Is women's hockey too out of whack?

[Jwo 7]

I found this interesting

http://www.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/02/20/olympi...dex.html?hpt=T3

Vancouver, British Columbia (CNN) -- 18-0. 10-1. 13-1. Those are the scores of the first three games for the Canadian women's Olympic team.

The United States team outscored its opponents by 30 goals.

In this country where emotions and conversations are tied to the results of the men's game, the women's team's dominance has been a little embarrassing.

"After witnessing the early routs at the hands of the Canadian and U.S. women's hockey teams, it's hard to see how these predetermined massacres can be deemed sporting. A sport dominated so comprehensively by two teams, year after year, can barely be considered a competition. For Canada then to celebrate so fulsomely over such hollow victories speaks poorly about us," a resident of Abbotsford, British Columbia, wrote in a letter to the editors of the Vancouver Sun.

Women's hockey is being contested for the fourth time at the Olympics, and Canada, which has won two golds and one silver, is a sure thing to meet the United States in the final.

The issue is how long will women's hockey stay in the games? Will it get the boot one day as softball did after the 2008 Beijing Games? Or will it be like soccer, with other nations eventually catching up to the powerhouses?

Rene Fasel, the president of the International Ice Hockey Federation, said women's Olympic hockey will be on the program for the Sochi Games in 2014.

"It will be our task to help other federations. We have to go through this," Fasel said Thursday. He said there were similar blowouts in the early days of the men's tournament. The women will make faster progress, he said.

But hockey journalists are concerned.

"Actually, the gap in talent is widening," said Toronto Sun columnist Steve Simmons. "The Canadians and U.S. have improved more than other countries."

Players in North America have many more opportunities to play and many more players. In Canada there are 88,000 female players. In the United States there are more than 60,000. In China there are 267.

The younger North American players, many of whom started off playing with boys, are much stronger and faster than the members of the teams in the 1998 Olympics, he said. Other countries haven't kept up.

There are also U.S. colleges that have funded teams and Canadian women are flocking to schools in the States to get hockey scholarships, Simmons said.

Russian players would also love to come to the United States, but they have a six-team league where players make a small stipend. The NCAA looks at it as a professional league.

"They just close this road for us. There are a lot of hockey girls right now in Russia who want to play in the U.S.," Russian winger Iya Gavrilova told Sarah Kwak of Sports Illustrated. "Like [Alexandra Vafina]. She wants it so bad, but she can't because everybody's saying it's pro hockey."

SI.com: Next host of Winter Olympics no fan of women's hockey

The program in Russia, like many countries, is stymied by a chauvinistic lack of funding.

Julie Foudy, a longtime member of the U.S. Soccer team and now an ESPN commentator, said she understands how the players on the U. S. and Canadian teams feel. In the early 1990s, her teams were similarly dominant, especially when they played in World Cup qualifiers. It will take two things -- time and a shifting of mind-sets -- for the lesser teams to catch up, she said.

She said when she was a player, opponents would tell her that it took the exposure of major tournaments for people to realize that women can compete on a high level. By seeing how good the U.S. players were, officials in other countries softened their positions on women playing sports.

"It becomes more acceptable," Foudy said by phone. "They change their attitudes and say, 'Why aren't we better at that?' "

With time, she said, those changes translate into an increased effort to bolster the national team.

Meanwhile, the hockey coaches and players from the United States and Canada defended themselves after the blowouts.

It's a matter of respect for the game, U.S. coach Mark Johnson said.

"Their players are doing the same thing as our players and living the Olympic dream," he said.

Canadian coach Melody Davidson said it is a "no-win situation" and that critics should afford women the same forbearance shown for the men's game.

"It seems like there is a lot more patience on one side of the puck," she told the Globe and Mail of Toronto, Ontario. "We didn't come here to put on a second-class show. We came here to play our best."

[edicius 3,269]

Men's Olympic Hockey used to be like that too, though. Even more so. At the 1924 Winter Olympics, the Canadian hockey team outscored its opponents 122-3 en route to gold.

[Reds4Life 51]

The problem with womens hockey is that it is like watching 9 year old guys play. Very boring, no contact, slow pace of game..just a freakin joke.

