Jimmy Howard watch thread

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

updated.

I wasn't happy about either of the goals that Jimmy let past him, but I am very relieved to see that he maintained his composure and remained strong for the remainder of the game.

Yeah, Howard shouldn't be required to be the top star every game, so it was nice to see the offense give him a breather after having trouble with those rebounds in the first.

[Pucks 66]

He was excellent in the 3rd when he was being run and jammed into the net. His big frame helped keep from getting shoved into the goal.

[clutchngrab 12]

Jimmy will give up the ribby - but that's something a defense can adjust to. JH continues to keep us in every game and steal one by and by. Lets not forget how much he has improved over the course of this year.

Edited February 3, 2010 by clutchngrab

[clutchngrab 12]

jimmy's good. sure he lets in a goal, what goalie doesn't? i think jimmy has been one of few wings that have done good all season. he tries

Bright spots this year are without a doubt Howard being #1 followed by the emergence of Kronner before injury, Eaves, Bert living to and above expectations, Miller, and Homer after an off year. Flip still improving, and I think thats about it. Not too bad if our stars start scoring and Franzen comes back strong. I'm optimistic.

[titanium2 867]

He keeps giving the Wings a chance to win and they just fail to deliver.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

He keeps giving the Wings a chance to win and they just fail to deliver.

This.

And it blows.

[b.shanafan14 733]

He keeps giving the Wings a chance to win and they just fail to deliver.

Too true. At the end of the day, the only stats that matters is W-L-OTL and he has not been able to win the Wings those 50-50 games. His save percentage is great, but watch his rebound control and how fast the shots on goal accumulate as he squirts out rebound after rebound. In the games where he is upwards of 40 shots (unheard of for the Wings) he usually sees 4-5 in the span of a few seconds because he bobbles it outside the crease and the opposition bangs at it 3-4 more times before he finally squashes it or it goes in.

Howard has been very lucky with most of the rebounds he's let out this season, last night there were 5 or 6 instances where the rebound was in a perfect position for the opposition to score in an empty net and it either went between a Blue's skates or was checked off by a defenseman.

Howard has been good, but I think his lack of rebound control is a huge issue, which attributes to his grossly inflated SOG totals and helps boost his SV%, while at the same time the Wings are still unable to win even the games they should. Not to mention in the shootout he is absolutely horrible.

Thanks to Babcock essentially retiring Osgood prematurely this season, all we can do is speculate as to the position of the team if we had two goaltenders. Say what you want about Osgood, he has always known how to win, even in his stint away from Detroit. It hasn't always been pretty, but Osgood knows how to slow down a game and get a stable faceoff in the situations that Howard kicks out rebound after rebound, at best keeping the puck in the attacking zone with no chance for a Wings line change and at worst giving up soft rebound goals.

[bdavis 28]

Imagine what type of season this would be for Howard if he had better defense and offense in front of him. He'd be a rookie with a championship ring. This guy stands on his head, and his team doesn't appreciate it. Hopefully Howard doesn't lose confidence in himself if the Wings don't make the playoffs. Howard is going to be one hell of a goalie once this team gets it's s*** together.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Imagine what type of season this would be for Howard if he had better defense and offense in front of him. He'd be a rookie with a championship ring. This guy stands on his head, and his team doesn't appreciate it. Hopefully Howard doesn't lose confidence in himself if the Wings don't make the playoffs. Howard is going to be one hell of a goalie once this team gets it's s*** together.

Not even that. Imagine having the same defense but having the team average more than 2.5 goals a game. Most of Howard's efforts, even while giving up 3 and even 4 a game have been great for the most part, and have been wasted by the Wings inability to score more.

[clutchngrab 12]

Say what you want about Osgood, he has always known how to win, even in his stint away from Detroit.

I'll say this about Osgood - If he was seeing 40+ shots a night he and the Wings would be the laughing stock of the NHL.

[bdavis 28]

Not even that. Imagine having the same defense but having the team average more than 2.5 goals a game. Most of Howard's efforts, even while giving up 3 and even 4 a game have been great for the most part, and have been wasted by the Wings inability to score more.

Yeah, and where would they be in the standings if this was the case? Most likely not battling for a playoff spot.

[b.shanafan14 733]

I'll say this about Osgood - If he was seeing 40+ shots a night he and the Wings would be the laughing stock of the NHL.

