62 replies to this topic

[RedWingAbner]

Can we stop with Mike Green please? It'd be akin to playing with 4 forwards, the 4th being listed as a defenseman. Yep, his point totals ARE going to be decent. But he's not a good defenseman.

I am surprised that we aren't seeing guys just decide they stand a better chance of getting an award bonus by not playing forward and switching back to defense. Next year, Ovechkin is the #1 defenseman on Washington.

[AIK'91]

Maybe they just got tired of voting for Lidstrom each year?

It's important to note though, a lot of these awards are based purely on stats. Many of the voters (in this case, from the Professional Hockey Writers' Association) often only get to see each team play a handful of games since it's almost impossible to follow all 30 teams very closely. So in the end, they tend to look at the numbers too much.

Nick is still the most reliable defenseman in the game. There isn't another guy you'd want on the blueline at the end of a close game. That still makes him the best.

[b.shanafan14]

They are really going to need a Bobby Orr award if they are going to nominate players like Green. Like the opposite of a Selke, best offensive defenseman instead of defensive forward. Green is absolute s*** on defense, period. Half the goals Stamkos scored this season were when he was playing the point I believe, what stops them from nominating him?

[dropkickshanahans]

No Lids, the first step of withdrawal.

Imagine if they give it to Green, a Norris winner that didn't make his Olympic team.

That's what I was thinking as well. And with his league leading 76 points for defensemen, he'll probably win it as well since the Norris is all about who has the most points apparently.

[Crymson]

That's not surprising. Lidstrom's performance in the first half of the season was below his normal level of play.

[titanium2]

[newfy]

If you take off the Homer glasses guys its easy to see that Lids didn't really deserve to win or really get nominated. Its an award for best defenseman, Nick has been shakier then usual this year on the defensive end with almost no offensive output. Doughty and Keith are both deserving, not Green however. Nick simply isn't the best in the game anymore, its a changing of the guard.

I'm pretty sure its awarded to the best defenseman not best defensive defenseman. Noone has ever said defenseman aren't supposed to put up points too, just like forwards aren't supposed to just forecheck.

[CopenhagenWing]

I was reading some of the comments on TSN and saw this gem:

Great Picks! No Overrated players this year! I think anyone of the finalist would be a great choice. For everybody that thinks Green is such a defensive liability, how does +35 sound! It doesn't matter what team you play for in the NHL if you put up those kind plus/minus numbers you are doing something right. Finally!!! Some good young defenseman that can put up points, the league has been stagnate for that past ten years since the likes of leetch, bourque and coffey were in their prime. Defenseman have been winning the Norris with 40 points (ie Lidstrom, great defenseman but if he was in the league with the three above mentioned names he might have won 'one' Norris!)

[55fan]

If you take off the Homer glasses guys its easy to see that Lids didn't really deserve to win or really get nominated. Its an award for best defenseman, Nick has been shakier then usual this year on the defensive end with almost no offensive output. Doughty and Keith are both deserving, not Green however. Nick simply isn't the best in the game anymore, its a changing of the guard.

I'm pretty sure its awarded to the best defenseman not best defensive defenseman. Noone has ever said defenseman aren't supposed to put up points too, just like forwards aren't supposed to just forecheck.

To whom are you replying? I only saw one post that thought that Lids was maybe a third-place choice. The rest of us just think he's a great d-man whose play may not be what it was when he was young, but is still a fantastic player who we would take over pretty much anyone in a heartbeat.

That he is not a Norris contender is not a statement that he is no good, nor are we upset about this. As you say, it's a changing of the guard. Nick still brings leadership, hockey smarts, grace under fire, and a very high level of play. No homer glasses here.

[newfy]

To whom are you replying? I only saw one post that thought that Lids was maybe a third-place choice. The rest of us just think he's a great d-man whose play may not be what it was when he was young, but is still a fantastic player who we would take over pretty much anyone in a heartbeat.

That he is not a Norris contender is not a statement that he is no good, nor are we upset about this. As you say, it's a changing of the guard. Nick still brings leadership, hockey smarts, grace under fire, and a very high level of play. No homer glasses here.

