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Gnredwing

Howard the rest of the way

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Why not switch between the two?

One of them is going to click eventually and so is the defense. At least we hope so.

Eventually that'd be fine, but I'm just saying give Osgood the next two starts. While I to tend to think that Howard gives us a better shot at winning (even if only slightly), you're completely right, goaltending isn't going to change the game for us. Phoenix would have beat us with Osgood in net and Minnesota would have beat us if Howard was in tonight.

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:lol:

Howard didn't flail? Oh boy are you a strange character.

Get real, Howard reacts to shots. When he doesn't, that's when I'll say he doesn't. It's ok to not know anything about goaltending Doc, almost no one here does.

Edited by zackmorris

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regardless rust or whatever you want to call it osgood just doesnt have what it takes to be number 1 anymore. for the past 2 seasons now we have heard all the excuses from osgood it's rust ,not in shape and what not. you've been in the league how long and you can't shake rust after 1or 2 games and you don't know what it takes to get in shape for a season?. come on, i like osgood he was awsome for us in the past but everyone can see he's just to slow up and down and side to side. i don't know i just dont see the passion when he's in the net. i personally think howard has played worthy of the starting role

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Get real, Howard reacts to shots. When he doesn't, that's when I'll say he doesn't. It's ok to not know anything about goaltending Doc, almost no one here does.

Flailing is a reaction.

Do you think Osgood has tourrettes or something? He just flails regardless of what is going on?

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I don't care about the numbers as much as some people. It's the fact that Ozzie's f*** ups look a hell of alot worse than Howard's. Howard can let in 5 and I still feel more confident with him in there. Ozzie looks at any moment like he may give up an easy whiffer backbreaking goal.

The team didn't play well tonight but I'm looking at Osgood on the whole-all season. What the f*** has he done to earn anything from anyone? Tonight was another joke, and sorry but he looked like he was going to f*** up and let in 3 more that luckily hit him.

This is a thread about our goaltending. I'm talking about our goalie. Who can't make a huge save to save his life. But we don't really expect that, do we? I see Howard doing it. But we don't think about it when he does, more specifically, we don't think about what might have been if he didn't. He does that quite a bit. We're just too happy to think about it. Ozzie doesn't do that-he doesn't make big saves anymore.

This is mroe about what I see with my eyes and ultimately I almost always end up right about these things in the end, because I don't let bias into my thoughts on a player-Ozzie is shaky in the net and looks like he doesn't have the quickness to react to a shot anymore. Howard does.

This happens on every sports forum. Every player has a fan base of a certain size who will defend him to the death in spite of any bad performance. It's always everyone elses fault. Even when that player is sent f***in packing.

Quite frankly, I think you're way off the mark with your early season analysis. Even in some of those losses, Osgood played great. Go back to the replays, the GDT's, the articles. Osgood certainly had some stinker games (not Toronto though, team was hell and he was sick) but he had a lot of real solid games as well and even great games. I remember two losses in particular in October where the consensus was that Osgood was the only reason we didn't get blown out.

I'll tell you flat-out, the tides turned for Osgood when Howard got hot, plain and simple. Osgood never played as bad as Howard simply played great for awhile. Suddenly Osgood is "terrible" and in the process, he starts getting minimal starts and collecting rust and ends up not having the greatest games when he actually gets a start. This just adds fuel to the fire that Osgood sucks and suddenly it morphs not only into Osgood sucking lately, but Osgood sucking all season and not being a regular season goalie.

Of course, the whole argument is based on one season, and no one in their right mind (probably not even you!) was suggesting that Osgood was playing even remotely like last season until Howard got hot. He had that stinker game against Buffalo I believe, but followed it up with a shut out and two games with .950+ save percentages. Then he got sick and Toronto happened and he hasn't gotten a chance or a break from anyone since.

Again, I think you're really forgetting how absolutely horrible this entire team was in October. The defense looked worse than they have the last few games every game that month. And again, even in some of the losses, Osgood was considered a bright spot. The whole "Osgood can't win in the regular season" only picked up steam again after Howard got rolling. You are forgetting the facts if you think otherwise.

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Like I said before, Howard can let in 5 and still look better. He's nto just flailing at the shot hoping it hits him.

I gotta go at this too. Now bear in mind, not once have I blamed Howard or dogged Howard about last nights loss and I am really as much of a fan of Howard as I am of Osgood at the end of the day. I was at the game, so I think I have a decent perspective on the matter as well, and I find it hilarious that you mention the flailing as Howard was flailing and flopping all over last night. We were cracking up and comparing it to the days of Hasek as were other people in the section. He knows how to stop the puck no doubt, but it's oftentimes not real pretty. He didn't face a ton of chances or pressure and rarely was called on to make big saves, but he still gave up two goals. By the end though, really, with two minutes left, it's not like it mattered as it was just two goals and we were on our way to a win. Then he gave up 3 in about 5 minutes of game time. And the team in front of him absolutely crumbled, but it wasn't like any of those goals were mind-blowing goals either. It's not like "even the epically-great Howard was fooled!" The defense broke down and Howard had nothing to counter it. Plain and simple. And that's how it's gone.

