Ryan Smyth requests trade to Edmonton

[Konnan511 1,736]

Here is a link. its a done deal as Mack stated above, Smyth for Fraser and a 7th rounder

http://www.thefourth.../edm110626.html

Highway robbery by Edmonton, too bad they'll still be in the lottery next season.

[Red Wings Addict 787]

Hall - Nugent-Hopkins - Smyth

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I like Smyth, but I think this was a good move for LA. He's getting long in the tooth and had trouble with the Kings speed. Hopefully they can put that money to good use.

Now if they could just get rid of Penner.

[e_prime 1,936]

Has he cried about it yet?

[Konnan511 1,736]

Hall - Nugent-Hopkins - Smyth

Do you think RNH is coming out of the CHL this season? i think he'll spend another season in the CHL to bulk up.

[evilzyme 769]

Do you think RNH is coming out of the CHL this season? i think he'll spend another season in the CHL to bulk up.

He should spend another season bulking up, will he actually end up spending another one? Probably not. They like to rush things in Edmonton.

[sibiriak 84]

I must be missing something. TSN article said that the Kings were willing to take just the 7th-round pick for Smyth, but the Oilers had insisted on including Fraser "to shed salary". Also, apparently the Kings were going to buy out Brule if they got him, but that fell through because you can't buy out an injured player. So basically, the Kings are willing to pay money just so the Oilers take Smyth off their hands? Why?

[Red Wings Addict 787]

Do you think RNH is coming out of the CHL this season? i think he'll spend another season in the CHL to bulk up.

To be honest I'm not exactly sure myself. With him I feel like it can go either way I think. But if he does and the Oilers send out that line then that's a decently exciting line EDM has.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Geez. This again.

Concerns over Fraser's health could void Smyth deal

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

[Travis 576]

Geez. This again.

Concerns over Fraser's health could void Smyth deal

Word is he's got an unhealed fracture that will require surgery and cost him 4 months.

@helenenothelen: Colin Fraser, player Kings acquiired in Ryan Smyth deal, has unhealed fracture/cyst and will need surgery 4 months projection. Kings angry

[mjlegend 155]

How the hell does Tambellini get away with trying to trade two injured players? Less than one per cent of the league's players would actually want to play in Edmonton, and he screws up the trade with one of the few who does.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

Sportsnet.

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

Sportsnet.

I knew this would resurface again... I don't who to blame, Edmonton for trying to do it (twice), or the Kings for not doing their homework.

Edited July 15, 2011 by CaliWingsNut

[eva unit zero 271]

I knew this would resurface again... I don't who to blame, Edmonton for trying to do it (twice), or the Kings for not doing their homework.

Lombardi is at fault. The only reason injury matters is for buyout. Now he's just pissed that he can't get the deal vetoed because he doesn't have the cap space. Fraser was injured last season, a smart GM isn't going to accept a trade for him without checking him out first.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Lombardi is at fault. The only reason injury matters is for buyout. Now he's just pissed that he can't get the deal vetoed because he doesn't have the cap space. Fraser was injured last season, a smart GM isn't going to accept a trade for him without checking him out first.

It's Lombardi's fault that Edmonton traded them a player who can't play?

Yes they should do due diligence, but it sounds like he did check him out and the Oilers assured him he was fit to play. He isn't. Oilers doctors apparently differ with Kings docs about the length of his rehab, but even with the most realistic assessment, he can't play and the Oilers said he could. How much checking out of a player can you do until you actually have the guy? At some point you have to assume the other GM wouldn't be stupid enough to try and screw you over by traded an injured player. And certainly not twice in two months.

Edmonton just continues to amaze. It's like they're still pissed at LA for the Gretzky trade or something.

Edited July 17, 2011 by haroldsnepsts

[eva unit zero 271]

It's Lombardi's fault that Edmonton traded them a player who can't play?

Yes they should do due diligence, but it sounds like he did check him out and the Oilers assured him he was fit to play. He isn't. Oilers doctors apparently differ with Kings docs about the length of his rehab, but even with the most realistic assessment, he can't play and the Oilers said he could. How much checking out of a player can you do until you actually have the guy? At some point you have to assume the other GM wouldn't be stupid enough to try and screw you over by traded an injured player. And certainly not twice in two months.