The general feel (not on this thread in general but the whole website) is that everyone still thinks Lids is the best in the game. While he is still good he just simply isn't the greatest anymore.

[blikst]

If you take off the Homer glasses guys its easy to see that Lids didn't really deserve to win or really get nominated. Its an award for best defenseman, Nick has been shakier then usual this year on the defensive end with almost no offensive output. Doughty and Keith are both deserving, not Green however. Nick simply isn't the best in the game anymore, its a changing of the guard.

I'm pretty sure its awarded to the best defenseman not best defensive defenseman. Noone has ever said defenseman aren't supposed to put up points too, just like forwards aren't supposed to just forecheck.

Analogy fail.

[Trilobite]

The general feel (not on this thread in general but the whole website) is that everyone still thinks Lids is the best in the game. While he is still good he just simply isn't the greatest anymore.

Lidstrom is not the best in the game anymore. If you think this then you=homer, pure and simple.

[55fan]

The general feel (not on this thread in general but the whole website) is that everyone still thinks Lids is the best in the game. While he is still good he just simply isn't the greatest anymore.

Ah, gotcha. I was just looking at the thread.

In many ways, he is still the best, but in others age has taken its toll.

He may not be the best overall, but he is still the best in a lot of areas. No surprise that he wasn't nominated, but not ready to be put out to pasture yet either.

[titanium2]

If he decides to come back I'm sure he can win another won if he wants to.

[seeinred]

The general feel (not on this thread in general but the whole website) is that everyone still thinks Lids is the best in the game. While he is still good he just simply isn't the greatest anymore.

I've said this before, but for me, there's still not a defenseman in this league I'd take over Nick in the last minute of a game whether it's a tie game or a 1 goal game either way. His play is still nothing short of spectacular.

[RedLightGoesOn]

LOL Mike Green.... HAHAHAHAHAHA. Whew. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA.....

[newfy]

I've said this before, but for me, there's still not a defenseman in this league I'd take over Nick in the last minute of a game whether it's a tie game or a 1 goal game either way. His play is still nothing short of spectacular.

Yeah but over the course of a full regular season I would probably rather have Keith or Doughty. Well doughty for sure. The problem is is that the game isn't only one minute, its an 82 game grind and age has taken its toll on Nick.

Analogy fail.

Thanks for the input on the thread.

[BamaWing]

I'm a HUGE fan of Doughty but you can't argue if either Doughty or Keith win.


As for Green, I'll hold my comments to myself.

[mjlegend]

Out of these three, Keith should prolly win. Best overall game, now in his prime, etc..

Puck Daddy favors Doughty:

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Norris-Trophy-Finalists-Green-vs-Doughty-vs-K;_ylt=AikQ2RY1WTQc0VHh9VlA..3CfgM6?urn=nhl,236318
...

There are a couple of numbers that I couldn't get past for Mike Green. First, he was on the ice for more goals-against at even strength (50) than Doughty (45) in fewer games, and Doughty had a better goals-against-per-60-minutes of even-strength hockey (1.95) than Green (2.36) and Keith (2.77).

Keith played against the toughest opponents 5-on-5, with a Quality of Competition rating of 0.081. (Head here for an explanation for how it's computed.) Doughty's (0.027) was higher than Green's (0.005). All stats are via Behind the Net.

[McAwesome]

I figured Keith would be a finalist, pleasantly surprised to see Doughty in the running, disappointed that Green is being considered.

I feel strongly that Keith will win this year, but Doughty will likely win multiple times before his career is over, he's just that good. Maybe not the best shutdown defenseman, but as others have said he is highly visible when on the ice, has great hockey sense and no glaring weaknesses.

As far as I am concerned, Mike Green is basically a forward playing the point, and since Washington plays like they are on the power play all game, he never gets to play his true position. In all seriousness, he is a defensive liability on a good day, on a bad day he is painful to watch (just see the highlight package from game 2 of the Montreal series above), the only reason he is more than an afterthought is because of his numbers, which admittedly are impressive but are misleading if you ignore his play in the defensive zone.