dicksmack 33 Report post Posted November 29, 2009 I really hope Bert does well... just keep him the f*** away from Datsyuk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted November 29, 2009 I really hope Bert does well... just keep him the f*** away from Datsyuk. I somewhat agree, but what other options do the Wings have right now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miller Brew 0 Report post Posted November 29, 2009 How does this looks after Flip returns? DZH Bert-Flip-Cleary Eaves-Helm-Drape/Leino May-Abby-Maltby/Miller Only problem with that line combo is no Leino and he needs to be in there. The kid's got skill, he just needs a tad bit of confidence. He should be a 3rd liner. It's hard to break up the Eaves/Helm/Drap line when they bringing so much energy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HudlerFanatic 4 Report post Posted November 29, 2009 I somewhat agree, but what other options do the Wings have right now? Options? I think they exhausted their options a long time ago..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cupforwings 138 Report post Posted November 29, 2009 Im not a Bert HATER persay. But with Franzen , Williams, and Fillpula out ( an entire line ) he is seeing more ice time and should be leading in something... I thought the signing of Bert was desperate, and a waste of money. considering we could of re-signed Conklin and been more secure in the Goaltending dept. (tho with the injuries whos to say Conklin would be having a great year either) It's hard to say he Sucks..... Buts it is also hard to say he should be on Line 1. Exactly Howard has been doing his job, as good as Conklin could have done, so I guess its a good thing we didn't waste money on him... Bert doesn't suck at all.. he will be an awesome 3rd line player when our team is healthy.. You can't expect that guy to score every night. He's not a 1st line player anymore, but he's our only option Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeytown_Ryan 119 Report post Posted November 29, 2009 Exactly Howard has been doing his job, as good as Conklin could have done, so I guess its a good thing we didn't waste money on him... Bert doesn't suck at all.. he will be an awesome 3rd line player when our team is healthy.. You can't expect that guy to score every night. He's not a 1st line player anymore, but he's our only option We wasted our money either way! Bertuzzi has not done what he was brought here to do. Be physical, show grit....Size. He hasnt shown how he use his size and grit and toughness other than to take penalties. Im not saying he SUCKS But he's not great... and should not be treated as such. Granted if goal posts were goals he be leading the league! But close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. I also like that "When our team is healthy" .... How does that help now? we got a little time between now and then. Our ONLY OPTION? Hmm. Zetterberg? Helm? I would even give Abby time on Line 1 to see what he and Dats can do! He's not our ONLY option... Babcock is trying to force chemistry and its not there! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 29, 2009 We wasted our money either way! Bertuzzi has not done what he was brought here to do. Be physical, show grit....Size. He hasnt shown how he use his size and grit and toughness other than to take penalties. Im not saying he SUCKS But he's not great... and should not be treated as such. Granted if goal posts were goals he be leading the league! But close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. I also like that "When our team is healthy" .... How does that help now? we got a little time between now and then. Our ONLY OPTION? Hmm. Zetterberg? Helm? I would even give Abby time on Line 1 to see what he and Dats can do! He's not our ONLY option... Babcock is trying to force chemistry and its not there! He has been as physical as anyone on our team besides Stuart, Abdelkader, or Helm. You are wrong. Babcock thinks he is a better option. Do you know who Babcock is? We have no depth up the middle, Zetterberg and Helm are both centers. It's not worth losing depth down the middle to try and fish for another winger. Bertuzzi is doing his job, you are off base and need to learn to watch hockey not the names on the back of the jerseys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeytown_Ryan 119 Report post Posted November 29, 2009 He has been as physical as anyone on our team besides Stuart, Abdelkader, or Helm. You are wrong. Babcock thinks he is a better option. Do you know who Babcock is? We have no depth up the middle, Zetterberg and Helm are both centers. It's not worth losing depth down the middle to try and fish for another winger. Bertuzzi is doing his job, you are off base and need to learn to watch hockey not