All time Red Wings best fighters?

[Guest micah]

Not taking duration into acount, OR what they did while they were here - just considering the entire careers of any who wore the winged wheel - who were the best scrappers?

I put together a quick list of guys who I've seen. I'm only including regular fighters here and only going by memory, so no "I heard Gordie Howe was an awesome fighter who beat everybody up" when I actually only know of him fighting 2 or 3 times and only winning once.

This is my quick list, it is in some semblence of order. A few positions at the bottom weren't given much thought and I'm sure I forgot a few people - especially borderline guys like Marty Lapointe who one might or might not consider to be a "fighter". This list only includes people for whom I think fighting was a substantial role for. It may not have been their primary role, but it was expected to be part of their game. Players from before my time are not represented here as I don't know enough about them, and there isn't a whole lot of video to learn about them from.

Bob Probert

Joey Kocur

Stu Grimson

Wendel Clark

Aaron Downey

Darren McCarty

Basil McRae

Brad May

Brendan Shanahan

Randy McKay

Gerard Gallant

Derian Hatcher

Keith Primeau

Terry Carkner

Tiger Williams

Jim Cummins

Bob Rouse

Lee Norwood

Brad Norton

Jaime Puschor

Edited January 11, 2010 by micah

[Rivalred 630]

Jaime Puschor

Jamie Pushor is how is the spelled....

Sad Micah....

[Guest micah]

I forgot Kris King somehow. He belongs in there soomewhere in the middle-midbottom.

Jaime Puschor does not deserve to have his name spelled right.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

I will give this thread attention when Lilja is on the list.

[Guest micah]

I will give this thread attention when Lilja is on the list.

Lilja absolutely deserves a spot on there, I told you I was rushed. Feel free to copy/paste and edit.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

You forgot Mel Bridgman, Troy Crowder and Dennis Vial. They all played in Detroit, albeit two of them past their fighting primes, and one before his prime.

Also, you overrated Hatcher and underrated Tiger WIlliams. Other than that, the list looks O.K., since no one's list will look alike.

Edited January 11, 2010 by GMRwings1983

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

As I only followed the Wings since about 94 (when I was in 4th grade) I have limited exposure to anyone fighting prior to that era. So, my list as follows:

1. Probert

2. Kocur

3. McCarty

4. Shanahan

5. Stu Grimson

6. Aaron Downey / Keith Primeau

7. Dallas Drake / Lapointe

8. Jiri Fischer / Brad May

9. Danny Markov

10. Andreas Lilja

Quick edit for explanation: I rated by winning percentage, skill, enforcer ability (preventing running of skill players), fighting at the right moment, and overall skill at other aspects of the game (skating, hitting, goal scoring). For example, Grimson is higher than more skillful players because I think that he was a great fighter and that's about it, while the other players below him are fair fighters but overall better players.

EDIT2: Jeez, how could I forget Lapointe?!

Edited January 12, 2010 by Wings_Dynasty

[egroen 384]

If you want to make it fighters from the past couple of decades or so, fine... but you do not need to tarnish Howe as fighter in the process.

Gordie fought plenty, just not as much as what we have come to think of as "enforcers" (no one fought that much back then, and fighting majors were not handed out like candy back then, either). But his destroying of Lou Fontinato in 1959 was the modern day equivalent of someone like Iginla breaking in the face of Laraque or Chara, two of the unquestioned toughest guys to ever play the game. Of course Gordie Howe was an excellent fighter.

[Yellowknife Redwing 57]

I'm fine with the "All Time Best" including just 3 names

1. Probert

2. Kocur

3. Grimson

EDIT: upon reconsideration thanks to the esteemed esteef:

4. LaPointe

Edited January 11, 2010 by Yellowknife Redwing

[esteef 2,679]

Don't forget Martin LaPointe!!!

esteef

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

1. Bob Probert

2. Joe Kocur

3. Stu Grimson

4. Mel Bridgman

5. Wendel Clark

6. Troy Crowder

7. Brad May

8. Brendan Shanahan

9. Darren McCarty

10. Gordie Howe

[Guest micah]

If you want to make it fighters from the past couple of decades or so, fine... but you do not need to tarnish Howe as fighter in the process.

Gordie fought plenty, just not as much as what we have come to think of as "enforcers" (no one fought that much back then, and fighting majors were not handed out like candy back then, either). But his destroying of Lou Fontinato in 1959 was the modern day equivalent of someone like Iginla breaking in the face of Laraque or Chara, two of the unquestioned toughest guys to ever play the game. Of course Gordie Howe was an excellent fighter.

I don't intend to tarnish Howe, but I'm only aware of 3 of his fights - the beating of Fotinato, who was a tough guy, getting beat up by Bill Ezinicki who was like 5'10 and 165lbs. He also apparently fought Rocket Richard at least once and I've heard it was a slugfest, but I don't know who won. Maybe Howe had a lot of career fights, but if he did I'm not aware of it so I didn't include him. You may if you wish.

