Jason Williams Offered 1 Year Contract

[egroen 384]

Crosby did jack s*** all finals, the 'emotion' was pure bulls***

I guess it wasn't just Penguins fans who bought into the 1980 Olympics allusions (Penguins - USA and Red Wings - Red Army).... or was it???

[Guest micah]

It's been a decade since the Wings have had over 30 fights in a season, and a far cry from when we saw 50+ or 100+ in a season.

Learn what a strawman fallacy is before you throw the term around....

I know what a strawman falacy is. You built a pretty one when you implied that I was unhappy with Wings toughness (or lack of fights for that matter) over the last decade. You made up a position that I don't hold and then argued against it.

I'd like to see most of the Wings drop 'em more, sure - but my main beef is with the fact that last year and two years ago, the Wings refused to dress anyone who was even able to take care of themselves. That wasn't the case when they dressed McCarty, Shanahan or Downey -which they did for most of the last decade. I've said 1000 times that every hockey game doesn't need a fight, but every hockey game needs fighters - guys who are willing and able to go if the situation calls for it. For most of the 2000s, we've had such a guy.

[Cern 0]

I guess it wasn't just Penguins fans who bought into the 1980 Olympics allusions (Penguins - USA and Red Wings - Red Army).... or was it???

God, if I hear that ******* 'islanders-oilers' comparison being made to the wings-penguins one more time I'm going to punch someone in the face. Noone specific, just someone.

[Guest Shoreline]

Why would i support a team that doesn't support the style of play i prefer? Just doesn't make sense. I bled Red and White my whole life. Just so happens I am fed up with seeing a team with no back bone. I could care less about winning if it means doing it methodical and boring, or supporting my home town team just to stick to my roots, It's not like I am jumping off a bandwagon because the team isn't successful. It's because they just don't meet my needs as a hockey fan. I want to win just as much as the next person. But i love fighting, hitting and chirping. Something that rarely happens during red wings games.

Within the past 2 seasons i have been to 8 Wings games. It's not like I wasn't dedicated to the team, But i just dont get what i want out of the wings.

Where the f*** were you during the playoffs? Hitting and chirping happened almost as much as shooting.

And why is it that every time a person makes an argument related to this they need to come up with s*** like "I've been a Wings fan for 540 years!"? .. As if that should somehow put their argument out of reach from criticism when it makes no sense.

Plain and simple, you hate the machine-like manner the Wings have played in the last oh, 13+ years. Winning isn't enough for you, you want more. Understandable. So I'll placate to the stereotype made in this page and suggest rooting for another team or getting your rocks off watching UFC or boxing.

The thing about malcontents are, they aren't satisfied and never are, until they get what they want. The Wings players, staff, and management are humans. If you had a woman you wouldn't ***** at her until she had momma-like hips, a slender Jennifer Love-Hewitt figure, and **** like Lisa Lipps, I imagine. It's ABSOLUTELY OKAY not to have everything you want and be perfectly happy. Just letting you know, because it's you who's got a problem with a team that's had the same mindset since 95/96. It's hard to believe people were ever fans this long if they're complaining about a system that's been in place for three, almost four coaches, as if the Wings backing away from fighting is some new revelation. It's not.

I've given a comparison many times about 49ers fans and a specific group of fans here are just like the way Niners fans were during that long streak of championships and deep playoff runs. They cannot just shut the f*** up and enjoy a ride like this while it lasts.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Shoreline

[Guest micah]

Ah, the slippery slope argument, another classic.

LET'S SNEAK NUCLEAR BOMBS INTO THE OPPONENTS LOCKER ROOMS TOO, THAT SOUNDS TOTALLY RATIONAL AND NOT RIDICULOUSLY OUT OF PROPORTION TO THE RULES OF THE GAME.