[dat's sick 1,002]

Women's hockey is going to be thrown out of the Olympics if it doesn't start getting more competitive.

I don't understand why the Canadians don't slow down after they have a 5-6 goal lead. But I guess they're run by the evil coach from Mighty Ducks: "It's not worth winning if you can't win big!".

[SweWings 45]

Women's hockey is going to be thrown out of the Olympics if it doesn't start getting more competitive.

I don't understand why the Canadians don't slow down after they have a 5-6 goal lead. But I guess they're run by the evil coach from Mighty Ducks: "It's not worth winning if you can't win big!".

What would they do though - just skate around at midice? The difference between the teams is stupid and it's gonna take a long time before teams will be able to compete with Canada and USA. Last time when Sweden beat the US was just a fluke.

[dragonballgtz 273]

Oh yeah, just look at that pro-league Russian team going just dominating huh That aint no pro-league there NCAA, thats a second rate one if that.

I agree with Reds4life that body checking should be allowed.

I see a long term fix and a quick short term fix (ready for next Olympics). The long term would count on for countries to get embarrassed/ashamed of what they put onto the ice and put money into developing their players. They might not have a chance come next Olympics but further down the road it will get tighter. The short term would be allow players from all over the world to play in the NCAA league even with their "pro" experience.

Each one of those options wont be easy to do but it's better then doing nothing. Which will be bad for any lady that wants to play hockey at the Olympics.

Edited February 20, 2010 by dragonballgtz

[seeinred 1,488]

Women's hockey is going to be thrown out of the Olympics if it doesn't start getting more competitive.

I don't understand why the Canadians don't slow down after they have a 5-6 goal lead. But I guess they're run by the evil coach from Mighty Ducks: "It's not worth winning if you can't win big!".

Just because goal differential means something. And it's 1000 times more boring to see a team trying NOT to score when they should be than seeing them blow the other team out.

[softshoes 83]

2 words: Womens softball.

The gap in talent got it removed from the games. I can see it happening with hockey. Expecting a team to ease up won't happen either. The losing team would look much worse if it turned into keep away(Think Trevor Thompson and Dats). Maybe a mercy rule is needed, but then it seems like Little League.

Could you imagine watching it on a larger ice surface?

[ltgator333 3]

I also think there should be checking in the women's game, for the reasons that ice hockey includes checking, and I think the female players are perfectly able (perhaps in some situations, more physically capable of checking other female players than male players are physically capable of checking other male players- think about the general differences between the male and female form.) and they're likely willing to do so. So why stop them? The fact that it's against the rules doesn't seem to stop the Canadian or US players from doing it during they're games vs eachother if memory serves.

As for the competitiveness of the tournament, either these European countries who have been major players in the men's tournament get tired of being embarrassed in the women's tournament, drop the gender based 'tude and develop their programs or they don't. There's no forcing them, and I do think that the NCAA's position on Russian women making peanuts in "pro" leagues is wrong, as usual with the NCAA imo. The sports scholarships that the NCAA allows schools to give to student athletes is undoubtedly worth much more than those Russian female hockey players make.

Will it or should it get dropped from the Olympics imo? I say let them check and play the game, include it for Sochi and if none of the European programs step up and improve, then it's time to consider dropping it. The good thing that has already been done is the exposure is out there. I saw an interview of one of the Swedish women's team's players, and she said that since the sports inclusion to the Olympics there are more girls going to the rinks in her country. Any of our resident Swedes know anything about this? What I'm getting at is, the good has already been done, and I really think that even if it is dropped it will only be a matter of time (two winter games perhaps) before it's back.

[cjm502 165]

I also think there should be checking in the women's game, for the reasons that ice hockey includes checking, and I think the female players are perfectly able (perhaps in some situations, more physically capable of checking other female players than male players are physically capable of checking other male players- think about the general differences between the male and female form.) and they're likely willing to do so. So why stop them? The fact that it's against the rules doesn't seem to stop the Canadian or US players from doing it during they're games vs eachother if memory serves.