Watch how Howard plays. Instead of freezing the puck when the pressure is on and the defense is tanked he continues to kick out rebounds allowing the attack to continue. Happened several times last night as with all games. Howard has played great, but he hasn't been all good.

The team needs to score more obviously, but Howard is unable to win the 50-50 games for his team. I'm not saying Osgood would be better, I'm saying the playing styles are different and where Osgood would have seen 25-30 shots because he is able to freeze the puck, Howard sees 40+ because he allows the opposition to reload.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Yeah, and where would they be in the standings if this was the case? Most likely not battling for a playoff spot.

Not especially. The Red Wings essentially have the same defense as last year, which was also highly suspect. It's just that their offense could bail them out of essentially anything on most given nights. If they were able to put the puck in the net more often while still having the same defense, they'd have more points. Hell, if they had won HALF of the 11 shootouts they've lost this year, thats an additional 5-6 wins and points.

[Pucks 66]

Watch how Howard plays. Instead of freezing the puck when the pressure is on and the defense is tanked he continues to kick out rebounds allowing the attack to continue. Happened several times last night as with all games. Howard has played great, but he hasn't been all good.

The team needs to score more obviously, but Howard is unable to win the 50-50 games for his team. I'm not saying Osgood would be better, I'm saying the playing styles are different and where Osgood would have seen 25-30 shots because he is able to freeze the puck, Howard sees 40+ because he allows the opposition to reload.

Yeah Osgood has better rebound control, but Howard has better "keep the f*cking puck out of the back of the net control."

Edited February 10, 2010 by Pucks

[b.shanafan14 733]

Yeah Osgood has better rebound control, but Howard has better "keep the f*cking puck out of the back of the net control."

Based on Osgood's January start or his December start?

Does anyone disagree that Howard isn't winning us the games he has a chance to and that we would be better off, not with Osgood as the starter, but with two goaltenders instead of one who can't win a game no matter what he does.

[gcom007 1,465]

Too true. At the end of the day, the only stats that matters is W-L-OTL and he has not been able to win the Wings those 50-50 games. His save percentage is great, but watch his rebound control and how fast the shots on goal accumulate as he squirts out rebound after rebound. In the games where he is upwards of 40 shots (unheard of for the Wings) he usually sees 4-5 in the span of a few seconds because he bobbles it outside the crease and the opposition bangs at it 3-4 more times before he finally squashes it or it goes in.

Howard has been very lucky with most of the rebounds he's let out this season, last night there were 5 or 6 instances where the rebound was in a perfect position for the opposition to score in an empty net and it either went between a Blue's skates or was checked off by a defenseman.

Howard has been good, but I think his lack of rebound control is a huge issue, which attributes to his grossly inflated SOG totals and helps boost his SV%, while at the same time the Wings are still unable to win even the games they should. Not to mention in the shootout he is absolutely horrible.

Thanks to Babcock essentially retiring Osgood prematurely this season, all we can do is speculate as to the position of the team if we had two goaltenders. Say what you want about Osgood, he has always known how to win, even in his stint away from Detroit. It hasn't always been pretty, but Osgood knows how to slow down a game and get a stable faceoff in the situations that Howard kicks out rebound after rebound, at best keeping the puck in the attacking zone with no chance for a Wings line change and at worst giving up soft rebound goals.

"Huge" might be a little over the top. It's an issue for certain, but I think the fact that he's still a rookie limits how much stock you can put in such speculation. It has the potential to be a huge issue if he doesn't work it out, but I expect it to be addressed over the summer and through training camp next year.

I do agree about the shots on goal thing though. Many people overlook the fact that Howard's rebound control problems tend to inflate the shots he faces as so many shots often occur in scrambles off of rebounds. Osgood's rebound control is a lot stronger and he's able to slow the game down and get the face-off whereas Howard ends up facing extra shots. The team plays like s*** in front of both goalies, but Osgood's consistently faced less shots in his starts than Howard, lending some statistical credence to the evaluation.

Howard has proven that he's more than capable of stopping the puck this season, but he doesn't bring a complete game to the table yet. Much of that comes with experience though. He still struggles with the puck after the shot and when having to make a play with his stick. As said, the shot control will hopefully get addressed in the off/pre-season, but his tendency to hesitate to use his stick is something that he'll have to work on for awhile. It will improve with experience, but I'm not so convinced that it's an issue that will go away by next season.

