dat's sick 1,002 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) You're being incredibly two dimensional in your view of what has caused Datsyuk's lack of scoring; apparently he's either scoring or not scoring, and there are no other variables than 'on' or 'off'. Rick Nash is a better goal scorer, BTW. Datsyuk makes his goals look pretty, but Nash gets it done and scores more goals, because that's who he is; he's a power forward, and Datsyuk is a playmaker. Didn't argue that Nash isn't a better goalscorer, but I think Datsyuk is a better player. And I think he's just as capable of creating scoring chances by himself. Nash only scored about 7-8 more goals than Pav each of the last two seasons. It's not THAT much more. And I think you're the one being two-dimensional, since you think Bertuzzi is the only reason Pav's production is down by about 30% this year (he played with Homer last year when Homer was playing worse, so he can't be dragging him down that much can he?). I think it has to do with worse linemates but mostly with Pav himself. Either he's playing through an injury or his head is just not in the right place. Maybe both. He's a human being. Sometimes they lose focus or things happen in their personal life that make them struggle on the ice. That's not two-dimensional, it's life. Thinking that he's a robot who always plays on the same level and depending on who is on his wing he either produces 97 or 62 points per season, THAT'S two-dimensional. We'll see if he starts producing now that he's playing with Hank. So far it doesn't quite look like it but maybe they need a while to get the chemistry going again. Edited December 9, 2009 by dat's sick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Theophany 110 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 Didn't argue that Nash isn't a better goalscorer, but I think Datsyuk is a better player. And I think he's just as capable of creating scoring chances by himself. Nash only scored about 7-8 more goals than Pav each of the last two seasons. It's not THAT much more. We'll see if he starts producing now that he's playing with Hank. So far it doesn't quite look like it but maybe they need a while to get the chemistry going again. For your first paragraph: yes, 7-8 goals when you're talking about 30 compared to 40 is a lot. For your second paragraph: you can't really argue that he's not producing with Hank. Our PP is 8th in the league with Bert/Cleary/Leino making up the second forward line. It's pretty obvious that he's produced with Hank. We'll just see whether it translates to 5 on 5 or not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Donaldjr2448 43 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 Ville has been put into a tough roll to start this year! With all of the injuries he is expected to play like Dats and Z. He has the potential, but he doesn't have the experience! I went to Denver in October to see the Wings play and While watching Ville he gives up on the plays sometimes and quits moving his feet. I couldn't figure out how he was getting beat to the loose pucks until like so many have said he quits moving his feet. Someone else stated here that it is desire, I cannot not agree more with that! There are so many players that have cracked this lineup on desire, look at Cleary, Eaves, Draper, Malts and the list goes on. Giving up on plays is simply lazyness!! And we all know lazyness is lack of heart and desire! I really hate to say that about someone, but he hasn't shown me anything positive this year! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) Leino skates great circles with the puck along the boards... Edited December 9, 2009 by GoWings1905 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernWingsFan 854 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 Leino is lazy and he sucks. Right now, yes he does. Even though he's 26 he's still learning though the grind of an 80+ game season in the highest league, not just playing sparringly or in the playoffs alone when he was probably more fresh last year. Still plenty of time for him to get better but he's laerning the hard way right now being scratched. Of course, these are just my guesses and assumptions, and keep in mind I'm a pretty big idiot so... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cjm502 165 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 Right now, yes he does. Even though he's 26 he's still learning though the grind of an 80+ game season in the highest league, not just playing sparringly or in the playoffs alone when he was probably more fresh last year. Still plenty of time for him to get better but he's laerning the hard way right now being scratched. Of course, these are just my guesses and assumptions, and keep in mind I'm a pretty big idiot so... I was just saying it because no one else had (surprisingly), but his work ethic is on and off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 He needs to learn to keep his head up as well. He's gonna get taken out sooner or later the way he skates around staring at the ice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 The guy is 26 and everyone is talking about how he's still young and has a long ways to go. At 26, there isn't much upside left to his game outside the next season or two. It's not like at 30 he's all of a sudden going to become much faster and a better scorer. If he was in his early 20's, I'd say there was still hope, but right now he looks like he won't go anywhere as a player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dat's sick 1,002 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 The guy is 26 and everyone is talking about how he's still young and has a long ways to go. At 26, there isn't much upside left to his game outside the next season or two. It's not like at 30 he's all of a sudden going to become much faster and a better scorer. If he was in his early 20's, I'd say there was still hope, but right now he looks like he won't go anywhere as a player. Oh come on. He's had a rough start to his first NHL season and you say there's no chance he'll ever become much of a player? 