Jason Williams Close To 1 Year Deal

[Guest E_S_A_D]

I don't think that UK Wing nor I intend to say that Holland is a BAD General Manager. I think what we're implying is that scouting, player development, and immense homework goes into the players he ultimately signs BASED on excellent recommendations.

Holland has been good for the Red Wings, although he's very anti-fighting which explains a lot of the empty seats in the Joe in the past decade of his tenure. However, anyone that doesn't think Holland misplayed this offseason would be sorely mistaken!

[mmamolo 287]

I don't really understand how ppl can say Holland misplayed this off season. There was no way any general manager wouldnt have resigned Zetterberg this year and Holland did it for a ~6M cap hit. Then he came right out and said next on the list was either Franzen or Hossa. Whichever presented his team with the better hockey deal he would take. Turned out to be Franzen.

We all knew last summer that the chances of keeping Hossa more than the one season were slim. Holland put his money on his best players and has let the others go. That's the way the cap world works and no GM can work around it. Holland has done everythign he could to sign Hudler who was the most valuable free agent, with a realistic chance of being resigned, heading into this summer. We all knew Samuelsson and Hossa we all but gone once Farnzen resigned. So far the only thing anyone should realistically hold against Holland is the Hudler situation. Despite me not holding anything against HUdler for his decision I personally feel Hudler is more to blame than Holland.

On to Jason Williams. Personally I'd really rather not see this signing happen. Other than the fact he is a right shot and can play the point on the powerplay I don't see the point in signing him. Obviously it would depend on how much the contract is for ($ and term) but I think there are better options out there.

Edited July 17, 2009 by mmamolo

[Mors 201]

Let's hope this isn't true or Holland will have wasted a great opportunity for some new blood. We got rid of this guy for a reason.

[Rice 42]

Count on this not happening.

[hockey&beer 16]

What a huge load of BS. Name me one good trade/signing that Holland has pulled off that had any impact on Detroit and the cup. Drake? Maybe...Hossa? No...although he did "just about" win us a 2nd

Not saying Ken Holland is a bad GM by any means, just saying he isnt a great one either.

There isn't another GM that has put together a team that has made the playoffs for 19 straight years. So, who is better??

(he wasn't GM for every year but still part of the organization)

[hockey&beer 16]

I'm not panicing. Believe me, I just don't want him on our team, period.

One win away from the Stanley Cup? Exactly!!! Oh wait...

Then subtract; Hossa, Sammuelson, Hudler, and Kopecky.

I know people have a bizarre fascination with Holland, who has been good. But he gets overly undeserved credit for player development research that Jim Dellevano actually does.

Jimmy D is in Lala land. There is a reason that he isn't given much credit whenever a player/scout/trainer/coach has good things to say aboot the Wings

[Majsheppard 203]

that would be weird...wouldnt be that upset...hes not bad...played well for the thrashers and jackets...but yeah there are a few others i would rather have...like any news on that trade for Zherdev??

He played fantastic for the Hawks, and really was a thorn in our side.

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

Let's hope this isn't true or Holland will have wasted a great opportunity for some new blood. We got rid of this guy for a reason.

Williams has played well lately. Maybe he just needed a change of scenery to grow into a better player. For the right price, I don't think it would be the end of the world to see him on the third line, on the point for the 2nd PP unit, and taking some shootouts. If Holland signs him, it's because he thinks that he can help the team. That is good enough for me.

That being said, I need a little more credible of a source than "a guy I know who is a friend of Williams". If it turns out to be right, thanks for the tip, but I don't think so!

[shoe 165]

if you fired Holland today 20 teams would line up to hire him. If he picks up Williams Im sure him and his staff have done their homework on him and he is the best man at the best price to fill the roll.

[sureWhyNot 19]

I never said or implied that I have a fascination with Holland.

You are implying that he is just scratching his rear end and that he is just downright awful from that post or that there is something just horribly wrong with the roster. When you've won a championship and just about won a 2nd, the current roster, even at a somewhat reduced state, isn't all that bad.

You didn't have to - the context of your post spoke loud enough.

[Acefan 0]

I remember when Jason played here in Finland (2004-05). He was good and everyone here loved him. He was the team's driving force and maybe the best player. Many people here are still today talking about that they want Jason back here to play. I was thinking the same way a few years ago.

But I'm not so sure do I want him to Detroit to play. He has had some injuries?

[Doc Holiday 0]

Holland has been good for the Red Wings, although he's very anti-fighting which explains a lot of the empty seats in the Joe in the past decade of his tenure. However, anyone that doesn't think Holland misplayed this offseason would be sorely mistaken!

