT: Oops! Had Doug Brown on the brain!

Edited July 8, 2009 by egroen

[StevieY9802 6]

Hudler was great in '08 in the Columbus series this year -- not so much after the Doug Brown hit.

Filppula had a much better post-season this year than last -- though he drew Malkin as his defensive assignment and understandably failed there.

I think you mean Mike Brown. Something tells me Dougie isn't playing anymore.

I agree with what you are saying though.

[Nev 1,085]

Echolalia beat me too it. The stats show that Filppula was more important. He also contributed to the penalty kill, and when Datsyuk's shoes needed filling, Filppula showed he was able to do it. I thought that he had a great has had 2 consecutive great post-seasons.

And as I never tire of pointing out, he had a career high in Assists and Points last year despite spending most of the season on the 3rd line with little PP time.

With the loss of Hossa, Sammy and probly Hudler he will get a LOT more playing time, probably centre the 2nd line. There've been a few comments from Holland, Babcock & co this post-season about expecting Flip to take it to the next level this season.

He just needs to work on his shot - especially his shot selection. He passes far to often when he should shoot. That and consistency are the only 2 real weaknesses in his game. I expect him to have a breakout year on a line with Leino & Franzen.

[wingslionstigers 12]

Hudler had 4 goals in the postseason, with none of them occurring in the last two series. He had 8 assists for a 12 point total, and was +4.

Filppulla only had one less goal in the postseason, with two of his three coming against Pittsburgh when the Wings needed it the most. Filppulla also had 13 assists, which alone beats out Hudler's point total, and was a +8. It was relatively easy to see that Filppulla's play was far more dominant than Hudler's this postseason just by watching the games, but in case your friends missed the entire playoffs, the statistics back up your arguments just as well.

Even though i agree with you i still find it funny how some people are so hard on for stats. I bet you if Flip had 4-5 less points you would be saying he sucked right now regardless if he played just as well as he did.

Anyways. Only reason i even give you a hard time because i fought for Filppula all summer long trying to explain to people on the board hes a great player. Guess what? People only look at the stat sheet around here and it gets on my nerves.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Any anyone who suggests Flip was a "no show" in the playoffs needs to have their head read. He was amongst our best players.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Aussie_Wing

[jollymania 162]

hes gonna break out this season offensively i hope, but the dude has already matured in his overall game, he's jsut gotta finish on the goal scoring end more consistently, hes already a great passer and defender.

[ccmike9 0]

Personally, I think that Flip was the second best performer last playoffs (Behind Hank). His combination of touch, vision, and chemistry on the Ice made for some very fun shifts to watch. The most important thing to me was watching him do the little things right. It's not all about goals and points, you have to watch a player move well on the ice and display a grasp of the fundamentals. In my eyes, Flip did exactly that.

[Finnish Wing 110]

I mean most of the games you didn't even notice Hudler there. Flip was far more dominating and made good plays all the time.

[PROBIE4PREZ 58]

Fil stepped up huge when Pav went down .. Hudler .. didnt even notice him besides the OT winner he assisted on

[bonan78 1]

I don't know how anyone who watched any of the last 2 rounds could say what the guy referenced to in the OP said.

Filppula was one of the most consistent players in the last 2 rounds, he showed us the kind of player Babcock and Holland feel he can be when he got his raise. Hopefully, he can build off of his playoff performance and hit the ground running next season, especially with all of the departures. I expect 25 goals 40 assists out of him next season if he stays in the top 6 and gets significant PP time.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Even though i agree with you i still find it funny how some people are so hard on for stats. I bet you if Flip had 4-5 less points you would be saying he sucked right now regardless if he played just as well as he did.

Anyways. Only reason i even give you a hard time because i fought for Filppula all summer long trying to explain to people on the board hes a great player. Guess what? People only look at the stat sheet around here and it gets on my nerves.

Its not that I have a hard on for stats (see: my support for Kopecky this season), but when they support your argument, its better to use them than to use "what I saw". In Filppulla's case, both his on ice play and the resulting positive statistics demonstrate that he was more effective than Hudler; however the numbers are a lot less debatable and don't provide as much wiggle room as arguing how hard he plays. You may notice in my quote that I added the disclaimer "in case your friend missed the entire playoffs, the statistics back up your arguments just as well"

Edited July 8, 2009 by Echolalia

[xBrave_Heartx 0]

Like, if anyone on this forum knows me, i'am a huge advocate for toughness, gritty and cheap hockey. Yet Val Filpulla is my favorite wing. How does this happen? I'll tell you.

He never takes a shift off and he plays both ways. Those things are two things i look for in a hockey player and val does them both exceptionally well.