26 is NOT that old, especially not for late bloomers. Look at Franzen. Leino doesn't have to become a speed-demon to succeed in this league. He's not substantially slower than someone like Cleary or Hank. Difference is Leino doesn't have the same strenght. That's something that he will improve. An off-season in the gym with Filppula should do the trick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManLuv4Clears 7 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 He needs to learn to keep his head up as well. He's gonna get taken out sooner or later the way he skates around staring at the ice. Leino was quoted in saying this after last season: "Restricted free agent forward Ville Leino said he expects to get a deal done with the Wings but said he is done playing in Grand Rapids and would want to be assured he will have a roster spot with the team. "I don't want to play in the AHL anymore, and I won't do that anymore,'' Leino said" I questioned his attitude and people disagreed because he was going to be the next "Hudler." The only comparison I see is him getting knocked on his ass every game. If he wants to be assured a roster spot perhaps he should show a little more desire or maybe he should have stayed in GR because he's getting out played by a would be full-timer in Abs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 Oh come on. He's had a rough start to his first NHL season and you say there's no chance he'll ever become much of a player? 26 is NOT that old, especially not for late bloomers. Look at Franzen. Leino doesn't have to become a speed-demon to succeed in this league. He's not substantially slower than someone like Cleary or Hank. Difference is Leino doesn't have the same strenght. That's something that he will improve. An off-season in the gym with Filppula should do the trick. Tell me about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken 16 381 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 Funny how soooooooo many people thought Leino was just going to step into his first full NHL season and kick ass. Hilarious. It takes a special talent to walk into the NHL and be dominant. Leino is not that kind of talent. He's gonna have to grind it out and take his lumps like most other NHL'ers. Wings fans are just gonna have to be patient and wait. Leino is NOT a super-talent. He has the potential to be a solid top 6 forward. Maybe a first line game breaker if he is dedicated enough to put in the work to get there. The people that thought Leino was gonna sneeze in goals in his first NHL season are completely unrealistic/have no clue what it takes to make it in the NHL. He'll be fine or he'll be gone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Theophany 110 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 Funny how soooooooo many people thought Leino was just going to step into his first full NHL season and kick ass. Hilarious. It takes a special talent to walk into the NHL and be dominant. Leino is not that kind of talent. He's gonna have to grind it out and take his lumps like most other NHL'ers. Wings fans are just gonna have to be patient and wait. Leino is NOT a super-talent. He has the potential to be a solid top 6 forward. Maybe a first line game breaker if he is dedicated enough to put in the work to get there. The people that thought Leino was gonna sneeze in goals in his first NHL season are completely unrealistic/have no clue what it takes to make it in the NHL. He'll be fine or he'll be gone. Leino's not a super talent or he wouldn't have been playing in the AHL last year at the age of 25. Leino was, however, the best player in the regular season ('08) in the SM-Liiga, so it's not unreasonable to expect him to be able to keep up on the third line. He's been a disappointment for sure, but a surprising one (or should have been, had you been following him). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken 16 381 Report post Posted December 9, 2009 Leino's not a super talent or he wouldn't have been playing in the AHL last year at the age of 25. Leino was, however, the best player in the regular season ('08) in the SM-Liiga, so it's not unreasonable to expect him to be able to keep up on the third line. He's been a disappointment for sure, but a surprising one (or should have been, had you been following him). I'm just saying that being the best in a Finnish league does not prepare you for an 82 game grind in the NHL. Personally, I have confidence that things will click for him by the all-star break and we'll start seeing flashes of what he will be in a couple seasons. Right now, he's just trying to survive. And I hope he does. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted December 10, 2009 I recall, as has become the norm around here, getting railed on by many when I suggested that it was not sensible to expect so much out of Leino this year as it's his ROOKIE YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted December 10, 2009 Funny how soooooooo many people thought Leino was just going to step into his first full NHL season and kick ass. Hilarious. It takes a special talent to walk into the NHL and be dominant. Leino is not that kind of talent. He's gonna have to grind it out and take his lumps like most other NHL'ers. Wings fans are just gonna have to be patient and wait. Leino is NOT a super-talent. He has the potential to be a solid top 6 forward. Maybe a first line game breaker if he is dedicated enough to put in the work to get there. The people that thought Leino was gonna sneeze in goals in his first NHL season are completely unrealistic/have no clue what it takes to make it in the NHL. He'll be fine or he'll be gone. So you're talking about 95% of the posters here then, right??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken 16 381 Report post Posted December 10, 2009 So you're talking about 95% of the posters here then, right??? Ya... pretty much. Not naming any names. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted December 10, 2009 Anyone want to bring up a old bashing Hudler thread? I know he was much younger than Leino but this is still his first full season in the NHL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sureWhyNot 19 Report post Posted December 10, 2009 From MLIVE: Wings looking for more from Leino How about putting Leino on the fourth line with Abby and May until his skating improves? ..... he is minus 8. Eaves on the other hand is a team high plus 8. As much as I love the DHE Express Line why doesn't Babcock try Eaves with Datsyuk? Babs tried Leino with Datsyuk. With Datsyuk's passing ability maybe Eaves can regain his rookie season scoring touch! Wouldn't that be sweet! It may also get Datsyuk going 5 on 5... no other line combo worked yet. How about we make Leino fake an injury and put him on the LTIR - He is absolutely worthless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
