Leino or Miller

[Icesurfer 75]

Miller has an overall better game, has more to offer and his willingness to do what it takes makes all the difference for me. When you can play in any situation there just is no comparison.

If you want to loaf become a baker, if you want to coast become a hang glider.... LOL.

[Datsyerberger 279]

I'm voting Ville just to build up some mojo for the guy. That said, I've loved Miller's stay here, and he's the more realistic vote.

Consider it me taking one for the team.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Datsyerberger

[DMAC 25 18]

haha the vote is so uneven, anyway we could trade leino?

[gcom007 1,465]

Miller. I've been one of the few trying to defend Leino and be patient but I'm pretty sure this season is a wash for him at this point. I still think he deserves the summer and training camp before we determine whether to dump him or not. I think he knows far better now than before what it takes to play in this league and that may be a good thing. If he addresses some physical weaknesses over the summer and gets his head straight, he still has the potential to come in and contribute next year. But again, I don't think he'll be coming around this year, and it'll take a summer of hard work and focus to come in and earn a spot next year.

[dirtydangles 1,328]

just throwing this out there.... maybe leino only shows up for the playoffs.... who knows. I think babcock threw him in the shootout to give him the chance to be a hero for once and win a game, see if he has the stones. i was screeming for number 51 to shoot after leino, i wanted leino 4th cause i wanted to see him win the game (which was his best of the season) and see if he had the ability to deal with the pressure and get some praise from his team and the media for once.

[gcom007 1,465]

Drew Miller. I liked him better as a gritty, good skating two-way forward with top-six upside when he was a Duck and before Leino was a Wing, and I like him better with both on the roster. Plus, I think Miller still has that kind of upside. Leino's stock is dropping really quickly; he needs some time to sort out his attitude of entitlement if he's going to play anywhere in the NHL. If Leino played with the grit and speed of a guy like Darren Helm or Stacy Roest, he'd have at least 25 goals and 50 points by now. In terms of raw offensive talent, there are probably only maybe four forwards on the roster who have more than Leino; yet he is one of the worst offensive players on the team. Sad, really.

I very much agree. I don't think we've seen the best of Miller yet.

And I'm really not surprised about Leino. I had a feeling this year would go like that, hence why I said I'd be thrilled if he got to 15 goals throughout the off-season. Coming up from GR in the middle of the season is far different than being an everyday guy on an NHL team with a legit role to play other than plugging an injury gap. It takes tremendously more physically and mentally to make it in the NHL every day as opposed to as a minor league call up. I hope he takes this summer to address his weaknesses and get his head straight and I'd gladly give him a training camp to show how hard he worked over the summer and how bad he wants it. I think he's got it in him and I hope in this rookie season he's learned the lesson it takes to motivate him to work out the kinks this summer. I still think we need to be patient...

[gcom007 1,465]

just throwing this out there.... maybe leino only shows up for the playoffs.... who knows. I think babcock threw him in the shootout to give him the chance to be a hero for once and win a game, see if he has the stones. i was screeming for number 51 to shoot after leino, i wanted leino 4th cause i wanted to see him win the game (which was his best of the season) and see if he had the ability to deal with the pressure and get some praise from his team and the media for once.

He sure didn't last year...

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

just throwing this out there.... maybe leino only shows up for the playoffs.... who knows. I think babcock threw him in the shootout to give him the chance to be a hero for once and win a game, see if he has the stones. i was screeming for number 51 to shoot after leino, i wanted leino 4th cause i wanted to see him win the game (which was his best of the season) and see if he had the ability to deal with the pressure and get some praise from his team and the media for once.

I have to agree with you on the Bab's throwing him into the shootout early theory. I would have gotten off his back if he scored there, but unfortunately he didn't. Miller did, which pretty much sells me on that guy, not that I wasn't pretty much for him over Ville anyway. People are saying give Leino a summer to allow him to build up and I agree that wouldn't hurt. However, he gave himself high hopes coming into this year just to disappoint all parties involved, so it could happen again.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Miller, easily.

Leino time sounds strange.

[skyphoenix 153]

I voted for Leino because I feel he has more upside in the future whereas Miller will probably stay stagnant. Leino has a lot of room to improve and has shown some great skill at times and he can turn into a great goal scorer if he gets the hang of the NHL and starts working harder. Miller is getting a lot of credit lately because he's playing hard and he's a gritty forward, but he hasn't shown much in his playing time that he can be anything more than a third/fourth line forward (with a healthy team).

I don't really care what people think about Leino, because I still have faith in him.

[titanium2 867]

I don't really care what people think about Leino, because I still have faith in him.