Esteef, I didn't forget Lapointe - I just wasn't sure weather I should consider him a fighter or not. I suppose if Hatcher and Primeau are fighters, Lapointe is too....and about equally capable.

Edited January 11, 2010 by micah

[cjm502 165]

Nobody will ever be tougher than Kocur, ever. I have said it before and I will say it again, Joey is the toughest guy pound for pound to ever lace up the skates.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

Dennis Polonich

Edited January 11, 2010 by E_S_A_D

[Chairman Maouth 97]

I'm not a Wings fan, but when I think of "best Wings fighter", only one name comes to mind. Probert.

[Guest micah]

You forgot Mel Bridgman, Troy Crowder and Dennis Vial. They all played in Detroit, albeit two of them past their fighting primes, and one before his prime.

Also, you overrated Hatcher and underrated Tiger WIlliams. Other than that, the list looks O.K., since no one's list will look alike.

TigerWilliams never impressed me as a fighter. As a PIM generator absolutely, but did he ever win a fight against a tough guy? Actually, I don't recall him ever winning a fight against anyone.

I forgot to include Crowder and Vial, and I forgot Bridgman was ever a Wing!

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Nobody will ever be tougher than Kocur, ever. I have said it before and I will say it again, Joey is the toughest guy pound for pound to ever lace up the skates.

There's a lot of fighters better than Kocur pound for pound.

The best pound for pound fighters were Stan Jonathan and Tie Domi.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I'm fine with the "All Time Best" including just 3 names

1. Probert

2. Kocur

3. Grimson

EDIT: upon reconsideration thanks to the esteemed esteef:

4. LaPointe

Agreed.

Though for me I'd say:

1. Probert

2. Kocur

3. Grimson

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

There's a lot of fighters better than Kocur pound for pound.

The best pound for pound fighters were Stan Jonathan and Tie Domi.

Yeah, it's hard to beat Tie Domi in terms of size, though the guy was built like a fire hydrant. Even though he was only 5'10" he was around 210 lbs. Most of that weight was probably in his cement head.

And Joe wasn't the best pound for pound, but he probably had the most feared right hand. If he connected, he'd crack jaws, helmets, skulls...

Edited January 11, 2010 by haroldsnepsts

[BeeRYCE 2]

1. Probert

2. Kocur

3. Grimson

4. McCarty

5. Lapointe

Sure you can include guys like Tiger Williams, Brad Norton, Wendel Clark etc... But you also have to take into consideration how long they played for the Wings, how often they fought while on the team etc, etc... It's like making an all time Wing player list and slapping Robitaille, Hull, Hasek, and Chelios at the top... Sure they had exceptional careers, but not necessarily with the Wings.

[cjm502 165]

There's a lot of fighters better than Kocur pound for pound.

The best pound for pound fighters were Stan Jonathan and Tie Domi.

Kocur was only 6lbs heavier than Domi. I cant say anything about Jonathan, never saw him fight.

Edited January 11, 2010 by cjm502

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

1. Probert

2. Kocur

3. Grimson

4. McCarty

5. Lapointe

Sure you can include guys like Tiger Williams, Brad Norton, Wendel Clark etc... But you also have to take into consideration how long they played for the Wings, how often they fought while on the team etc, etc... It's like making an all time Wing player list and slapping Robitaille, Hull, Hasek, and Chelios at the top... Sure they had exceptional careers, but not necessarily with the Wings.

That still doesn't excuse putting Martin Lapointe on your list. The guy was a wrestler more than a fighter. Based on your criteria, Shanahan should have been on the list, since he was a much better fighter than Lapointe. Same goes for Primeau.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Kocur was only 6lbs heavier than Domi. I cant say anything about Jonathan, never saw him fight.

Kocur stopped playing right around the late 90's, when the bigger heavyweights became rampant all over the NHL. He didn't have to face off against them as much as Domi did in the last decade.

Also, Domi was listed at 5'11, but he had to be no more than 5'9. I think a three inch height difference is significant somewhat.

As for Jonathan, he was smaller than both of them and was one of the all time best.

[egroen 384]

Kocur didn't fight nearly as much as Probert (which makes Probert the king - would fight anyone and still rarely lost), but won the vast majority of them, often with one punch.

Grimson didn't become a particularly good fighter until later in his career.

Red Kelly was a Golden Gloves boxer -- how many NHL players can say that? -- though he fought rarely.

Dave Hanson (from the movie Slapshot) was in 3 fights in less than a dozen games with Detroit in the 70s

[Datsasuk 2]

Mike Vernon and Chris Osgood, haha