the names on the back of the jerseys. Remember that he was brought here to protect players and give a "different dimension" to the game.... has he done this? How? cause all I see is a guy who is failing to achieve what "HE" said he could do himself in interviews. I AM not off base. I may not be on point .. But Im not off base. He is just not worth the money we paid for him is all.. Im not hating him just saying he should NOT be on a pedestal... If losing a little depth at center helps produce offense and wins a couple games..... YES do it! cause its the only way to get things going is to try a little of this and a little of that. Defensively this team is a wreck and Net minders are shakey at best..... we need to try and out score our opponents.. and hitting goal posts doesnt quite do it! DO You know Babcock? since you know what needs to be done why dont you go down and apply for a job! seems like you got it all figured out.... Bert Plays on ALL LINES.....right? I have 2 Wings Jerseys! Home and Away. No Names on them... I love the team. its not about the name on the back of the jersey! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeytown0001 7,652 Report post Posted November 29, 2009 How does this looks after Flip returns? DZH Bert-Flip-Cleary Eaves-Helm-Drape/Leino May-Abby-Maltby/Miller Only problem with that line combo is no Leino and he needs to be in there. The kid's got skill, he just needs a tad bit of confidence. He should be a 3rd liner. It's hard to break up the Eaves/Helm/Drap line when they bringing so much energy. How about after Mule and Williams return: Franzen-Datsyuk-Holmstrom Bertuzzi-Zetterberg-Cleary Leino-Filppula-Williams Eaves/May-Draper-Helm/Maltby Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 29, 2009 Remember that he was brought here to protect players and give a "different dimension" to the game.... has he done this? How? cause all I see is a guy who is failing to achieve what "HE" said he could do himself in interviews. I AM not off base. I may not be on point .. But Im not off base. He is just not worth the money we paid for him is all.. Im not hating him just saying he should NOT be on a pedestal... If losing a little depth at center helps produce offense and wins a couple games..... YES do it! cause its the only way to get things going is to try a little of this and a little of that. Defensively this team is a wreck and Net minders are shakey at best..... we need to try and out score our opponents.. and hitting goal posts doesnt quite do it! DO You know Babcock? since you know what needs to be done why dont you go down and apply for a job! seems like you got it all figured out.... Bert Plays on ALL LINES.....right? I have 2 Wings Jerseys! Home and Away. No Names on them... I love the team. its not about the name on the back of the jersey! He was brought here to play hockey for 1.5 million dollars. For his point production, hitting, and experience it is not a bad contract at all. Your expectations are not very close to reality he is not Franzen, he is not Hossa his shooting % is not going to be over 10% if it was we would be paying him over 4 million. We stack the first PP and that needs to score, Bertuzzi is not on that line that's a bigger problem on offense. I don't know Babcock personally, but I'm adept at picking up on his decisions. It doesn't take a genius to look at the roster and see what the team can realistically do. Until Flippula gets back we are stuck with Bertuzzi playing a role he cannot quite fill, that's life for a team going through tough injuries. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsasuk 2 Report post Posted November 29, 2009 Word! How is this guy still in the league? Every year I say to myself, no one wants this guy. Then of course, we're the ones that sign him. WHY? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeytown0001 7,652 Report post Posted November 29, 2009 (edited) He was brought here to play hockey for 1.5 million dollars. For his point production, hitting, and experience it is not a bad contract at all. Your expectations are not very close to reality he is not Franzen, he is not Hossa his shooting % is not going to be over 10% if it was we would be paying him over 4 million. We stack the first PP and that needs to score, Bertuzzi is not on that line that's a bigger problem on offense. I don't know Babcock personally, but I'm adept at picking up on his decisions. It doesn't take a genius to look at the roster and see what the team can realistically do. Until Flippula gets back we are stuck with Bertuzzi playing a role he cannot quite fill, that's life for a team going through tough injuries. I think people are still expecting him to play like in 2002/03, where he scored over 40 goals. For $1.5 million, he's been a good signing. He's just