Now again, I'm not dogging Howard on the matter. I think he's cooled off, but that happens. No one's as hot as he was all the time and there are clearly bigger issues than goaltending at play in all of these games. So I still walk away and say no harm, no foul. But the idea that he's fundamentally more sound and stable than Osgood is just laughable. Osgood's got his weak points like any guy, but he's got a lot of fundamental strong points that have carried him through a long career and to multiple Cups. Howard's still very much a rookie with some rough edges. He knows how to stop pucks pretty damn well, but he's still figuring out what to do next with the puck. He'll learn soon enough, but it's definitely not all there yet.

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First off, neither goalie has been getting support offensively or defensively. The team as a whole is playing like crap. I watched the game against Minnesota, and it seemed like every time up the ice it was an odd man rush. Osgood got no support. and Both Howard and Osgood have benfitted from some awesome plays from their teammates.

The reason I think the Wings are struggling is not due to our goaltenders, but the philosophy of Ken Holland. Invest in defense, and get a "good enough" goalie. Up till this year the Wings have not needed lights out goaltending. Rarely was it necessary for a goalie to steal a game. Now, it is precisely what we need. I don't think either goalie is capable of it. One due to rookie status, and one due to....well I don't know exactly why Ozzie's head is up his ass, but nonetheless something is wrong.

I really hope in the next few games several things happen. The first being a rotation of goalies until one goalie has a dominating performance. Secondly, statement games from either goalie. A shutout, or a game with monster save after monster save. Three, a total and complete effort top to bottom. And finally, four, wins.

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I'm not directly blaming Osgood on this game, but the fact of the matter is that with this team and how they play in front of either goalie, Howard really is the only chance - and I admit not a great one - mostly due to his rebound control. But at least he can stop the puck as his numbers indicate. Ozzie slappies seem to forget that is the first job of the goalie. Osgood is just not as quick and positionally sound as he used to be and he is small, small, small in net. Ever notice how many "unlucky" goals he gives up? This is because he is too deep in the crease and isn't big enough or quick enough anymore to cover the net to have the "unlucky" shots bounce of him.

But whatever - drafting higher is an option.

Edited by clutchngrab

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Osgood isn't the starter anymore, I know alot of you want him to be but he just doesn't have it anymore end of discussion.

Meh - IMO it's rather debatable if Ozzie still has what it takes to be a legit #1 netminder in this league.

Like GMR said - sitting Ozzie for long stretches hasn't done neither him, nor the team any good...Problem is - does Babcock continue to play Ozzie 'till he gets ouuta his funk, and risk losing several more games due to rust, or go right back to Howard, and pin all our hopes on the kid?

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Yeah, I have full faith in him over Osgood and have for a long long time. And if he is the #1 that you all want him to be being benched for a while shouldn't matter all that much. Even when he is playing all the time he always has some, "Rust," or some other bulls*** that you all use to justify him sucking. He is done stick a fork in him. Let him play out the year, start grooming our other goalies in Grand Rapids, and move on with the franchise.

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both goalies suck. For next season get new goalies.

I don't see how you could say that Howard sucks. He is a rookie goalie, with a 9th in the league GAA, and 6th in the league save percentage. He was in the top 5 in GAA, but the recent meltdowns defensively have slightly deflated his statistics. Personally, I thought he played well against Phoenix. The Wings just ended up sitting back in that game, and kinda left him out to dry. He isn't going to make every save. Howard is a goalie that can make 30+ saves a night, regularly. Have some faith in this guy. He is going to be the one that takes over as our main goalie. Ozzie is starting to get up there in age.

I can only imagine what Howard's game will be like in the future. With the experience he is gaining from this year, he will hone his game and become our go to guy.

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I don't see how you could say that Howard sucks. He is a rookie goalie, with a 9th in the league GAA, and 6th in the league save percentage. He was in the top 5 in GAA, but the recent meltdowns defensively have slightly deflated his statistics. Personally, I thought he played well against Phoenix. The Wings just ended up sitting back in that game, and kinda left him out to dry. He isn't going to make every save. Howard is a goalie that can make 30+ saves a night, regularly. Have some faith in this guy. He is going to be the one that takes over as our main goalie. Ozzie is starting to get up there in age.

I can only imagine what Howard's game will be like in the future. With the experience he is gaining from this year, he will hone his game and become our go to guy.

Howard was never really good in AHL, Daniel Larsson outplayed him. I wonder when Larsson finally will get his chance to shine.