[ComradeWasabi 109]

My only criticism of Val at this juncture is his continuing lack of willingness to shoot the puck. Apart from that, I could not be happier with Flip's play, and I say that as one of the few who were defending him throughout the regular season instead of crucifying him.

[p_diddy_datsyuk_13 2]

Any anyone who suggests Flip was a "no show" in the playoffs needs to have their head read. He was amongst our best players.

I am not saying Filppula was bad, but give Hudler the kind of ice-time that Filppula gets on a regular basis and lets see what happens, Hudler outproduced Filppula in the regular season with 3 minutes fewer ice-time per game, and was doing the same through the first two rounds of the playoffs until his playing time was cut back against Chicago, at the same time Filppula's ice time increased, giving Filppula 4 more minutes per game on the second line...

and don't go saying "well, when Hudler gets ice time he doesn't do anything" because he never gets it on a consistent basis, he never gets it long enough to build any chemistry on the second line...

there were a couple games this last year, when Hudler was put on a line with Hossa for a few shifts at a time and the two combined to score a couple goals, but then just as he seemed to get going, they put Hudler back on the 3rd or 4th line.

Hudler needs consistent playing time, with consistent linemates... something he has yet to get in his time with the Wings. He is a sure-fire 2nd line player who just needs more ice-time. He is not a penalty killer, an never will be, that is why we have players like Helm, Draper, Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Filppula. Hudler is a proven scorer, but when the Wings' needed him most, he played just a couple shifts in the 3rd period of game 7 against Pittsburgh, as he was buried on the 4th line with Draper and Maltby. If they can find him the ice-time that he was supposed to get before they signed Hossa, then he could blossom into a 60-70 point per year player. But don't expect big numbers in the finals from a player whose coach is only playing him 10 minutes a game.

[titanium2 867]

Give Hudler Filppula's ice time and the opposition has more room to skate around because Huds can't keep up and has always been inconsistent in his defensive play. His effort is there, he just doesn't have the tools.

[Z and D for the C 712]

and don't go saying "well, when Hudler gets ice time he doesn't do anything" because he never gets it on a consistent basis, he never gets it long enough to build any chemistry on the second line...

there were a couple games this last year, when Hudler was put on a line with Hossa for a few shifts at a time and the two combined to score a couple goals, but then just as he seemed to get going, they put Hudler back on the 3rd or 4th line.

Hudler needs consistent playing time, with consistent linemates... something he has yet to get in his time with the Wings. He is a sure-fire 2nd line player who just needs more ice-time. He is not a penalty killer, an never will be, that is why we have players like Helm, Draper, Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Filppula. Hudler is a proven scorer, but when the Wings' needed him most, he played just a couple shifts in the 3rd period of game 7 against Pittsburgh, as he was buried on the 4th line with Draper and Maltby. If they can find him the ice-time that he was supposed to get before they signed Hossa, then he could blossom into a 60-70 point per year player. But don't expect big numbers in the finals from a player whose coach is only playing him 10 minutes a game.

Flip spent most of his time on the third line until the third round when he was with Hossa and Franzen. Everything you're saying about Hudler is the same for Flip, and probably moreso.

[Stiffy 0]

Flip was fantastic in the post season and finals. What I saw was this - he was demonstrating in every possible way that he could help Hossa by being on top of his game and more than capable to make plays. For whatever reason Hossa only seemed to catch on to this once in a while and when he did, they scored. I was baffled why Hossa continued his lone effort so many times when Flip was right there almost every shift. Well Hossa is gone, so what? I think it speaks to the idea that if you get Flip the right linemates, things will happen. Like Datsyuk he can make other players better. This is starting to grow and develop. And why not, he has been a student of Dats for a while now. Flip has shown up for two post seasons and two finals in a row now, last year with a significant injury he played through like a champ (Yzerman said so and he knows more about hockey that we do). What else do you need for crying out loud?

[gcom007 1,465]

I'm one of the few that's never been that impressed with the guy, nor was I impressed by his playoff performance. I'm not knocking assists, but if you really break it down and watch this guy play, it's obvious that he's not the greatest play-maker in the world and that takes some shine off the stats in my book. On top of that, half the Wings team was injured and we had a bunch of Grand Rapids kids playing. I would hope Flip would look like one of the better players especially considering he's got one of the heavier cap hits. And like your friends said, he didn't score, nor does he ever score with any sort of consistency. I would go so far as to say he probably never will either. He just doesn't have the shot of the ability to really create and finish plays. He's a solid 3rd line center and good for 40-50 points (hopefully...) but people dreaming about him being one of our best players and a future Datsyuk/Zetterberg are going to wake up to a bittersweet reality in a few years when his contract is up and he's still basically the same player he was this last season.