Edmonton just continues to amaze. It's like they're still pissed at LA for the Gretzky trade or something.

Say I'm in charge in LA, and I get word from my docs that Fraser is injured. I don't go ahead with the trade, regardless of whether the Oilers' docs are saying "he can play" or not.

Because ultimately it's not up to the doctors, or Edmonton's GM, whether LA takes the deal. Everyone knew he was injured last season; there were no secrets.

If I offered to sell you a house that didn't have any insulation, and I told you that it was originally built without insulation, but don't specify that there is still none there, do you buy it? Of course not. But Lombardi did.

[Guest Crymson]

It was a scummy think of the Oilers to do.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Say I'm in charge in LA, and I get word from my docs that Fraser is injured. I don't go ahead with the trade, regardless of whether the Oilers' docs are saying "he can play" or not.

Because ultimately it's not up to the doctors, or Edmonton's GM, whether LA takes the deal. Everyone knew he was injured last season; there were no secrets.

If I offered to sell you a house that didn't have any insulation, and I told you that it was originally built without insulation, but don't specify that there is still none there, do you buy it? Of course not. But Lombardi did.

As I said, Lombardi should have done his due diligence, and probably gone above and beyond normal checks considering how dishonest the Oilers have proven themselves to be only a month ago.

Of course Lombardi bears some responsibility as the GM, but you make it sound like Edmonton has no responsibility for misleading the Kings twice in two months about the health of a player. They have a tough enough time luring players to that market, but they sure don't make it easier on themselves with underhanded moves like this.

Edited July 17, 2011 by haroldsnepsts

[eva unit zero 271]

As I said, Lombardi should have done his due diligence, and probably gone above and beyond normal checks considering how dishonest the Oilers have proven themselves to be only a month ago.

Of course Lombardi bears some responsibility as the GM, but you make it sound like Edmonton has no responsibility for misleading the Kings twice in two months about the health of a player. They have a tough enough time luring players to that market, but they sure don't make it easier on themselves with underhanded moves like this.

Lombardi was upset at the initial deal because Edmonton didn't file papers stating Brule was fit to play, so he could then be bought out. Maybe Brule wasn't fit to play? Should Tambellini have falsely claimed Brule was healthy to make the trade go through instead of "here, you can have this skilled young player, but he's had a concussion recently so he might not be able to play right away."

With Fraser the Oilers medical staff gave an estimated time of when he should be able to play. The Kings medical staff then disagreed with this assessment, after the trade had been made, after Lombardi had used the cap space Smyth occupied. So what ultimately happened is that Lombardi got one player he couldn't buy out because he was injured and was upset. And then he made the second deal for a player who was supposed to be healthy by a certain time. Basically, he's now upset that his staff thinks Fraser won't be healthy in time to be bought out. So he's just going to end up waiving him anyway.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Lombardi was upset at the initial deal because Edmonton didn't file papers stating Brule was fit to play, so he could then be bought out. Maybe Brule wasn't fit to play? Should Tambellini have falsely claimed Brule was healthy to make the trade go through instead of "here, you can have this skilled young player, but he's had a concussion recently so he might not be able to play right away."

With Fraser the Oilers medical staff gave an estimated time of when he should be able to play. The Kings medical staff then disagreed with this assessment, after the trade had been made, after Lombardi had used the cap space Smyth occupied. So what ultimately happened is that Lombardi got one player he couldn't buy out because he was injured and was upset. And then he made the second deal for a player who was supposed to be healthy by a certain time. Basically, he's now upset that his staff thinks Fraser won't be healthy in time to be bought out. So he's just going to end up waiving him anyway.

That's exactly what Tambellini did with Fraser, so I'm not sure what your point is.

The Oilers told Lombardi that Fraser was days away from being able to play. Even in the most optimistic assessment of the Oilers doctors, that wasn't true.

That's Lombardi's fault? Among most GM's there's a level of professional respect and conduct, because they are all essentially in the same boat. Oiler's GMs don't seem to get that.

[sputman 1,268]

i haven't looked through this thread so maybe it's already been asked.

but has anybody ever requested they be traded to edmonton before? ever?

[eva unit zero 271]

That's exactly what Tambellini did with Fraser, so I'm not sure what your point is.