What SHOULD he have done?

I'm all ears.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

You didn't have to - the context of your post spoke loud enough.

Nope.

My post was middle of the road and saying/implying that Holland has done his fair share to help build championships just like every other person in the Red Wings organization. Thanks for putting words into my mouth/post though.

Edited July 20, 2009 by SouthernWingsFan

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

While we're at it, Lang, Schneider, Dandenault, Shanahan, Joey MacDonald, Devereaux, Cujo, Bertuzzi, Calder, Andres Eriksson, and Legace are still all available!!!! Make it happen Holland... Reunion tour 2009-2010!... While we're at it, bring Hatcher out of retirement.

To bad we missed out on Knuble and Federov... but we can always trade for Knuble.

[Guest Shoreline]

What SHOULD he have done?

I'm all ears.

Throwing in Probert and Boogaard and Downey would have given the economy a boost more than the stimulus package and the fans would suddenly have money overflowing from their pockets to come to games! See how throwing in a fighter or two is a miracle like turning water into gold. Or maybe we've just continued to hear every rationale for the same BS about this team needing fighters when it doesn't.

[skacore 2]

Throwing in Probert and Boogaard and Downey would have given the economy a boost more than the stimulus package and the fans would suddenly have money overflowing from their pockets to come to games! See how throwing in a fighter or two is a miracle like turning water into gold. Or maybe we've just continued to hear every rationale for the same BS about this team needing fighters when it doesn't.

It's funny how much some people refuse to believe this could be a factor in s***ty attendance, even the slightest bit. Are the people who post on these message boards not fans? Lots of posters have openly said that it IS a factor and there was a survey last year that said it was the #1 factor determining whether they'd go to the games or not. That's not proof?

[Guest Shoreline]

It's funny how much some people refuse to believe this could be a factor in s***ty attendance, even the slightest bit. Are the people who post on these message boards not fans? Lots of posters have openly said that it IS a factor and there was a survey last year that said it was the #1 factor determining whether they'd go to the games or not. That's not proof?

Uh, no. There's no guarantee these fans would ever even buy a ticket. And I bet just about every fan could find something to change about the Wings or even the NHL to make it more personally exciting for them. There's a distinct difference between wanting to overhaul a crummy product and simply being a malcontent and bitching because of some toughness perception or just wanting to be more personally entertained by fighting. The irony about this is, regarding the pissing and moaning about this team, is it's usually the same people spouting off the same nonsense and never recognizing that their philosophy for this team isn't necessarily best for it. Also, to suggest that not having a fighter is a #1 reason for people not buying tickets over a s***ty economy or high ticket prices (which are obviously the case) is to not be taken seriously on the matter. "Lots of posters here" as an argument is facepalm worthy.

[skacore 2]

Uh, no. There's no guarantee these fans would ever even buy a ticket. And I bet just about every fan could find something to change about the Wings or even the NHL to make it more personally exciting for them. There's a distinct difference between wanting to overhaul a crummy product and simply being a malcontent and bitching because of some toughness perception or just wanting to be more personally entertained by fighting. The irony about this is, regarding the pissing and moaning about this team, is it's usually the same people spouting off the same nonsense and never recognizing that their philosophy for this team isn't necessarily best for it. Also, to suggest that not having a fighter is a #1 reason for people not buying tickets over a s***ty economy or high ticket prices (which are obviously the case) is to not be taken seriously on the matter. "Lots of posters here" as an argument is facepalm worthy.

a lot of fans feel differently from you whether you choose to believe it or not

[skacore 2]

When I was in Nashville, and St. Louis for Red Wing games this past season - I proudly wore my #24 Probert jersey...Many fellow Red Wing fans came up to me to chat...One thing I found universal was that they all miss guys who could play the game with an edge, some nastiness, and drop the mitts when needed...Like me they find this current roster a tad too heavy of Euros, and not enough good Canadian lads...Sounds silly to many here, but I myself just can't identify with this team, and it's why I'd love to see a team like we had in the late 90's over what we have today.

I hear you brother but believe me you are preaching to the choir here... people refuse to believe it could be a factor yet fans will openly admit it over and over again

[mmamolo 287]

There is a huge difference between having goons on your roster and tough guys who can play with an edge and are willing to fight. I don't think you'd get an argument from anyone here if Detroit wanted to sign someone like Shanahan was in his prime. He could play, score and fight. But do we need a guy like Boogard? Absolutely not.

I think when teams signs goons to boost attendance it's just a cop out. Winning, deep playoff drives and championships will sell tickets more so than short sighted goons. However, personally I do believe that gritty, edgy guys are intrical parts of building championship teams.