Right. so I was supposed to understand that when you said "How teams win is completely irrelevant", you really meant "How teams win is completely irrelevant, as long as they don't break rules or cheat or do any on the likely 1000s of other tyhings I wouldn't want my team doing". See, I was actually trying to compliment you. I trust that you're not such a s***ty person that you reall don't care what lengths a team goes to to win, and you get all upset at me for it. when you say "How teams win is completely irrelevant", and I say "what if they cheat or attempt to injure?" - is that really such a slippery slope? I mean, teams have cheated and attempted to injure before, those aren't exactly nuclear bomb scenerios.

Seriously, stop trying to be a smart-alecky dick and get real. Style of play and blatantly breaking the rules of the game aren't like things, if you didn't have the rationality of a 12-year-old you'd understand that. It's a completely moot point anyway given that "Attempting to injur another teams' star players" is the sort of broad-street-bully approach YOU essentially are pushing for.

Nope. I advocate tough, hard-nosed hockey, not attempts at injurry. I advocate "intending to hurt", not "intending to injur". Most fighters see it my way. They don't seek to maim their opponents, they seek to win the fight and they sincerely hope they don't injure their opponents in doing so. Same with guys who throw big checks. Most don't want to go knee-on-knee, they don't want to see the guy they hit get his bare head smashed on the ice, etc. They want to bruise and intimidate and out-muscle, not injur.

[Guest micah]

Crosby did jack s*** all finals, the 'emotion' was pure bulls***

Well, he lifted the Cup, that was something. He also captained his team to a Stanley Cup victory. No other Captain in the NHL is a current stanley Cup champion. Just Crosby. He's the only one. At the pinacle. All alone. Where everybody else wants to be. Crosby. Captain crosby. Stanley Cup Champion Crosby. It just rolls off the lips so well. No other current Captain is Cahmpion. There are a few former-champs and also-rans out there, sure, but only one man at the top. Crosby. Crosby.

[djohns74 3]

Wow, lots more sarcasm and hostility in this thread than is typical (and that's saying a lot!) And very little of it directly relating to Jason Williams...

On topic, Williams at 2.5m over 2 seasons would be perfectly fine. The same price for one season is ludicrous, no way that was the offer.

[egroen 384]

I know what a strawman falacy is. You built a pretty one when you implied that I was unhappy with Wings toughness (or lack of fights for that matter) over the last decade. You made up a position that I don't hold and then argued against it.

I'd like to see most of the Wings drop 'em more, sure - but my main beef is with the fact that last year and two years ago, the Wings refused to dress anyone who was even able to take care of themselves. That wasn't the case when they dressed McCarty, Shanahan or Downey -which they did for most of the last decade. I've said 1000 times that every hockey game doesn't need a fight, but every hockey game needs fighters - guys who are willing and able to go if the situation calls for it. For most of the 2000s, we've had such a guy.

Right... you're just "peachy-keen" as long as the Red Wings dresses at least a fighter or two, huh?

You'd never ***** about Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Franzen, Chelios, Hudler, Kronwall, Draper, Maltby, Samuelsson ... pretty much all the Wings roster and call them "cowards" and "*******" on a consistent basis at all. No, of course not... what was I thinking??? How could i ever throw such a malicious accustation your way?

I swear, every third post from you is ripping on a Wings player... when you aren't praising the Ducks, Pronger or Crosby.

Edited July 30, 2009 by egroen

[Cern 0]

Right. so I was supposed to understand that when you said "How teams win is completely irrelevant", you really meant "How teams win is completely irrelevant, as long as they don't break rules or cheat or do any on the likely 1000s of other tyhings I wouldn't want my team doing".

You're right, my mistake. I was implying you'd be able to interpret my statements with a shred of common sense in mind, but apparently that was too much to ask.

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

I take it you're unaware of the fact that the Preds are in the 25% of teams least likely to fight, right? You should watch hockey, I bet you'd like it.

Why is everyone giving xBraveheartx a bad time? I say I'm a wings fan forever, even though I do not like their current style of play, and I get told "Go root for the Ducks, go be a Flyers fan", etc. Braveheart says he doesn't like the Wings' current style of play and he's gonna find a different team, and he gets lauded by the same crowd.

