stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted October 15, 2009 + playoffs, but they were better defensively in the playoffs. am I losing my mind... I can't find an article anywhere about it, but I thought I remembered reading a story last year with about 15 games left in the season, where MacClean went back to the D and McCrimmon took over the forwards... which further just drives the point home... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted October 15, 2009 Babcock is the head coach and the only one that can take special interest in any one area unless asked - you are not going to see ANY NHL assistant coach overstep boundaries and try and coach the opposite side he was asked to focus on... he will offer his opinion when asked, but for him to undermine McCrimmon and start butting in, would be worse... I seriously doubt the coaching staff would be so secular. I'm sure they have coach's meetings, and team meetings, with some open discussion. And considering last season, I'd frankly be amazed and disappointed if I were to find out that Babs hadn't asked for any advice from MacLean. Like everyone's been saying, it isn't just 5 games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) I seriously doubt the coaching staff would be so secular. I'm sure they have coach's meetings, and team meetings, with some open discussion. And considering last season, I'd frankly be amazed and disappointed if I were to find out that Babs hadn't asked for any advice from MacLean. Like everyone's been saying, it isn't just 5 games. well, I'm obviously simplifying the dynamic, but MacLean is in NO way as hands on with the D as he would be under his old role, or the PK for that matter... it's just like saying Babs doesn't handle the D at all, because he's not the D coach... they obviously all have input, but the intricacies and day in/day out activities can have a drastic difference when they're coming from a different voice/different leader, regardless of input... it's just like at a job, your department may have several superiors, but the one who works directly above you, is going to have the loudest voice/largest impact in your work - same general idea applies here... Edited October 15, 2009 by stevkrause Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted October 15, 2009 normally these "fire so and so!" threads are just reactionary, but at some point, you have to consider the option. or at least try and figure out what made the team so much better defensively in 08. The roster didn't change that much last season, but they were a different team on the pk, and not in a good way. And it looks like they're picking up where they left off. Goaltending was part of it, but even when he improved in the playoffs, the PK was still a weakness. in short, what the hell is going on?? someone on the Wings coaching staff needs to find the answer that question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Winged_Wheeler 3 Report post Posted October 15, 2009 Title pretty much says it all - what do you guys think? Fire McCrimmon, move MacLean back to D coach (where he was during the 08 cup run) and bring Gallant on board as an assistant handling the offense. I've been telling everyone here that we should have fired McCrimmon last season but no one listened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted October 15, 2009 I've been telling everyone here that we should have fired McCrimmon last season but no one listened. Hey I agreed haha. It's not that it's just him. This team needs a wake up call. A firing would certainly get the attention of the young and veteran players alike. Really it's either the system isn't good, or Lidstrom's aging is effecting him more then we want to admit, and Kronwall/Stuart/Ericsson/Rafalski aren't as good as we thought either. And being most of the players are Stanley Cup Champions and McCrimmon isn't... well... yeah. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted October 15, 2009 It's a good idea, because this team needs a shakeup, but wont trade players to do it. Another thing they should try is what they did in 07. Stick Lidstrom with Meech/Lebda like he was when Lilja sucked, then put Kronwall and Ericsson together, and Rafalski and Stuart, or vice verse. Gotta try something, these d pairings have stunk for well over a year now. Whoever runs the PK needs to pull his head out of his ass, get that going so are goalies arent under siege the whole game and can gain some confidence, so when the defence breaks down (it seems like every 4 or 5 minutes this year, but I digress) he can make a save for us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jasper84 333 Report post Posted October 15, 2009 you're confusing Todd McClellan (the Sharks head coach) with Paul MacLean (our assistant coach) - they were both here in 07/08(cup year) and MacLean is still here as an assistant - MacLean handled the D and McClellan handled the forwards in 07/08 and when McClellan left for the Sharks in the start of the 08/09 season, MacClean moved to the forwards, which is when we brought on McCrimmon to take over the D (yes it can be confusing with all the Irish names, haha) Oh duh, my bad then Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted October 15, 2009 It's a good idea, because this team needs a shakeup, but wont trade players to do it. Another thing they should try is what they did in 07. Stick Lidstrom with Meech/Lebda like he was when Lilja sucked, then put Kronwall and Ericsson together, and Rafalski and Stuart, or vice verse. Gotta try something, these d pairings have stunk for well over a year now. Whoever runs the PK needs to pull his head out of his ass, get that going so are goalies arent under siege the whole game and can gain some confidence, so when the defence breaks down (it seems like every 4 or 5 minutes this year, but I digress) he can make a save for us. McCrimmon handles the PK too... like others have suggested as well, not only would this remove the variable that has changed, but it would cause a shake up and wake-up call to the others... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waitahochiminute 2 Report post Posted October 15, 2009 I think resorting to "shaking things up" to fullfill a dillusion that this season will be a losing one is not what this team needs. I think sticking to the same method that has helped them dominate the west for 10 years is what this team needs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DEVILSWATERBOY 10 Report post Posted October 15, 2009 THIS x 1000 for everyone who says "its only 5 games"... try 87 regular season bouts. I remember 87 is that the year that a few mwmbers of the team were out until 2am the night before game 7 of Western Finals against the Oilers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted October 15, 2009 I think resorting to "shaking things up" to fullfill a dillusion that this season will be a losing one is not what this team needs. I think sticking to the same method that has helped them dominate the west for 10 years is what this team needs. this is more than just "shaking things up" - that's just an additional reason... this is due to the overall year and half + of declining defense on a previously defensive superior team... read the whole thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtlantaHotWings 1,135 Report post Posted October 15, 2009 Easier to fire one coach than 20 players. I would say the Brad experiment is done. The one where you take a crappy coach from a crappy team and bring him to an elite team and see if he can work magic. Except in this case has been strictly black magic...... Granted the boys have played a lot of hockey the last 3 years but even so they still should be in the top 10 of the league in PK. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted October 15, 2009 and that's my biggest problem with McCrimmon - you don't go from one of the best defense's in the league to one of the worst with no significant player changes (if anything an improvement with the addition of Ericsson) over night as we did from 07-08(cup season) to the 08-09 season and thus far this season... and what changed? The defensive coach... seems like more than a coincidence to me... Not to mention having Stuart all season last year. The defense was even more stacked, Hossa was a great defensive forward addition and the team defense was still a joke. I used to think it was just complacency due to the fact that I couldn't fathom the fact that McCrimmon could seriously undue everything the defense was especially given the veteran status of our core, but something's gotta give. I'm completely on board with moving MacLean back to D and hiring someone to take over the vacant spot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CaliWingsNut Report post Posted October 15, 2009 I'm not down on McCrimmon... There's too many variables for any one of us to come close to tell. On the other hand... something has changed (and not good) to our defense. Bringing McLean back to defense would most likely help and I'm for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lamothe 5 Report post Posted October 15, 2009 Hell I'm willing to go ask Chelios if he wants a defensive coaching job right now. AMEN TO THAT! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puckbags 863 Report post Posted October 15, 2009 Well its solved then so here is the plan. Krause you find Illitch's number on the back of Little Caesars take out menu and give him a call. When he answers he's gonna wonder who the hell you are and you tell him you are a avid fan and one of the top thread starters on LGW. Guarantee he's going to know who you are so you ask him for Kenny Hollands cell phone number and he gives it to you. Here in lies the problem, you're gonna call Holland but he isnt gonna know who the hell you are because he doesn't come to this site to listen to hair brain ideas about free agent signings, coaching changes or whether we should have some meat head playing on our 4th line. So after he hangs up on you you call Illitch back and tell him to fire Holland for not repping this site we love or listening to our ideas and tell him to hire a new GM so the new GM can proceed with firing the coaches that you so eagerly want fired and we can all continue on with our average lives ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrazyGangsta 79 Report post Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) - Our PK Rank - 2000 - 2001 - Ranked 6 2001 - 2002 - Ranked 2002 - 2003 - Ranked 7 2003 - 2004 - Ranked 1 LOCK OUT - LOCK OUT Lilja arrives to Detroit 2005 - 2006 - Ranked 3 2006 - 2007 - Ranked 6 2007 - 2008 - Ranked 8 (For the past 7 years I didn't even check before 2002 ... we've been ranked top 10 pk) (--------------------------------) 2008 - 2009 - Ranked 25 Lilja is injured 2009-2010 - Ranked 22 Lilja played a good role in the PK blocking shots and we're missing that right now but keep