For the last time...

[stevkrause 1,247]

as a public service announcement to this board...

Brad Stuart is a perfect number 4 D-Man - he is not a 1, he is not a 2, hell, he's not even our number 3 (while he'd be a 2 on any other team) he took a discount to stay here and he has... for the last f'in time... A...

NO.

TRADE.

CLAUSE.

[b.shanafan14 733]

I honestly have no idea why we would ever even want to trade him. The guy is extremely solid, especially as a pair with Kronwall come spring time.

[stevkrause 1,247]

I honestly have no idea why we would ever even want to trade him. The guy is extremely solid, especially as a pair with Kronwall come spring time.

I agree... I'm just getting VERY annoyed with people even suggesting it, as it's not only a stupid move, but not even an option.

[egroen 384]

The 09/10 season is the final season of his NTC.

[wingfan1991 221]

I think Stuart rocks no way we let him go!!!!

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Thank you for finally explaining it to some of the not so bright posters on this site.

However, I still think we should trade him for a tougher, stay at home defenseman who actually fights.

[mmamolo 287]

Thank you for finally explaining it to some of the not so bright posters on this site.

However, I still think we should trade him for a tougher, stay at home defenseman who actually fights.

Granted Stuart doesn't fight but he is a tough, stay at home defenseman. At $3.75M/yr I don't think you can do any better.

[Leadzedder 4]

Convince Rafalski to waive his no trade clause. Sign Schneider to 2 mil. Free up 4 mil. Welcome back Hudler or even better sign Zherdev to 10 mil for 3 years. With the freed up space next year, reinvest into a fella named Ilya.

Kovalchuk Datsyuk Zherdev

Franzen Zetterberg Axelsson

Leino Filppula Cleary

Abdelkader Helm Draper

I admit... it gives me wood.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Stuart needs to stay, good canadian boy. Plus he hits, we dont really have a surplus of that during the regular season on the backend.

[Zion 93]

Convince Rafalski to waive his no trade clause. Sign Schneider to 2 mil. Free up 4 mil. Welcome back Hudler or even better sign Zherdev to 10 mil for 3 years. With the freed up space next year, reinvest into a fella named Ilya.

Kovalchuk Datsyuk Zherdev

Franzen Zetterberg Axelsson

Leino Filppula Cleary

Abdelkader Helm Draper

I admit... it gives me wood.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

[AD2044 0]

Thank you Steve. All this Stuart trade crap was getting on my last nerve also.

[mjlegend 155]

explain?

Bump, for I too want to know how an injury-prone 40-year-old defenceman is a better option for a top-pair blueliner than a guy who was third in the league in points for D.

[mmamolo 287]

Bump, for I too want to know how an injury-prone 40-year-old defenceman is a better option for a top-pair blueliner than a guy who was third in the league in points for D.

True. But even ignoring that I'd be interested to see how his money plans are worked out. It doesnt seem possible in my mind so Im curious

[Leadzedder 4]

Bump, for I too want to know how an injury-prone 40-year-old defenceman is a better option for a top-pair blueliner than a guy who was third in the league in points for D.

What are you going on about? I'd much prefer Rafalski then Schneider. I'm not dumb. I like Rafalski, fits teh team very well. But if you're gonna talk about trimming salary, he's a sensible place to look. Currently we have 5 (could argue 6) top 4 defencemen. Ericsson isn't a number 5. Neither are the 4 guys we got above him.

So the comparison wasn't Rafalski / Schneider. The comparison is Rafalski / Kovalchuk. I choose Kovalchuk. Schneider just happens to be a great way to ease some of the pain this year for pennies compared. You with me?

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Thank you for finally explaining it to some of the not so bright posters on this site.

However, I still think we should trade him for a tougher, stay at home defenseman who actually fights.

Even though he doesnt fight,I think Stuart should stay here.He's very good defensively.I'd like to see Rafalski gone(im fully aware he has a n-t-c)and replace him with,as GMR said,a rugged,tough defensemen.

Lidstrom-Ericsson

Stuart-Kronwall

Lebda-?

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Convince Rafalski to waive his no trade clause. Sign Schneider to 2 mil. Free up 4 mil. Welcome back Hudler or even better sign Zherdev to 10 mil for 3 years. With the freed up space next year, reinvest into a fella named Ilya.

Kovalchuk Datsyuk Zherdev

Franzen Zetterberg Axelsson

Leino Filppula Cleary

Abdelkader Helm Draper

I admit... it gives me wood.

and then you woke up stuck to your bed....dreamer!

stuart isn't going anywhere. once kronwall refines his game and quits running around all the time people will quit blaming his mistakes on stuart, who is a better DEFENSIVE defenseman.

[Jedi 1,865]

This threads's already running perilously close to the end of the line.

If you want to discuss the defensive situation, like whether we'd be better or worse off with certain defenseman, then that's fine. But keep it on track, civil, and keep your posts meaningful please.

Thanks!

[b.shanafan14 733]

What are you going on about? I'd much prefer Rafalski then Schneider. I'm not dumb. I like Rafalski, fits teh team very well. But if you're gonna talk about trimming salary, he's a sensible place to look. Currently we have 5 (could argue 6) top 4 defencemen. Ericsson isn't a number 5. Neither are the 4 guys we got above him.