This must be one of thos e"smart, classy" Wings fans I keep reading about.

Yeah, I don't understand why the "non" fighting ppl get so upset. All he said was he liked a "brand" of hockey that the Wings don't currently exude.

[Guest Shoreline]

Yeah, I don't understand why the "non" fighting ppl get so upset. All he said was he liked a "brand" of hockey that the Wings don't currently exude.

I don't understand either. He's never mentioned that this team has ***** European players, nor has he ever taken a complete crap on Lidstrom being captain. What is everyone upset about?

[Guest micah]

Right... you're just "peachy-keen" as long as the Red Wings dresses at least a fighter or two, huh?

You'd never ***** about Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Franzen, Chelios, Hudler, Kronwall, Draper, Maltby, Samuelsson ... pretty much all the Wings roster and call them "cowards" and "*******" on a consistent basis at all. No, of course not... what was I thinking??? How could i ever throw such a malicious accustation your way?

I swear, every third post from you is ripping on a Wings player... when you aren't praising the Ducks, Pronger or Crosby.

I also like to brag about being more succesful and better looking than other posters. I'm not a one trick pony.

Pronger and Crosby deserve praise, they are superstars, elite players.

Franzen, Sammy and Maltby arecowardly *******, and I don't think you'd really argue otherwise.

I've said before and I'll say again that I retract my Dats-bashing. He has really developed into a complete player as of late, and his testicles apear to have descended. Good for him!

Homer I have no strong oppinion on, except that he isn't even 1/2 the player Pronger is and he should have manned-up and acceptec Pronger's fight invite for the good of the team - unless of course he's SO weak that he thinks a non-fighter like Pronger would put him in the hospital. Really, I'm more conceraned about the fact that he kinda sucks as a hockey player these days and I hope he never sees a sniff of the top 6 again. Park his pokey ass on the 4th line with the other unskilled hacks until the we're on th epowerplay, then let him do the one thing he does well.

As I Red wing fan, I have the duty to hate Chelios forever for the cheapshots he habitually made on Yzerman. Worse than anything that Pronger has ever done to us.

Hudler is ugly and my wife doesn't like watching games with me because she says "he's uglier than Chelios!". I like it when she watches games with me, so I hope Hudler goes to play in Moscow and never comes back. My wife thinks Downey is hot. I kinda do too. I hope we sign him again.

Lidstrom I like well enough, though I think his skills are declining faster than some around here do. I wish that he were a more vocal leader, and I think that Captains should generally be the guys who set the tone for the team. If a team is to have an identity, it should start from the Captain and flow down. See Yteve Yzerman, doing the "championship belt" thing for Probert. See Sakic beating up Gilmour - displaying to all that he is not a special class of player, he can get dirty with the rest of them, and is not above anything. See Messier being an absolute dick to everybody he played against. I like captains who play a good, skilled, disiplined game but also have some passion. All that said, I still like Lids, and I think he's a fine interim Captain until Zetts gets the job.

I think I've mostly left Zetterberg and Kronner alone, haven't I? I really like Cleary and Osgood. I like(d) Lilja, Ericsson, Hossa, Ablekader, Helm and Stewart too.

Edited July 30, 2009 by micah

[kook_10 1,705]

Loyalty to your team includes seeing them through good and bad times. I can certainly see how people could be annoyed when the bandwagon 95'ers start to hop off.

[Guest micah]

Loyalty to your team includes seeing them through good and bad times. I can certainly see how people could be annoyed when the bandwagon 95'ers start to hop off.

It's going to break alot of hearts I'm sure. there are alot of people who have convinced themselves that Red Wings fans are different and special, not like the bandwagon fans all those other teams have. Someday the wings will suck, and hearts will break as truths emerge. The true fans (like you and I, I suspect) will remain - cheering what we like and jeering what we don't, just like always.