As for the competitiveness of the tournament, either these European countries who have been major players in the men's tournament get tired of being embarrassed in the women's tournament, drop the gender based 'tude and develop their programs or they don't. There's no forcing them, and I do think that the NCAA's position on Russian women making peanuts in "pro" leagues is wrong, as usual with the NCAA imo. The sports scholarships that the NCAA allows schools to give to student athletes is undoubtedly worth much more than those Russian female hockey players make.

Will it or should it get dropped from the Olympics imo? I say let them check and play the game, include it for Sochi and if none of the European programs step up and improve, then it's time to consider dropping it. The good thing that has already been done is the exposure is out there. I saw an interview of one of the Swedish women's team's players, and she said that since the sports inclusion to the Olympics there are more girls going to the rinks in her country. Any of our resident Swedes know anything about this? What I'm getting at is, the good has already been done, and I really think that even if it is dropped it will only be a matter of time (two winter games perhaps) before it's back.

Absolutely. Just because their women doesnt mean they cant hit. I do not think this rule will ever get changed, but we can all hope.

[SweWings 45]

Will it or should it get dropped from the Olympics imo? I say let them check and play the game, include it for Sochi and if none of the European programs step up and improve, then it's time to consider dropping it. The good thing that has already been done is the exposure is out there. I saw an interview of one of the Swedish women's team's players, and she said that since the sports inclusion to the Olympics there are more girls going to the rinks in her country. Any of our resident Swedes know anything about this? What I'm getting at is, the good has already been done, and I really think that even if it is dropped it will only be a matter of time (two winter games perhaps) before it's back.

Women's hockey in Sweden suffers from the same thing that most women's team sports suffer from: lack of money, media attention and professional support. To expect these to appear within a short period of time all over the world is unreasonable. Instead I'm guessing we'll see a lot more women who want to make hockey a "career" come over to NA for college, in the same fashion as a lot of soccer players come from all over the world to play in Europe, for a while at least.

[SweWings 45]

I also think there should be checking in the women's game, for the reasons that ice hockey includes checking, and I think the female players are perfectly able (perhaps in some situations, more physically capable of checking other female players than male players are physically capable of checking other male players- think about the general differences between the male and female form.) and they're likely willing to do so. So why stop them? The fact that it's against the rules doesn't seem to stop the Canadian or US players from doing it during they're games vs eachother if memory serves.

Exactly. Quite a few players from the US and Canadian teams play or practice with men's teams and can probably already handle it.

[wings1110 184]

hahahahaha......womans hockey

[cupforwings 138]

The problem with womens hockey is that it is like watching 9 year old guys play. Very boring, no contact, slow pace of game..just a freakin joke.

Yeah it is.... It looks like I'm watching a squirt hockey game: slow, no checking, weak goaltending.

However, I don't think women could handle the hitting aspect of the game. I defiantly would agree that it would make it more entertaining, but a lot of those women are very small. I remember during the Olympics at the Torino games watching a women put an average body check on another women in the boards. The girl went to the ice and was CRYING for 5 minutes. She was fine and continued to play, but it seems like their pain threshold is pretty low (not all, but a lot). This happened more then one time, a girl getting hit and going down crying. Think about it. You would get some decently sized American or Canadian women hitting some undersized Chinese women and she is going to go down. I feel hitting is not in women's sports for a reason... It would make the games much more entertaining to watch though, but I just don't see it happening.

[Original-Six 254]

What really makes it boring is when one team can even break the puck out to center ice let alone get any shots on goal....

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

The program in Russia, like many countries, is stymied by a chauvinistic lack of funding.

Canadian coach Melody Davidson said it is a "no-win situation" and that critics should afford women the same forbearance shown for the men's game.

[Guest Lidstromboli]

What really makes it boring is when one team can even break the puck out to center ice let alone get any shots on goal....

it'd probably be easier to play the game when they didn't have to worry about taking a penalty for bumping into someone..

[Marty Barry 230]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

[SiLkK19 67]

The high pitched yelling gets annoying as hell too.

[GROwl 5]

Adding checking to women's hockey would only further hurt the development of the sport. It's difficult enough already to keep girls/women in.