The Oilers told Lombardi that Fraser was days away from being able to play. Even in the most optimistic assessment of the Oilers doctors, that wasn't true.

That's Lombardi's fault? Among most GM's there's a level of professional respect and conduct, because they are all essentially in the same boat. Oiler's GMs don't seem to get that.

Lombardi intended to buy out Fraser. The Oilers told him that he would be healthy soon enough for that. Instead of having his docs check him out before accepting, Lombardi took the deal and went after Brad Richards. Then he failed. He signed Simon Gagne instead. He made a big trade for Mike Richards. Then his doctors told him Fraser would be out longer than initially expected. He had already used Smyth's cap space. Because of the 10% rule, he could have still asked the NHL to void the deal, and then traded Smyth to the Oilers for a healthy player, yet he didn't.

Sounds to me as if this is all in Lombardi's court.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Lombardi intended to buy out Fraser. The Oilers told him that he would be healthy soon enough for that. Instead of having his docs check him out before accepting, Lombardi took the deal and went after Brad Richards. Then he failed. He signed Simon Gagne instead. He made a big trade for Mike Richards. Then his doctors told him Fraser would be out longer than initially expected. He had already used Smyth's cap space. Because of the 10% rule, he could have still asked the NHL to void the deal, and then traded Smyth to the Oilers for a healthy player, yet he didn't.

Sounds to me as if this is all in Lombardi's court.

Exactly. So you agree that the Oilers completely lied to Lombardi regarding Fraser's health. Yet you also somehow say this is entirely Lombardi's fault?

When another GM tells you a player has been checked out by team doctors and will be ready to play in a few days, at a certain point you have to believe them. Especially in the crazy days after the free agent market starts. When a GM has so many possible deals in the works and players can get signed at any minute, time is of the essence. The market changes to quickly to lose that much time, so it would make sense to accept the word of another team's GM because it would take too long to fly the player in and have him examined by the doctors before you pull the trigger. Several of your other deals could fall apart in that time.

It's called bargaining in good faith. It's not exactly a radical notion. Almost every other GM in the league does that because they all have to deal with one another in these transactions season after season and it doesn't make sense in the long run to try and screw a team over or lie to a GM. If these underhanded tactics were regularly used by GM's, then yes, it Lombardi would be a fool not to have the player completely checked out before pulling the trigger because he should expect to be lied to. But that's not how most franchises operate.

Seriously. Your position is that the Oilers lied to Lombardi, and this is all Lombardi's fault? Sometimes I think you take a completely ridiculous position just for the sake of arguing.

Edited July 20, 2011 by haroldsnepsts

[eva unit zero 271]

Exactly. So you agree that the Oilers completely lied to Lombardi regarding Fraser's health. Yet you also somehow say this is entirely Lombardi's fault?

When another GM tells you a player has been checked out by team doctors and will be ready to play in a few days, at a certain point you have to believe them. Especially in the crazy days after the free agent market starts. When a GM has so many possible deals in the works and players can get signed at any minute, time is of the essence. The market changes to quickly to lose that much time, so it would make sense to accept the word of another team's GM because it would take too long to fly the player in and have him examined by the doctors before you pull the trigger. Several of your other deals could fall apart in that time.

It's called bargaining in good faith. It's not exactly a radical notion. Almost every other GM in the league does that because they all have to deal with one another in these transactions season after season and it doesn't make sense in the long run to try and screw a team over or lie to a GM. If these underhanded tactics were regularly used by GM's, then yes, it Lombardi would be a fool not to have the player completely checked out before pulling the trigger because he should expect to be lied to. But that's not how most franchises operate.

Seriously. Your position is that the Oilers lied to Lombardi, and this is all Lombardi's fault? Sometimes I think you take a completely ridiculous position just for the sake of arguing.

No. My position is that the Oilers doctors missed the scaphoid fracture (which often doesn't show up on x-rays and is mis-diagnosed as a sprain) and believed that Fraser would be ready to play. Lombardi was given access to the Oilers' medical reports on Fraser. It's not like they were like "we know he's injured, hehe, let's trade him" and hid that information from Lombardi. Unless that proves to be the case, in which case Tambellini's reputation as a GM is not what he should be worrying about, Lombardi is alone responsible for this. As it is, the Oilers and Kings are attempting to work out some sort of "fix" for the deal.