had an ass backwards case of bad luck. If every one of his shots that rang off the iron had gone in, he'd be easily leading the team in goals right now. Edited November 29, 2009 by Hockeytown0001 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeytown_Ryan 119 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 He was brought here to play hockey for 1.5 million dollars. For his point production, hitting, and experience it is not a bad contract at all. Your expectations are not very close to reality he is not Franzen, he is not Hossa his shooting % is not going to be over 10% if it was we would be paying him over 4 million. We stack the first PP and that needs to score, Bertuzzi is not on that line that's a bigger problem on offense. I don't know Babcock personally, but I'm adept at picking up on his decisions. It doesn't take a genius to look at the roster and see what the team can realistically do. Until Flippula gets back we are stuck with Bertuzzi playing a role he cannot quite fill, that's life for a team going through tough injuries. We Overpaid. My expectations are not for Todd Bertuzzi to put up Hossa numbers.... Thats just a crappy comparison for you to make! I didnt ever say he should be our #1 scoring guy...... I never said he was our "Defensive Forward" answer... I dont think its too much to ask that he stops coughing up the puck and starts burying it when he has the chance....even for 1.5 million dollars. We are never STUCK playing him where he is.... It just continues to happen is all Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 We Overpaid. My expectations are not for Todd Bertuzzi to put up Hossa numbers.... Thats just a crappy comparison for you to make! I didnt ever say he should be our #1 scoring guy...... I never said he was our "Defensive Forward" answer... I dont think its too much to ask that he stops coughing up the puck and starts burying it when he has the chance....even for 1.5 million dollars. We are never STUCK playing him where he is.... It just continues to happen is all He is 3rd on the team in takeaways, he is 5th in Giveaways, he is one of the leader in hits on the team, he's missed 20 less shots than Zetterberg, he is 2nd on the team in shots taken, he has 8 minor penalties tied with Maltby/Homer and behind Kronwall, and 11th in TOI ALL FOR 1.5 MILLION. That's not bad. Kopecky is doing much worse and making more and that's just one example. There are a lot worse contracts right now in the league. Whatever you think you are seeing on the ice is distorted by some sense that Bertuzzi does everything wrong. He does a lot of good things out there and is rewarded for it by playing with Datsyuk. You don't think if he was as bad as you think he is Babcock would of demoted or even sat him like he did Leino. Maybe you should reevaluate what is actually an issue for this team. Bertuzzi happens to be a 3rd liner that has to play on the first line because of injuries. Miller, Matlby, May, Draper, Leino are not viable options over Bertuzzi face it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeytown_Ryan 119 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 He is 3rd on the team in takeaways, he is 5th in Giveaways, he is one of the leader in hits on the team, he's missed 20 less shots than Zetterberg, he is 2nd on the team in shots taken, he has 8 minor penalties tied with Maltby/Homer and behind Kronwall, and 11th in TOI ALL FOR 1.5 MILLION. That's not bad. Kopecky is doing much worse and making more and that's just one example. There are a lot worse contracts right now in the league. Whatever you think you are seeing on the ice is distorted by some sense that Bertuzzi does everything wrong. He does a lot of good things out there and is rewarded for it by playing with Datsyuk. You don't think if he was as bad as you think he is Babcock would of demoted or even sat him like he did Leino. Maybe you should reevaluate what is actually an issue for this team. Bertuzzi happens to be a 3rd liner that has to play on the first line because of injuries. Miller, Matlby, May, Draper, Leino are not viable options over Bertuzzi face it. Finally we agree on SOMETHING! But how is it a REWARD when there no viable options, so you say.. I recall using names like Helm Abby or Zett tho.. not Maltby May, Miller...... Datsyuk is being punished having to play with him and it shows in his play. You can put him on a pedestal IF YOU WANT.... I m not gonna...