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Red Wings fans, generally speaking, are a bunch of morons when it comes to goaltending talk. No goalie could save the Red Wings these past few gams with how bad the defense has been. Not Osgood, not Howard, not a brick wall on the net. Osgood and/or Howard have to play a bit better latley and it'd be nice if they could've stolen a game, but they are getting hung out to dry lately.

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I think we need to put Osgood back in there. Like someone said earlier, he's out of pratice, but only for this season. We can't expect for a miracle with him and he fix everything. I don't think Osgood has been out of practice for the last two seasons, remember in '09 we played in the final playoffs, lost the Cup by one freckin game, and then in '08 we did win. Howard is not going to get us to the playoffs the way he's been playing, and neither will the rest of the team. We are having a very OFF season this year. Howards, slipping to much and isn't fast in recovering....I know the real problem here, we've all been spoiled way too much with Hasek. There's no Goalie like him :( I miss Hasek. Hopefully, whatever Babcock decides to do (keep Howard, or put Osgood in) they can work together and shape back up. We still have time to win this thing. Good luck to the guys, Detroit Red Wings all the way!

Edited by taken11400

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Red Wings fans, generally speaking, are a bunch of morons when it comes to goaltending talk. No goalie could save the Red Wings these past few gams with how bad the defense has been. Not Osgood, not Howard, not a brick wall on the net. Osgood and/or Howard have to play a bit better latley and it'd be nice if they could've stolen a game, but they are getting hung out to dry lately.

Finally, someone with a actual functioning brain speaking.

Thanks you, sir. Well said.

All this bitching about goaltenders.

I reall wonder if other fans generate this much horsecarp as well on other internet-forums..

There will not be a single goaltender who can live up to the expectations in this town.

Look what goaltenders we have had the last 10 years: Osgood, Hasek, Legace, Joseph and now Howard.

Not a bad list of goaltenders, woudn't you agree ? But somehow we were able to found there weak spot and treat them like s***.

Playing for Detroit means you get dropped like a bag of dirt as soon as you hit a bad stretch or you have some difficulty on or off the ice.

It's pathetic.

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Despite Osgood's poor play (yes, it's poor play, positionally and he's very slow) I kind of want to see what he does with 2 consecutive starts. But I guess that's unlikely.

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Howard has lost 4 of his last 5 if I'm not mistaken.

How is Detroit better off with Howard in net if they can't win with him in net? Riddle me that please.

When you turn the puck over 19 times in one game it's pretty tough to win.

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Zackmorris,

Don't run yourself ragged trying to pound some common sense into Doc Holliday, Dcm007, Haroldsnepsts or any other Osgood fanatic. They don't play or haven't played the game of hockey. They don't have an understand of the position. It's pointless. Let them lounge around in fantasy land in denial. Others here will do the same. Luckily the coach is not so mentally incapacitated, so we don't have to worry about it.

He'll continue to put Howard in goal. Regardless of whether he gets the win or not, he gives the team the best chance of doing so.

Edited by Pucks

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When you turn the puck over 19 times in one game it's pretty tough to win.

My point exactly.

Zackmorris,

Don't run yourself ragged trying to pound some common sense into Doc Holliday, Dcm007, Haroldsnepsts or any other Osgood fanatic. They don't play or haven't played the game of hockey. They don't have an understand of the position. It's pointless. Let them lounge around in fantasy land in denial. Others here will do the same. Luckily the coach is not so mentally incapacitated, so we don't have to worry about it.

He'll continue to put Howard in goal. Regardless of whether he gets the win or not, he gives the team the best chance of doing so.

If you aren't going to be civil then don't bother mentioning me. Despite my "fanatic" behavior I discuss the issue instead of throw ad hom attacks at people who disagree with me as if they mean something. Especially when you list baseless assertions.

Grow up.

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Zackmorris,

Don't run yourself ragged trying to pound some common sense into Doc Holliday, Dcm007, Haroldsnepsts or any other Osgood fanatic. They don't play or haven't played the game of hockey. They don't have an understand of the position. It's pointless. Let them lounge around in fantasy land in denial. Others here will do the same. Luckily the coach is not so mentally incapacitated, so we don't have to worry about it.

He'll continue to put Howard in goal. Regardless of whether he gets the win or not, he gives the team the best chance of doing so.

:lol:

Thank you for clarifying that for me! I had no idea that I actually never played hockey since shortly after I could walk. I guess I better go see a shrink to sort some s*** out...

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Ozzie has sucked, but Babcock dropped the ball by sitting him for an entire month.

Now Ozzie is out of rhythm and he sucks

Babcock needs to be held accountable for the whole goaltending fiasco this season. A poor bit of coaching on his part.

That and a little more I think. Just where does the buck stop? Coaching has to be a factor - something is not working.

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