The Flip signing is the one deal Holland made that I really don't like from the last few years. If it was done for between $2-2.5 million, I would've been a little happier about it but $3 million for this guy especially at this point is a joke. He just doesn't have the skills. He never would've gotten that deal if not for the RFA issues and teams overpaying. Personally, I would've let him walk. They might end up letting Hudler walk for this reason and he's got more of an offensive upside which isn't so bad seeing as goals win games. Barring a complete paradigm shift in this guys mental game and a physical manifestation of skill that he at this point does not have, my bet is that Holland starts regretting this deal by mid-season and he becomes trade bait if we've got more serious holes to fill heading into the playoffs.

Management is talking him up now because they want to get his confidence up out of hopes that he might find a way to become a consistent player, but the fire that makes guys great doesn't come out of nowhere. You've got it or you don't. Franzen, despite a few years of less than stellar stats, always had that fire. That's why Yzerman nicknamed him the Mule right off the bat in his first camp. It's why I said this guy would be a force long before he was. He's got skill and he works his ass off. It would've happened sooner most likely if he hadn't been the victim of the cheap-shots he took in years past. That kind of stuff hangs in your head a bit. But when he got a chance after some time has passed, he took over and became one of the more potent scorers in the league. He's got the fire.

Flip's had chances and has no excuses really but the bottom line is he just doesn't have the skill or the fire. As Holland is sobered up by the cap this summer and watches another average regular season start from Flip, look for him to get dealt at the deadline if we can make a big improvement. You don't get paid $3 million on the Wings to score a handful of goals and a few more assists for under 40 points. It won't fly for long in this era. And no matter what anyone says about his performance in the playoffs, we didn't win. It wasn't enough to take us over the top or lend credence to the idea of him being a major player to carry the team as far as they were. Only one guy on the team brought it every night and really stood out and that was Osgood. Flip was better than some, but considering the health of the squad at the time and his salary, it's not much to write home about.

3 goals?

3 goals?

3 goals?

A snake-bit Hossa managed 6 and we crucified him and people want to talk up a guy who scored 3 goals? Ludicrous.

[gcom007 1,465]

Flip was fantastic in the post season and finals. What I saw was this - he was demonstrating in every possible way that he could help Hossa by being on top of his game and more than capable to make plays. For whatever reason Hossa only seemed to catch on to this once in a while and when he did, they scored. I was baffled why Hossa continued his lone effort so many times when Flip was right there almost every shift. Well Hossa is gone, so what? I think it speaks to the idea that if you get Flip the right linemates, things will happen. Like Datsyuk he can make other players better. This is starting to grow and develop. And why not, he has been a student of Dats for a while now. Flip has shown up for two post seasons and two finals in a row now, last year with a significant injury he played through like a champ (Yzerman said so and he knows more about hockey that we do). What else do you need for crying out loud?

He was good, but fantastic? Really? What on earth did he do that was so fantastic. I've got all the games recorded on the DVR. In HD even. I can see them pretty well. I saw Flip play descent hockey but fantastic hockey? Flip seems to bring out a lot of superlatives around here...but seriously, a guy who scored 3 goals in the playoffs deserves "fantastic?" And don't even get me started on his assists...

And the difference between Flip and Datsyuk is that Dats can spark greatness from nothing. Flip absolutely does not have that ability. Your point was practically a contradiction. Get him the right linemates and things will happen followed by comparing him to Dats who makes others around him better? When Dats isn't injured like he was this last post-season, it doesn't matter who he's with, he plays great and makes others play great. That's why he was nominated for the Hart trophy this year. He's one of the greatest players in the game. Don't insult his reputation by suggesting that a guy like Flip is even close to the kind of player Datsyuk is. The idea is nothing short of ridiculous in every way.

[Guest Four]

He was good, but fantastic? Really? What on earth did he do that was so fantastic. I've got all the games recorded on the DVR. In HD even. I can see them pretty well. I saw Flip play descent hockey but fantastic hockey? Flip seems to bring out a lot of superlatives around here...but seriously, a guy who scored 3 goals in the playoffs deserves "fantastic?" And don't even get me started on his assists...

And the difference between Flip and Datsyuk is that Dats can spark greatness from nothing. Flip absolutely does not have that ability. Your point was practically a contradiction. Get him the right linemates and things will happen followed by comparing him to Dats who makes others around him better? When Dats isn't injured like he was this last post-season, it doesn't matter who he's with, he plays great and makes others play great. That's why he was nominated for the Hart trophy this year. He's one of the greatest players in the game. Don't insult his reputation by suggesting that a guy like Flip is even close to the kind of player Datsyuk is. The idea is nothing short of ridiculous in every way.

I thought you were going to say age.

Funny how Datsyuk had near the same amount of points at the same age.