[gcom007 1,465]

I also like to brag about being more succesful and better looking than other posters. I'm not a one trick pony.

Pronger and Crosby deserve praise, they are superstars, elite players.

Franzen, Sammy and Maltby arecowardly *******, and I don't think you'd really argue otherwise.

I've said before and I'll say again that I retract my Dats-bashing. He has really developed into a complete player as of late, and his testicles apear to have descended. Good for him!

Homer I have no strong oppinion on, except that he isn't even 1/2 the player Pronger is and he should have manned-up and acceptec Pronger's fight invite for the good of the team - unless of course he's SO weak that he thinks a non-fighter like Pronger would put him in the hospital. Really, I'm more conceraned about the fact that he kinda sucks as a hockey player these days and I hope he never sees a sniff of the top 6 again. Park his pokey ass on the 4th line with the other unskilled hacks until the we're on th epowerplay, then let him do the one thing he does well.

As I Red wing fan, I have the duty to hate Chelios forever for the cheapshots he habitually made on Yzerman. Worse than anything that Pronger has ever done to us.

Hudler is ugly and my wife doesn't like watching games with me because she says "he's uglier than Chelios!". I like it when she watches games with me, so I hope Hudler goes to play in Moscow and never comes back. My wife thinks Downey is hot. I kinda do too. I hope we sign him again.

Lidstrom I like well enough, though I think his skills are declining faster than some around here do. I wish that he were a more vocal leader, and I think that Captains should generally be the guys who set the tone for the team. If a team is to have an identity, it should start from the Captain and flow down. See Yteve Yzerman, doing the "championship belt" thing for Probert. See Sakic beating up Gilmour - displaying to all that he is not a special class of player, he can get dirty with the rest of them, and is not above anything. See Messier being an absolute dick to everybody he played against. I like captains who play a good, skilled, disiplined game but also have some passion. All that said, I still like Lids, and I think he's a fine interim Captain until Zetts gets the job.

I think I've mostly left Zetterberg and Kronner alone, haven't I? I really like Cleary and Osgood. I like(d) Lilja, Ericsson, Hossa, Ablekader, Helm and Stewart too.

How long have you been following the Wings? If you've been watching throughout Maltby's entire career with the Wings, I would think you wouldn't be calling him a cowardly *****.

[Guest micah]

Oh, btw - I've always liked Jason Williams and I'm happy to hear he's coming back.

Remember that time when Bootland was doing his best not to fight Cairns and Willy got beat up by Asham for trying to beat up Jason Blake? Good times.

[Guest Shoreline]

It's going to break alot of hearts I'm sure. there are alot of people who have convinced themselves that Red Wings fans are different and special, not like the bandwagon fans all those other teams have. Someday the wings will suck, and hearts will break as truths emerge. The true fans (like you and I, I suspect) will remain - cheering what we like and jeering what we don't, just like always.

They're not really different and special. However, given the s*** you say, while this team is WINNING, about players on this team, I can only wonder the vitriol you'll spew when the team isn't winning.

Oh, btw - I've always liked Jason Williams and I'm happy to hear he's coming back.

Remember that time when Bootland was doing his best not to fight Cairns and Willy got beat up by Asham for trying to beat up Jason Blake? Good times.

Yeah. My memories were of Williams scoring. But to be a good player he should probably be able to kick Brock Lesnar's ass.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Shoreline

[Guest micah]

How long have you been following the Wings? If you've been watching throughout Maltby's entire career with the Wings, I would think you wouldn't be calling him a cowardly *****.

Long enough that I remember being happy that he was coming to Detroit from Edmonton. He was always, as I recall, a cowardly *****. Big mouth, unable and unwilling to back it up.

[NGKEIB 32]

Calling Maltby a coward seems pretty special. He chooses not to fight. Some people are clearly very annoyed by this, but just think about how people on the other team must feel? Quite irritated I imagine. Just because he runs his mouth and draws penalties and doesn't fight does not make him a coward in any sense.