Look at the lineups of each of the Cup Wins for the Wings:

1997: Shanahan, McCarty, Lapointe, Kocur, Knuble and Konstantinov

1998: same as 1997 minus Vlad

2002:Shanahan, McCarty, Fischer, Chelios, Oluasson

2008: Lilja, Stuart, Kronwall, CLeary, Franzen, DRake

Now not all of those guys will fight but they all add grit for sure. It is important and I dont think anyone is disputing that.

Also, for the record I hope to god they do not bring back Jason Williams

Edited July 28, 2009 by mmamolo

[skacore 2]

There is a huge difference between having goons on your roster and tough guys who can play with an edge and are willing to fight. I don't think you'd get an argument from anyone here if Detroit wanted to sign someone like Shanahan was in his prime. He could play, score and fight. But do we need a guy like Boogard? Absolutely not.

I think when teams signs goons to boost attendance it's just a cop out. Winning, deep playoff drives and championships will sell tickets more so than short sighted goons. However, personally I do believe that gritty, edgy guys are intrical parts of building championship teams.

Look at the lineups of each of the Cup Wins for the Wings:

1997: Shanahan, McCarty, Lapointe, Kocur, Knuble and Konstantinov

1998: same as 1997 minus Vlad

2002:Shanahan, McCarty, Fischer, Chelios, Oluasson

2008: Lilja, Stuart, Kronwall, CLeary, Franzen, DRake

Now not all of those guys will fight but they all add grit for sure. It is important and I dont think anyone is disputing that.

Also, for the record I hope to god they do not bring back Jason Williams

2008: Downey & McCarty

[mmamolo 287]

yeah I just tried to show the guys that played somewhat regularly but you're right, i listed some earlier ones that werent huge parts of the team so I should have shown Downey and McCarty on the 2008 team. But that only furthers my point. Thanks bud

[pockets 9]

i wouldnt mind seeing use getting a guy in the mold of a shanny but a goon would be useless for the wings i see alot people harp on Big Bert for taking stupid penalties, what do you think a goon is going to do when he does see ice time?

add in the fact that theres talk of getting rid of staged fights that makes a goon slightly more useless

i saw someone post on another thread that guys like Getzlaf, Jarome and Morrow all get drafted in the first round and the wings usually dont get a high enough pick to get a player in that mold

i personally think if holland had a chance to draft a guy like that he would. By the time the wings get on the clock all thats left are gritty guys with some skill, or small-ish euro skill players

i see your point if we got tougher and more nasty they'd probably sell more tickets but thats not the end all be all. A fighter ist gonna make the tickets prices drop or the economy fix itself and those are also deciding factors in how many tickets sell. If all three of those things changed then we'd be seeing sellouts in the Joe

[MC5Rock 0]

There is a huge difference between having goons on your roster and tough guys who can play with an edge and are willing to fight. I don't think you'd get an argument from anyone here if Detroit wanted to sign someone like Shanahan was in his prime. He could play, score and fight. But do we need a guy like Boogard? Absolutely not.

I think when teams signs goons to boost attendance it's just a cop out. Winning, deep playoff drives and championships will sell tickets more so than short sighted goons. However, personally I do believe that gritty, edgy guys are intrical parts of building championship teams.

I gotta agree. I loved the Bruise Brothers, the McCarty fights with Caudia, etc, but IMO they knew when to pick a fight and when to let the skill guys play. Goons are a dime a dozen, I'd rather have skill guys who can score and hold their own in a fight, and IMO the Euro guys, at least on the Wings, are tough enough. I don't know about Kronwall's fighting ability but he doesn't need to when he can hit like a ton of bricks.

[mmamolo 287]

I gotta agree. I loved the Bruise Brothers, the McCarty fights with Caudia, etc, but IMO they knew when to pick a fight and when to let the skill guys play. Goons are a dime a dozen, I'd rather have skill guys who can score and hold their own in a fight, and IMO the Euro guys, at least on the Wings, are tough enough. I don't know about Kronwall's fighting ability but he doesn't need to when he can hit like a ton of bricks.

This is absoltuely 100% right. The Wings european players are underrated a lot of the time for the toughness. Detroit doesnt need pure fighters when almost all of their euro forwards are as tough as they are. It really disgusts me to hear ppl claim that Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Franzen aren't as tough as they really are. Granted, Hudler, Samuelsson and FIlppula could stand to toughen up a little bit but overall Detroit is a tough team. They out muscled the all mighty Anaheim Ducks in the playoffs (the NHL's bs model franchise for toughness).