So the comparison wasn't Rafalski / Schneider. The comparison is Rafalski / Kovalchuk. I choose Kovalchuk. Schneider just happens to be a great way to ease some of the pain this year for pennies compared. You with me?

Except it'll never be Rafalski/Kovalchuk. I'm assuming that the only way this would ever work in a million years is if you're assuming all of Lidsrom's salary is gone after this season, in which case you're suggesting Rafalski+Lidstrom/Schneider+Kovalchuk.

No sale. I would love Kovalchuk on the team as much as anyone, but the league's salary restrictions prevent a team like the Red Wings from having Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, and a Kovalchuk caliber player long-term and having any kind of success. You can't play with 4 all-stars and 16 AHLers and win consistently, thats why Hossa is gone.

Right now the Wings are about where their going to be offensively for the next several years from the core, now its all about development of players like Filppula, Helm, Abdelkader, Leino, etc. from inside the organization and moving around depth forwards until we have the ideal group. If anything is just the way we are going to want it right now, its the defensive core of Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Ericcson, Lilja. Its so well balanced and talented, and relatively cheap, its almost absurd!

[Echolalia 2,961]

A roster including

- Dats -

Franzen Zetterberg -

Leino Filppulla Cleary

- - Draper

- Schneider

Stuart Kronwall

Eriksson -

Ozzy

Howard

takes up 36.7M, which leaves 20.1M to fill in those blanks with the players you suggested. This base number is current finances already tied up in contracts, and your contract for Schneider, so there's no real way to lower it.

So the question becomes how do you split 20.1M up between Kovalchuk, Zherdev, Axellson (unproven at the nhl by the way), Helm, Abdelkader, Lidstrom, a 6th defensman, and possibly a 13th forward/7th defensman for injury's sake?

Penciling in Kovy at 7M is a discount, Zherdev purportedly wants 4.5M (but lets do 4M for the Red Wing discount), Axellson at .75M cuz he'll be a rookie, Abby and Helm will both be getting new contracts: lets be optimistic and pencil them in at 1M each, Lids at 6 is a big discount that many LGWers don't think will ever happen, and the 6th dman and 13thF/7thD can be anything above league min because I have no clue who you want to put there. But doing the math: 7+4+.75+1+1+6=19.74, which gives you .35M to fill in those last two to three spots. That isn't even enough money for 1 of those spots to be filled.

[dobbles 252]

why would we want schneider back at all?!?!?! i think he would have to be up there with williams and bertuzzi as players we do not want back as fans. obviously not everyone ever agree's, but i would have thought schneider would have went over like a lead balloon. sure rafalski has a high salary and schneider is cheaper, but i don't care what you can do with the extra money it would be a bad move.

as far as stuart, i too am amazed so many want to trade him. though i traded him on nhl09 just because he was playing awful. but i understand that running a team in a video game is different from real life!

[mmamolo 287]

A roster including

- Dats -

Franzen Zetterberg -

Leino Filppulla Cleary

- - Draper

- Schneider

Stuart Kronwall

Eriksson -

Ozzy

Howard

takes up 36.7M, which leaves 20.1M to fill in those blanks with the players you suggested. This base number is current finances already tied up in contracts, and your contract for Schneider, so there's no real way to lower it.

So the question becomes how do you split 20.1M up between Kovalchuk, Zherdev, Axellson (unproven at the nhl by the way), Helm, Abdelkader, Lidstrom, a 6th defensman, and possibly a 13th forward/7th defensman for injury's sake?

Penciling in Kovy at 7M is a discount, Zherdev purportedly wants 4.5M (but lets do 4M for the Red Wing discount), Axellson at .75M cuz he'll be a rookie, Abby and Helm will both be getting new contracts: lets be optimistic and pencil them in at 1M each, Lids at 6 is a big discount that many LGWers don't think will ever happen, and the 6th dman and 13thF/7thD can be anything above league min because I have no clue who you want to put there. But doing the math: 7+4+.75+1+1+6=19.74, which gives you .35M to fill in those last two to three spots. That isn't even enough money for 1 of those spots to be filled.

I agree, his money calcs dont add up bud

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I wouldn't even consider trading Stuart for a second anyways. I would deal Rafalski or Kronwall before Stuart if it came down to it. Stuart was easily the Red Wings second best defenseman for the duration of the playoffs, and when Lidstrom was out, Stuart elevated his solid play even more.

Stuart doesn't always look great through the grind of the regular season, but he has put together two stellar playoff runs since joining the Red Wings. He's a perfect second pairing defenseman.

[Leadzedder 4]

My suggestion if (I know it'll never happen, ever) Rafalski would waive his NTC. Sign Zherdev for 10 mil for 3 years. 3.33 per. Sign Schneider for 2 mil for a year. Fits easily into this year's cap.

Next year.... Sign Kovalchuk to a Zetterberg special. 8 x 8, 6 x2, 1 x2. $78 million over 12 years. 6.5 cap hit. Give Lidstrom 4 mil. Promote our non waiver exempt dudes (Kindl, Kolosov, Abdelkader, Ritola) and bring up Axelsson if he's ready. Lilja or a replacment for a mil. All that for a grand total of 54.25.

Done and done

[Leadzedder 4]

Anyway, you can disagree with the numbers, but I am confident at a minimum we could fit Kovalchuk long term if we didn't have Rafalski and I think that's my main point.