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Finally we agree on SOMETHING! But how is it a REWARD when there no viable options, so you say.. I recall using names like Helm Abby or Zett tho.. not Maltby May, Miller...... Datsyuk is being punished having to play with him and it shows in his play. You can put him on a pedestal IF YOU WANT.... I m not gonna...... HELM ABBY AND ZETTERBERG ARE CENTERS. There sorry for the caps, but you don't seem to understand the lack of center depth without Flippula. I guess rewarded isn't a fair word, default would be a better word to use. He is the first line winger by default right now. But what I meant by that is Babcock could easily sit him for a game, demote him, or take him off the PP but he isn't and that tells me that he is working hard and therefore getting "rewarded" with playing time and that's good enough for me. I trust in Babcock's roster and line decisions, he changes them throughout the game as well, it's not like he sticks with it 100% of the time. You'll see the ZDH line when we are either on a powerplay or down and need a goal, you'll see the ZDC when we need to prevent a goal at the end of the game. I'm not putting him on a pedestal, I'm defending him from irrational wing's fans that want to use him as an easy whipping boy. That's all. I don't even think he is playing that well and he could be playing better, but he is far far far from awful. If you want awful go see how Kopecky was doing on the Blackhawks 2nd PP and then watch Bertuzzi. You'll gain appreciation very very fast. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kwame_Kilpatrick 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 ok someone said eavs could become a 20 goal scorer and i agreee, i mean honestly if we put eaves and helm with datsyuk i bet u it would be a pretty good line. datsyuk had success with boyd devereaux when he was younger and eaves and helm are both similar quick player. obviously bertuzzi is not brett hull, more like cam neely age 80 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cjm502 165 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 (edited) The only thing he is lacking is confidence. Bert is working real hard. Today on mlive I read an article that stated: Todd Bertuzzi is lighter than ever--he's on the ice for optional workouts 15 minutes before the other players in Detroit At least Bert is trying. Edited November 30, 2009 by cjm502 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedisappearer 291 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 If you want awful go see how Kopecky was doing on the Blackhawks 2nd PP... Hey man, eff you for even suggesting watching Kopey on a PP unit. WTF has this board sunk to when this gets suggested? WHO WILL THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN?!?!?!?!?!?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeytown_Ryan 119 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 HELM ABBY AND ZETTERBERG ARE CENTERS. There sorry for the caps, but you don't seem to understand the lack of center depth without Flippula. I guess rewarded isn't a fair word, default would be a better word to use. He is the first line winger by default right now. But what I meant by that is Babcock could easily sit him for a game, demote him, or take him off the PP but he isn't and that tells me that he is working hard and therefore getting "rewarded" with playing time and that's good enough for me. I trust in Babcock's roster and line decisions, he changes them throughout the game as well, it's not like he sticks with it 100% of the time. You'll see the ZDH line when we are either on a powerplay or down and need a goal, you'll see the ZDC when we need to prevent a goal at the end of the game. I'm not putting him on a pedestal, I'm defending him from irrational wing's fans that want to use him as an easy whipping boy. That's all. I don't even think he is playing that well and he could be playing better, but he is far far far from awful. If you want awful go see how Kopecky was doing on the Blackhawks 2nd PP and then watch Bertuzzi. You'll gain appreciation very very fast. #1 - I am not nor ever did I say that Bertuzzi is the only reason the Red Wings are not in 1st place....therefor he is NOT a whipping boy. #2) - This is a thread for people to discuss how they feel about TODD BERTUZZI! #3) What difference does it make that all those players are centers when Helm and Abby play together..... Kopecky doesnt play here anymore so if YOU want to watch Kopy play..... go ahead. I'll watch his brutal play when he plays against the Wings. other than that I dont really give 2 flying s***s how he is doing. Man o Man why compare him to players that don't play here anymore..... 