I still have faith in that I don't want the Wings to waive him or anything like that. However, I don't expect much from him for the rest of the year. It seems he's just too weak physically and somewhat mentally. If he just tried to improve those things for the rest of the year I'd be pretty content.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

I still have faith in that I don't want the Wings to waive him or anything like that. However, I don't expect much from him for the rest of the year. It seems he's just too weak physically and somewhat mentally. If he just tried to improve those things for the rest of the year I'd be pretty content.

It has to be something with confidence. I don't remember him getting pushed off the puck so easily last season when he was contributing regularly.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

While Leino has more potential upside in the long-term than Miller IMO and I'm all for still trying to keep him in the system, in the present Miller has produced more and the Wings don't have the luxury of testing stuff out or whatever as they are fighting for every point in the standings until the regular season ends. If it comes down to a line being with Flipper-Williams when he finally gets back, Miller for the time being. If for whatever reasons Miller starts to slide, put Leino back in.

Edited January 23, 2010 by SouthernWingsFan

[chrisdetroit 189]

Leino.

Miller is in his 3rd year, it's unlikely that he is going to show a big jump after 2 1/2 years in the league. What you see is what you get.

Leino is a rookie who was the top forward in all of Finland last year and has only been in the NHL for 1/2 a season. He has huge potential.

Sometimes it is not what you do in your first 1/2 of your rookie year.

Fortunately the Wings brass has more patience than the LGW gang and is not ready to pull the plug on a rookie with so much potential after only 1/2 season.

They are not going to give up on Leino so easily.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

LOL, Miller up 111-10 right now!

[Lidstrom for life 20]

While Leino has more potential upside in the long-term than Miller IMO and I'm all for still trying to keep him in the system, in the present Miller has produced more and the Wings don't have the luxury of testing stuff out or whatever as they are fighting for every point in the standings until the regular season ends. If it comes down to a line being with Flipper-Williams when he finally gets back, Miller for the time being. If for whatever reasons Miller starts to slide, put Leino back in.

I completely agree. I haven't given up on Leino but right now I just can't see how you would justify taking Miller out of the line up.

[eva unit zero 271]

Leino.

Miller is in his 3rd year, it's unlikely that he is going to show a big jump after 2 1/2 years in the league. What you see is what you get.

Leino is a rookie who was the top forward in all of Finland last year and has only been in the NHL for 1/2 a season. He has huge potential.

Sometimes it is not what you do in your first 1/2 of your rookie year.

Miller is four months and 11 days younger than Leino. Arguing that Miller will not be any better than he is now while Leino has plenty of upside "because Miller has been around" is hogwash, as Miller is the younger player. It would be like saying Cristobal Huet has better future upside than Roberto Luongo because Luongo has played more NHL seasons. It's a factor completely unrelated to their future potential.

Fortunately the Wings brass has more patience than the LGW gang and is not ready to pull the plug on a rookie with so much potential after only 1/2 season.

They are not going to give up on Leino so easily.

No, they won't pull the plug on Leino. And that's not what this thread is about. This thread is "If you had to choose between Miller and Leino, two mid-20s wingers on the Wings who make less than $1m, who would you choose both for the current roster and going forward?"

And the decision is pretty clearly to take the younger guy who works harder, has a more rounded game, and has contributed more to the team in his time here. Not a tough choice.

If we're deciding "Who do you take if you need a highly skilled winger to play alongside an elite playmaker and a top power forward" then the choice might be Leino. But that's not the question, now is it?

[stuck in socal 56]

If we make the playoffs I think an asset like Miller is better than an asset of Leino. Miller could cause havoc with Helm and Draper.

[gcom007 1,465]

Leino.

Miller is in his 3rd year, it's unlikely that he is going to show a big jump after 2 1/2 years in the league. What you see is what you get.

Leino is a rookie who was the top forward in all of Finland last year and has only been in the NHL for 1/2 a season. He has huge potential.

Sometimes it is not what you do in your first 1/2 of your rookie year.

Fortunately the Wings brass has more patience than the LGW gang and is not ready to pull the plug on a rookie with so much potential after only 1/2 season.

They are not going to give up on Leino so easily.

I've been one of the one's saying for a long time to not be surprised if he doesn't have a great rookie year, and I also have continually said we should be patient. But as far as this year goes, I really do think it's a wash at this point. I think it's a good wash though in that I think the experience will motivate him to work on his game and his head over the summer and hopefully come in and have a real impressive camp. But I think he's going to need the summer to get everything straight. He'll need to work on his skating and get some strength. That will help his confidence and ideally his drive to succeed after such a disappointing year will help him stay focused to get it all done. It's not a bad lesson to learn in your rookie year if you ask me and I still believe that he can come in and be a solid player for us next season.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Miller is four months and 11 days younger than Leino. Arguing that Miller will not be any better than he is now while Leino has plenty of upside "because Miller has been around" is hogwash, as Miller is the younger player. It would be like saying Cristobal Huet has better future upside than Roberto Luongo because Luongo has played more NHL seasons. It's a factor completely unrelated to their future potential.