Edited February 10, 2010 by gcom007

[russianswede919293 95]

I like Howard a lot. And he has proven to be a solid starter.

But I do question if the amount of shots he faces is the teams fault or his own doing.

He turns the puck over 50% of the time he plays the puck from behind the net, and his rebounds are almost always in positions that people have great scoring opportunities down.

With increased puck and rebound control I think the 40 shot games would be closer to 20 shots against.

A lost of what he gets is due to his own lack of ability to control rebounds...he does however get into great position to stop those rebounds.

Positionally and mechanically he has been very strong...the rebounds and puck movement have been things that have harmed both him and the team though IMO...

Just realized gcom said the same thing...

[russianswede919293 95]

Based on Osgood's January start or his December start?

Does anyone disagree that Howard isn't winning us the games he has a chance to and that we would be better off, not with Osgood as the starter, but with two goaltenders instead of one who can't win a game no matter what he does.

He isn't winning us games like he had...coming out of the olympic break I think that both goalies need to be used more often...Ozzy should be playing every few games not once a month.

Howard should definitely be the starter though, he has earned it.

[clutchngrab 12]

Watch how Howard plays. Instead of freezing the puck when the pressure is on and the defense is tanked he continues to kick out rebounds allowing the attack to continue. Happened several times last night as with all games.

Yes, rebound control and puck handling are a WIP. But to blame our crap defense on pucks he plays instead of freezes is patently ridiculous.

The team needs to score more obviously, but Howard is unable to win the 50-50 games for his team. I'm not saying Osgood would be better, I'm saying the playing styles are different and where Osgood would have seen 25-30 shots because he is able to freeze the puck, Howard sees 40+ because he allows the opposition to reload.

Wrong on both counts. Howard has won games (LA) that we had no business winning and kept us in games we had no business being in. Really, you think that Jimmie Howard rebound control is worth 15 extra shots a game? That's hilarious.

You need to take of you Oz for president t-shirt.

[interminded 1]

Yes, rebound control and puck handling are a WIP. But to blame our crap defense on pucks he plays instead of freezes is patently ridiculous.

Wrong on both counts. Howard has won games (LA) that we had no business winning and kept us in games we had no business being in. Really, you think that Jimmie Howard rebound control is worth 15 extra shots a game? That's hilarious.

You need to take of you Oz for president t-shirt.

Chris Osgood is Canadian.

He can't run for President.

Therefore, having T-shirts with "Oz for President" would be silly.

[Outsider 42]

Really, you think that Jimmie Howard rebound control is worth 15 extra shots a game? That's hilarious.

I'd say that's a pretty fair estimate.

Two extra shots per goal mouth scramble, two goal mouth scrambles per period, plus the one or two he routinely kicks out to the slot every period.

That puts my count at 6 extra, totally unnecessary, shots per period due to nothing more, nor less, than poor rebound control.

Three periods per Game? That totals out to 18 shots per Game that could conceivably be directly attributed to rebounds.

Perhaps YOU need to take off the "Wow! Look how many shots he faces! Our Defense SUCKS!" T-shirt, and start to realize that it's not the Defense that's leaving Howie out to dry. It's Howie making the Defense work twice as hard as they have to.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

I'll say this about Osgood - If he was seeing 40+ shots a night he and the Wings would be the laughing stock of the NHL.

Because he is washed up.

[Pucks 66]

Babcock would probably play another goalie some games if he had one, but he doesn't. He has no confidence in Osgood at all nor does the rest of the coaching staff, obviously. While were at it let's have Maltby replace Datsyuk in the lineup. That makes about as much sense.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Pucks

[Pucks 66]

Because he is washed up.

Finally we agree

[clutchngrab 12]

I'd say that's a pretty fair estimate.

Two extra shots per goal mouth scramble, two goal mouth scrambles per period, plus the one or two he routinely kicks out to the slot every period.

That puts my count at 6 extra, totally unnecessary, shots per period due to nothing more, nor less, than poor rebound control.

Three periods per Game? That totals out to 18 shots per Game that could conceivably be directly attributed to rebounds.

Perhaps YOU need to take off the "Wow! Look how many shots he faces! Our Defense SUCKS!" T-shirt, and start to realize that it's not the Defense that's leaving Howie out to dry. It's Howie making the Defense work twice as hard as they have to.

I think your Osgood blinders skew your numbers.