1st it was Hossa now Kopy..... Are you a closet Hawks fan? Comparing him to players that are not on OUR roster is not gonna place him on the right or wrong line or choose who he plays with... But you and your Babcock intuition already knew that... He's a hard worker and Ill never take away what he has done.... but to sing his praises is just a little pre-mature. He is on pace for a average year...I guess thats all we can get.. average Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Theophany 110 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 ok someone said eavs could become a 20 goal scorer and i agreee, i mean honestly if we put eaves and helm with datsyuk i bet u it would be a pretty good line. datsyuk had success with boyd devereaux when he was younger and eaves and helm are both similar quick player. obviously bertuzzi is not brett hull, more like cam neely age 80 Helm is not, nor will ever be a goal scorer. He's Kris Draper v2.0. Helm is a center, thus will never play with Datsyuk. End. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 #1 - I am not nor ever did I say that Bertuzzi is the only reason the Red Wings are not in 1st place....therefor he is NOT a whipping boy. #2) - This is a thread for people to discuss how they feel about TODD BERTUZZI! #3) What difference does it make that all those players are centers when Helm and Abby play together..... Kopecky doesnt play here anymore so if YOU want to watch Kopy play..... go ahead. I'll watch his brutal play when he plays against the Wings. other than that I dont really give 2 flying s***s how he is doing. Man o Man why compare him to players that don't play here anymore..... 1st it was Hossa now Kopy..... Are you a closet Hawks fan? Comparing him to players that are not on OUR roster is not gonna place him on the right or wrong line or choose who he plays with... But you and your Babcock intuition already knew that... He's a hard worker and Ill never take away what he has done.... but to sing his praises is just a little pre-mature. He is on pace for a average year...I guess thats all we can get.. average 1. He is a whipping boy in the sense that people are complaining about him more than anyone else, just like Sammy last year. 2. I understand that, that's why I'm sharing my feelings about Bertuzzi as well. 3. Helm and Abby don't play together. I'm making my posts for the several posters that just say "he sucks", "he doesn't try", "wasted signing" etc. I did compare him to people on our roster, and no one is countering those stats. I compared him to Hossa because that was Datsyuk's winger last year, and some people in this thread think that Bertuzzi should have his shooting %. That's why I brought him up. And Kopecky played on the team last year and was awful, yet there are more people complaining about Bertuzzi this year, than Kopecky last year not to mention people complain about his 1.5 million contract. It's remarkable. People are hating on Bertuzzi because of a mistake in the past, that's all. It's one thing to criticize him rationally through +/- and lack of production, I even agree from that angle. But I take issue to people that just come in, say he sucks, and leave without saying anything else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedisappearer 291 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 I compared him to Hossa because that was Datsyuk's winger last year, and some people in this thread think that Bertuzzi should have his shooting %. I never said that, and you know it. You paraded out how he's second in shoots, I pointed out his % is horrid. If you are making the defense that injuries have forced him to take a larger role that no one intended, I can accept that. But I'm still allowed to complain about a second line forward who gets plenty of PP time who is shooting less than 5% and turns the puck over like it *may* cause cancer. He's not the cause of the Wing's ills, but he's sure a prominent symptom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedisappearer 291 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 And Kopecky played on the team last year and was awful, yet there are more people complaining about Bertuzzi this year, than Kopecky last year not to mention people complain about his 1.5 million contract. It's remarkable. I don't care about the salary, I care about the line he plays on and the PP time her gets. If Kopey got the ice time Bert did, I would have howled bloody murder. Please note, Kopey was a 3/4th liner with damn near zero PP time. Compare that with Bert. Exactly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Theophany 110 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 People are hating on Bertuzzi because of a mistake in the past, that's all. It's one thing to criticize him rationally through +/- and lack of production, I even agree from that angle. But I take issue to people that just come in, say he sucks, and leave without saying anything else. It should mainly be because he's playing on the first line and isn't playing like a first-liner. We don't have any other options, though, so I'll be crying in relief and happiness when Franzen is back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