[egroen 384]

I also like to brag about being more succesful and better looking than other posters. I'm not a one trick pony.

Pronger and Crosby deserve praise, they are superstars, elite players. Franzen and Maltby are cowardly *******, and I don't think you'd really argue otherwise.

I've said before and I'll say again that I retract my Dats-bashing. He has really developed into a complete player as of late, and his testicles apear to have descended. Good for him!

Homer I have no strong oppinion on, except that he isn't even 1/2 the player Pronger is and he should have manned-up and acceptec Pronger's fight invite for the good of the team - unless of course he's SO weak that he thinks a non-fighter like Pronger would put him in the hospital. Really, I'm more conceraned about the fact that he kinda sucks as a hockey player these days and I hope he never sees a sniff of the top 6 again. Park his pokey ass on the 4th line with the other unskilled hacks until the we're on th epowerplay, then let him do the one thing he does well.

As I Red wing fan, I have the duty to hate Chelios forever for the cheapshots he habitually made on Yzerman. Worse than anything that Pronger has ever done to us.

Hudler is ugly and my wife doesn't like watching games with me because she says "he's uglier than Chelios!". I like it when she watches games with me, so I hope Hudler goes to play in Moscow and never comes back. My wife thinks Downey is hot. I kinda do too. I hope we sign him again.

Lidstrom I like well enough, though I think his skills are declining faster than some around here do. I wish that he were a more vocal leader, and I think that Captains should generally be the guys who set the tone for the team. If a team is to have an identity, it should start from the Captain and flow down. See Yteve Yzerman, doing the "championship belt" thing for Probert. See Sakic beating up Gilmour - displaying to all that he is not a special class of player, he can get dirty with the rest of them, and is not above anything. See Messier being an absolute dick to everybody he played against. I like captains who play a good, skilled, disiplined game but also have some passion. All that said, I still like Lids, and I think he's a fine interim Captain until Zetts gets the job.

I think I've mostly left Zetterberg and Kronner alone, haven't I? I really like Cleary and Osgood. I like(d) Lilja, Ericsson, Hossa, Ablekader, Helm and Stewart too.

You're such an exhuberant downer you'd bring pom-poms to the Negative Nancy Convention.

Sure, it sucks to see a Red Wings back down, take a dive, etc... no one is denying they aren't the Anaheim Ducks when it comes to physical play, intimidation and answering the bell -- but for goodness sakes, they have a lot of other great qualities, which you can't seem to mention without smearning s*** on them in the same breath. It's flat-out annoying.

"Kronwall had a nice hit there... too bad he's too much of a ***** to raise the gloves afterwards"

"Hudler has a ton of heart... too bad he's ugly and my neice could beat him up"

"Konstantinov was a warrior... too bad he couldn't fight for s***"

"Lidstrom is an amazing player... too bad he's a horrible captain"

Do you do that with your wife?

"Wow, that was an amazing dinner and I loved my anniversary present... too bad you've gained a few pounds over the years"

"You look lovely tonight... just wish I couldn't see that mole from here"

Your kids?

"Great game tonight! ... too bad you got schooled by that girl once"

"I'm so proud of you! ... except for the fact that you're short, obnoxious and can't stop picking your nose"

Pure obnoxious behavior.

Edited July 30, 2009 by egroen

[Guest Shoreline]

You're such an exhuberant downer you'd bring pom-poms to the Negative Nancy Convention.

Sure, it sucks to see a Red Wings back down, take a dive, etc... no one is denying they aren't the Anaheim Ducks when it comes to physical play, intimidation and answering the bell -- but for goodness sakes, they have a lot of other great qualities, which you can't seem to mention without smearning s*** on them in the same breath. It's flat-out annoying.

"Kronwall had a nice hit there... too bad he's too much of a ***** to raise the gloves afterwards"

"Hudler has a ton of heart... too bad he's ugly and my neice could beat him up"

"Konstantinov was a warrior... too bad he couldn't fight for s***"

"Lidstrom is an amazing player... too bad he's a horrible captain"

Do you do that with your wife?