No, they won't pull the plug on Leino. And that's not what this thread is about. This thread is "If you had to choose between Miller and Leino, two mid-20s wingers on the Wings who make less than $1m, who would you choose both for the current roster and going forward?"

And the decision is pretty clearly to take the younger guy who works harder, has a more rounded game, and has contributed more to the team in his time here. Not a tough choice.

If we're deciding "Who do you take if you need a highly skilled winger to play alongside an elite playmaker and a top power forward" then the choice might be Leino. But that's not the question, now is it?

The issue is experience not age. Age has nothing to do with it. Miller has had 2 1/2 years in the NHL which for most guys (except maybe unusual cases like Dan Cleary) is enough time to develop there skills fully or to at least show their potential. Leino has had 1/2 of a year which clearly is not enough time for most guys. Going forward, I want the guy with more potential and not the guy that has already reached his peak and is clearly not an elite player.

Neither player right now is a key component on the Red Wings so I'd be willing to take the risk on the guy with huge potential rather than settle for the guy with less potential that is playing better right now.

I'm willing to bet that the Wings agree.

And the Huet versus Luongo comparison is not valid. Luongo is in anybody's opinion an elite goaltender. He doesn't need an upside, he is already proven.

Edited January 23, 2010 by chrisdetroit

[uk_redwing 495]

Finnish Wing has 11 LGW accounts? Surely thats against the rules...

[gcom007 1,465]

The issue is experience not age. Age has nothing to do with it. Miller has had 2 1/2 years in the NHL which for most guys (except maybe unusual cases like Dan Cleary) is enough time to develop there skills fully or to at least show their potential. Leino has had 1/2 of a year which clearly is not enough time for most guys. Going forward, I want the guy with more potential and not the guy that has already reached his peak and is clearly not an elite player.

Neither player right now is a key component on the Red Wings so I'd be willing to take the risk on the guy with huge potential rather than settle for the guy with less potential that is playing better right now.

I'm willing to bet that the Wings agree.

And the Huet versus Luongo comparison is not valid. Luongo is in anybody's opinion an elite goaltender. He doesn't need an upside, he is already proven.

Moving forward as in this season or next? Like I've said, I'm all for giving Leino a chance again next season, but if you had to make a decision to dress Miller or Leino in the playoffs based on how this season has gone, who would you choose? Based on how things have gone, I'd be hard-pressed to choose Leino over Miller this year.

If Leino comes into camp next year with the same lack of focus and intensity, weakness and poor skating, I doubt he'll make it out of camp. He's got tons of upside, but the guy really does need to address some things this off-season to bring his game up the NHL level.

Luongo rant ahead:

And while I agree that the Huet vs. Luongo argument is lacking, I have to say that Luongo sure hasn't proven much in the playoffs when it counts most. I have a hard time even thinking of him as elite still to be honest, especially after that reviling performance last year in a clinching game. Sure, it's one game, but elite goalies making outrageous sums of money do not flounder (and that's putting it nicely...) like that. It's totally unacceptable. The guy's not a rookie and he's yet to make his mark as a playoff goalie.

Osgood won a Cup in his 5th season, went further than Luongo's ever gone in his 3rd season, was an All Star and got Vezina consideration. He's never made even close to Luongo money either. No one has ever wanted to think of him as an elite goalie though.

Luongo's in his 10th year and he's yet to have even a hint of noteworthy playoff success. He's only made it 2 years out of his 10 NHL seasons! He may not have the Red Wings around him, but with the amount of money he's made and the acclaim he receives, he should be carrying bottom feeders into the playoffs. And again, last year he was absolutely abyssmal when it mattered most. He didn't just lose, he shat his pants, slipped in the mess and fell flat on his face in it. It was an ugly, ugly situation.

So clearly to me, people need to look past stats with some of these guys and start thinking about how much consequence they have on a teams success. Thus far, he absolutely has not been enough of a difference maker to be worth the money he makes or the "elite status" he's attained.

[Konnan511 1,736]

I voted Leino because with a healthy roster he will be able to produce more as he won't be playing against the top lines of the other teams. The line of Filppula Leino and Williams was the best before Flips and JWills injuries and I expect them to be outstanding after the olympic break and going into the playoffs.

[Finnish Wing 110]

Finnish Wing has 11 LGW accounts? Surely thats against the rules...

I voted for Miller.

The question in the post is kinda odd, because neither of the guys will be gone. You probably don't even read my posts.

[uk_redwing 495]

You probably don't even read my posts.

I do ignore 90% of your posts.