From what I understand, there is one women's league in all of the whole West Michigan area. It covers ages 18-60 and a huge range of experience...from almost beginner level to college players. There are 5 teams. For years, they have wanted a 6th one. But the attrition due to job and family changes offsets the new entries. Adding checking to the game would result in fewer entries and more exits. Its one thing to leave the kids at home with Dad so that mom can get out for some good exercise and fun. Another whole ballgame if injuries and concussions became the norm.

While adding checking to the game might make it more entertaining to watch, fan entertainment isn't a big concern to the sport...when the only people who come to watch are a small handful of boyfriends and husbands.

[Lovin Jiri Fischer 147]

Adding checking to women's hockey would only further hurt the development of the sport. It's difficult enough already to keep girls/women in.

From what I understand, there is one women's league in all of the whole West Michigan area. It covers ages 18-60 and a huge range of experience...from almost beginner level to college players. There are 5 teams. For years, they have wanted a 6th one. But the attrition due to job and family changes offsets the new entries. Adding checking to the game would result in fewer entries and more exits. Its one thing to leave the kids at home with Dad so that mom can get out for some good exercise and fun. Another whole ballgame if injuries and concussions became the norm.

While adding checking to the game might make it more entertaining to watch, fan entertainment isn't a big concern to the sport...when the only people who come to watch are a small handful of boyfriends and husbands.

Why? How do you know women don't want to hit if they were given the chance? What's the difference to the kids if mom gets injured or dad gets injured? Either way, it's a parent getting hurt and it is hard on the kids. Obviously pregnant women shouldn't be hitting, but what about everyone else? If mom gets a concussion maybe dad can drop the kids off at school tomorrow and take care of dinner.

I think putting hitting into women's hockey would even up the game a little bit. Right now, certain teams can win on just skill alone, but if everyone is hitting and playing more physically then it becomes a little harder.

[beepbeep 3]

There is no reason for me to waste 2 hours watching a game that the outcome is already known.. How much pride can any player feel in playing such a game?

The US and Canadian team members should be too embarrassed to take the podium for the medal ceremony it's such a sham.

The whole Olympic thing is kinda ridiculous anymore. Table tennis? Volleyball? Nrxt how about a pie eating contest or maybe leapfrog?

[ceebs 2]

Why? How do you know women don't want to hit if they were given the chance? What's the difference to the kids if mom gets injured or dad gets injured? Either way, it's a parent getting hurt and it is hard on the kids. Obviously pregnant women shouldn't be hitting, but what about everyone else? If mom gets a concussion maybe dad can drop the kids off at school tomorrow and take care of dinner.

I think putting hitting into women's hockey would even up the game a little bit. Right now, certain teams can win on just skill alone, but if everyone is hitting and playing more physically then it becomes a little harder.

The talent difference in womens hockey is to great to allow checking. At the olympic level players from the USA and Canada would absolutely destroy the much weaker skating players from other nations. Do you think this is going to get more girls to join in nations that are still developing hockey?

Also there are many more mens league anywhere you go. This allows men and boys starting hockey to always play against similarly skilled players. Around here for boys playing hockey there is 5 levels (AAA, AA, A, B, rec) for girls there is only 1 level. This means there are some very good girl players (some AAA calibre) playing against some very weak players. If they were allowed to check you would see these weak players literally being carried off in stretchers, then quitting the game. It would be the equivalent of having the AAA boys playing in the rec leagues, then allowing contact. They want to increase enrollment in womens hockey so having players quit would hurt the game.

I do find womens hockey harder to take seriously because there is no contact but they will not and should not be adding checking anytime soon.

[GROwl 5]

Exactly. The risk of injury is present for both men and women. However, it increases with the huge differential in skill level and age. There are dozens of mens leagues where one can select the appropriate age group and skill level...some allowing checking and some not.

If the ladies wanted checking, they could change their league rules (trust me, the women are not shy about voicing their opinions...about anything!). However, they are smart enough to realize that if they want to sustain having a league to play in or possibly grow, they select the rules that are appropriate for the most number of players...not for the few.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

This women's hockey tournament would have been better had Canada and the U.S. played a 7 game series.