"Wow, that was an amazing dinner and I loved my anniversary present... too bad you've gained a few pounds over the years"

"You look lovely tonight... just wish I couldn't see that mole from here"

Your kids?

"Great game tonight! ... too bad you got schooled by that girl once"

"I'm so proud of you! ... except for the fact that you're short, obnoxious and can't stop picking your nose"

Pure obnoxious behavior.

100% spot on analogies.

[RedFX 48]

I take it you're unaware of the fact that the Preds are in the 25% of teams least likely to fight, right? You should watch hockey, I bet you'd like it.

Why is everyone giving xBraveheartx a bad time? I say I'm a wings fan forever, even though I do not like their current style of play, and I get told "Go root for the Ducks, go be a Flyers fan", etc. Braveheart says he doesn't like the Wings' current style of play and he's gonna find a different team, and he gets lauded by the same crowd.

This must be one of thos e"smart, classy" Wings fans I keep reading about.

Thank you for telling me about the team located in my own backyard...I was really looking for an in depth analysis about the fighting abilities of the Nashville Predators. Unfortunately, I think you missed the point of that statement all together.

It's one thing to say, "I wish the Wings had more toughness." It's a completely different thing to say "I'd rather our team beat the crap out of people and lose than play skill hockey and win anything." If he wants to switch loyalties to a team that fights more, fine, more power to him. But last time I checked, fighting, while fun to watch, doesn't get you jack s*** in the standings. But hey, only ******* dream about winning the Stanley Cup, right?

Instead of someone who'll fight, I'll take the guy who will give up his body to block a shot late in the game. Instead of someone who can beat a 2-minute-a-game player's face in, I'll take the Euro ***** who can shut down the other team's number one star for 20 minutes a game. Instead of a guy who'll get revenge for hitting one of our players, I'll take the guy who will despite injury, take a hit in the corner in order to make a play on the puck. That's the toughness I'm looking for, and that's the toughness that wins championships

[Guest Shoreline]

Thank you for telling me about the team located in my own backyard...I was really looking for an in depth analysis about the fighting abilities of the Nashville Predators. Unfortunately, I think you missed the point of that statement all together.

It's one thing to say, "I wish the Wings had more toughness." It's a completely different thing to say "I'd rather our team beat the crap out of people and lose than play skill hockey and win anything." If he wants to switch loyalties to a team that fights more, fine, more power to him. But last time I checked, fighting, while fun to watch, doesn't get you jack s*** in the standings. But hey, only ******* dream about winning the Stanley Cup, right?

Instead of someone who'll fight, I'll take the guy who will give up his body to block a shot late in the game. Instead of someone who can beat a 2-minute-a-game player's face in, I'll take the Euro ***** who can shut down the other team's number one star for 20 minutes a game. Instead of a guy who'll get revenge for hitting one of our players, I'll take the guy who will despite injury, take a hit in the corner in order to make a play on the puck. That's the toughness I'm looking for, and that's the toughness that wins championships

Actually, replace the "I'll take" with "the Red Wings will take". As you can tell, the musing about the types of players you (and the team) would rather avoid, is basically a trip into fantasyland that some spend far too much time venturing to. For those of us who actually do enjoy seeing a fight, but realistically, it's very much recognizable that micah turns a sideshow into the main event. I'm not sure if it's to project some manly image or if all he's interested in, with the NHL, is fighting.

Edit: Which reminds me of a South Park episode about Russell Crowe!

Edited July 30, 2009 by Shoreline

[RedFX 48]

Remember that time when Bootland was doing his best not to fight Cairns and Willy got beat up by Asham for trying to beat up Jason Blake? Good times.

Remember that time the Wings won that Stanley Cup while Cairns and Asham did jack s***?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Crosby did jack s*** all finals, the 'emotion' was pure bulls***

This. Malkin had more right to raise the Cup first and act overjoyed.