reading. (--------------------------------) is the following: Assistant Coach Brad McCrimmon enters his second season as a member of the Red Wings’ coaching staff. He has more than 27 years of NHL experience as a player and coach, including three seasons on the blueline with Detroit from 1990-1993. Prior to joining the Red Wings in 2008, McCrimmon spent four seasons as an assistant coach with the Atlanta Thrashers. He has also served as an assistant coach for the Calgary Flames (2000-2003), NY Islanders (1997-98), and with Germany’s Frankfurt Lions in 2004-05. Atlanta Trashers Team Standing 2003 - 2004 ---> 10th place east ... PK ranked 8 2005 - 2006 ---> 10th place east ... PK ranked 25 2006 - 2007 ---> 3rd place east ... PK ranked 26 2007 - 2008 ---> 1th place east ... PK ranked 27 Calgary Team Standings 2000 - 2001 ---> 11th place west ... PK ranked 28 2001 - 2002 ---> 11th place west ... PK ranked 27 2002 - 2003 ---> 6th place west ... PK ranked 13 NY Islanders Standing 1997-1998 ---> 10th place east ... PK ranked 10 My conclusion is fire McCrimmon. Out of 10 years his teams PK has only been in the top 10 only twice. Our PK killed us last year, it's killing us this year also. Since the day McCrimmon has joined the coaching staff this team hasn't ever looked itself. 7 out of 10 of his seasons his PK is ranked in the 20's. Also if you guys take a look even in Atlanta the first year the PK was ranked 8 and dropped in the 20's similar to the red wings scenario which we could see in the stats I've pulled up. What you guys think? Edited October 23, 2009 by KrazyGangsta Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) Nice post, hard to argue against it. I myself haven't been a big fan of McCrimmon's style since he got here, it seems very conservative in the defensive zone. I wouldn't be against seeing what happens if we get a new defensive coach... Edited October 23, 2009 by Carman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShanahanMan 473 Report post Posted October 23, 2009 I've been saying get rid of this dips*** since like game 2 of last season. He just hurts every team he's with. I can't believe Holland has kept him on this long.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alyssa 1 Report post Posted October 23, 2009 I swear McCrimmon is slipping the PK units roofies before a penalty kill or something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Four Report post Posted October 23, 2009 I swear McCrimmon is slipping the PK units roofies before a penalty kill or something. "I swear it's energy tablets... Drink up!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest blueadams Report post Posted October 23, 2009 homer should be relegated to 4th line/pp duty. he is just worthless in 5 on 5 play. roll... 1) datsyuk-zetterberg-cleary...clearly, the best 5 on 5 line that we have to offer. get these guys out there together and we will see mass production. 2) leino-filppula-williams...they've had the best chemistry of any three skaters this season, roll with it. 3) abdelkader-helm-bertuzzi...this could be a very exciting third line, couldn't it? bang, speed, little scoring. 4) may/maltby-draper-holmstrom...minimal ice time for these guys, but whatever, gotta have a place for the specialists. 1) lidstrom-rafalski 2) kronwall-stuart 3) ericsson-kindl...enough already with lebda and meech. give the kid a shot. at the very least, he'll apply some pressure to these guys. osgood TRADE...ozzie has lost his focus, again. bring in a guy that can seriously compete for that starting spot to get him going again. absolutely MUST trade for a competent 2nd goalie. no problem giving up howard here with mccollum/larsson on board. throw in eaves? meech? who knows. something! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted October 23, 2009 homer should be relegated to 4th line/pp duty. he is just worthless in 5 on 5 play. roll... 1) datsyuk-zetterberg-cleary...clearly, the best 5 on 5 line that we have to offer. get these guys out there together and we will see mass production. 2) leino-filppula-williams...they've had the best chemistry of any three skaters this season, roll with it. 3) abdelkader-helm-bertuzzi...this could be a very exciting third line, couldn't it? bang, speed, little scoring. 4) may/maltby-draper-holmstrom...minimal ice time for these guys, but whatever, gotta have a place for the specialists. 1) lidstrom-rafalski 2) kronwall-stuart 3) ericsson-kindl...enough already with lebda and meech. give the kid a shot. at the very least, he'll apply some pressure to these guys. osgood TRADE...ozzie has lost his focus, again. bring in a guy that can seriously compete for that starting spot to get him going again. absolutely MUST trade for a competent 2nd goalie. no problem giving up howard here with mccollum/larsson on board. throw in eaves? meech? who knows. something! this was merged into the wrong thread and doesn't really belong here... Can't we just sticky a "LINE CHANGES/ LINE COMBOS" thread and merge every one of these into it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CaliWingsNut Report post Posted October 24, 2009 (edited) this was merged into the wrong thread and doesn't really belong here... Can't we just sticky a "LINE CHANGES/ LINE COMBOS" thread and merge every one of these into it? Should just name it the blue adams thread. Edit: however that would be rewarding him for his behavior.... Edited October 24, 2009 by CaliWingsNut Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
