21 replies to this topic

[hockey&beer]

Looks like someone is trying to stir things up. It really takes some big hairy ones to put Doughty and Keith before Nick. I admit that he isn't what he used to be but he never makes the mistake of rushing when he shouldn't (Doughty) or trying to out muscle a winger and then gets beaten cleanly to the outside (Keith).

Linky-poo

Edited by hockey&beer, 31 July 2010 - 08:31 AM.

[achildr1]

This is getting absurd.

First, who would you rather have on the ice in Game 7 of the Cup Finals? Doughty or Lidstrom. That's what I thought, you don't want a kid that hasn't won jack out there when you could have a 4 time cup winner and a Olympic Gold medalist who won a string of Norris' quite recently. Even if he has lost would some would call 'pefection' in his game. That's still way better than Doughty or Keith are, period. I bet Duncan keith and Drew Doughty still watch Lidstrom when they play him to see how to be better than they are.

I wouldn't be suprised at all if Nick won the Norris this year, not one bit.

[MacK_Attack]

This is getting absurd.

First, who would you rather have on the ice in Game 7 of the Cup Finals? Doughty or Lidstrom. That's what I thought, you don't want a kid that hasn't won jack out there when you could have a 4 time cup winner and a Olympic Gold medalist who won a string of Norris' quite recently. Even if he has lost would some would call 'pefection' in his game. That's still way better than Doughty or Keith are, period. I bet Duncan keith and Drew Doughty still watch Lidstrom when they play him to see how to be better than they are.

I wouldn't be suprised at all if Nick won the Norris this year, not one bit.

Just to be fair, Doughty does have an Olympic Gold.

[Zion]

Everyone's entitled to their dumbassery. I certainly think Keith and Chara are above Norris Nick in terms of current shutdown defense, but the jury's not out on Doughty yet. Nick at 4th? I'll take it...

[RusDRW]

That's probably fair, except for Doughty. Lids at 40 is *perhaps* just slightly worse than Chara and Keith at their peak. He is still miles ahead of everyone else including Doughty and, for example, Boyle.

[achildr1]

"WHO IS THE BEST SHUTDOWN DEFENSEMAN?

Nicklas Lidstrom, Red Wings 25% Zdeno Chara, Bruins 23%
Shea Weber, Predators 10%
Chris Pronger, Flyers 9%
Scott Niedermayer, Ducks 7%

Based on a survey of 272 NHL players"

This poll was within the last year. Doughty and Keith don't even crack the top 5. Even if this was before the Hawks won the cup, 1 year doesn't raise Keith that high. This was only one category in this survey in which Lidstrom took more categories than any other defenseman. 272 players is about a third of NHL players, pretty strong support for the arguement.

Even if Nick slowed last year, he was judged way too harshly (as were the Wings in general) on the first half of last year.

[13dangledangle]

Lidstrom is one of the best Defenseman of all time...ALL TIME! He (and most the Wings) had a below average year, by there standards anyway. I also would not be at all surprised to see Nick get the Norris back this season.

[T.Low]

"WHO IS THE BEST SHUTDOWN DEFENSEMAN?

Nicklas Lidstrom, Red Wings 25% Zdeno Chara, Bruins 23%
Shea Weber, Predators 10%
Chris Pronger, Flyers 9%
Scott Niedermayer, Ducks 7%

Based on a survey of 272 NHL players"

This poll was within the last year. Doughty and Keith don't even crack the top 5. Even if this was before the Hawks won the cup, 1 year doesn't raise Keith that high. This was only one category in this survey in which Lidstrom took more categories than any other defenseman. 272 players is about a third of NHL players, pretty strong support for the arguement.

Even if Nick slowed last year, he was judged way too harshly (as were the Wings in general) on the first half of last year.

My first reaction after I read the OP link was "I don't care what this dude thinks, especially if this is all he has for reasons why. I want to see a poll from NHL players, they are the one's who really know"



Thank you very much, a1.

Edited by T.Low, 31 July 2010 - 10:28 AM.

[achildr1]

Btw, my bad about Doughty. Kudos to him for the Gold medal.

[GMRwings1983]

In the long term, Doughty is obviously going to be more useful than Lidstrom, who could be in his last year, but from a loyalty and class standpoint, this would be one of the worst trades in league history.

[Electrophile]

If the Wings trade Nick Lidstrom, I could see a sizeable chunk of our fan base disappearing. Very quickly.

[thedisappearer]

From the comments:

Who would you want at the point on the power play?

Couple of mph slower on the slap shot....ask the other teams goalies if they noticed.

Better yet ask them who they would rather have in front of them.

Agreed.

[haroldsnepsts]

Can Malik even read?

The only thing to take issue with is Dater positioning Lidstrom at #4 (and as much as like Doughty, #1 is a stretch).

Dater is a dumbass, but he doesn't say that Lidstrom is slipping fast. The actual quote, again:

4. Nick Lidstrom, Detroit - While it's tempting to want to drop him lower and cite his advancing age, the fact is he is still always the smartest player on the ice and posts better numbers than guys a lot younger. His slap shot has probably lost a couple miles an hour in the last couple years and there are times he's not always in the perfect defensive position anymore. But he's still one of the best, period.

I guess that's where Malik gets "slipping fast?" The fact is, Lidstrom is advancing in age. To me it sounds like he's making the opposite point. Saying yes he's getting old so you'd think he should be dropping, but he isn't. Everything Dater says from there on out sounds pretty accurate.

I have no problem with how he describes Lids. Only his rankings. Doughty should be near the top, but not number one. And Pronger should certainly be above Myers and also over Chara. He seems to be favoring heavily towards potential, or performance handicapped for youth, rather than actual play.

If he were actually following his criteria: effectiveness with the first pass or decision with the puck in their own zone, then there's no way Lids should be lower than #2. Doughty is great but young and still makes some mistakes in his own end. And Pronger should be moved up then too. He's often thought of as a mainly a physical defenseman, but he's got a great first pass.

The fact is, these young guys are great for their age, but still make more mistakes in their own end than Pronger and Lidstrom.

Edited by haroldsnepsts, 31 July 2010 - 11:01 AM.

[Crymson]

I've got an idea: let's peruse through every single publication in the nation and go nuts whenever we feel one of them is underrating a Red Wing!

[NGKEIB]

I've got an idea: let's peruse through every single publication in the nation and go nuts whenever we feel one of them is underrating a Red Wing!

But that is what Malik does...

[Crymson]

But that is what Malik does...

He presumably gets paid for it.

[wings1110]

you dont trade a player that has been with your franchise his entire career....and is a hall of famer, a 4 stanley cup champion, a gold medal winner, a conn smythe winner, one of the faces of the franchise, a 6 time norris trophy winner, an 11 time all star, one of the best defencmen ever to play the game, your captain, and a legend

[wingnut40]

This, my friends, is what happens when people take drugs.

[Swayze]

Just to be fair, Doughty does have an Olympic Gold.

and Keith has a Gold, a Cup, and a Norris.

Not trying to start s***, just saying if you're gonna compare awards like that, do it unbiased.

[Crymson]

and Keith has a Gold, a Cup, and a Norris.

Not trying to start s***, just saying if you're gonna compare awards like that, do it unbiased.

Lidstrom has an Olympic gold, a WC gold, four Cups, a Conn Smythe trophy and six Norris trophies.

On another note, do any of you remember the Pens fan back in '08 who claimed here that Ryan Whitney would dominate the Norris for the next decade?