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Guest blueadams

Is THIS team good enough to go the distance?

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Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Cleary - Laich - Franzen

Eaves - Filpulla - Bertuzzi

McGrattan - Helm - Winchester

Lidstrom - Wisniewski

Kronwall - Stuart

Smith - Erskine

what's happened to Hudler, Abdelkader, Mursak and Kindl?? I'm not sure Holland's ever dumped 4 promising young prospects in a single off-season.

Good point. But, if we assume that Wiz is an even swap for Raffi (which a lot of people would disagree with) then we basically have the same D core that lost to San Jose + 1 inexperienced/uproven player (insert Smith/Kindl/Janik). Now, if you believe Raffi is a superior Dman to Wiz, then we are actually weaker than we were last year + 1 inexperienced/uproven player. IMO-Wings look better at D with Raffi and Salei vs. Wiz and Smith/Kindl/Janik. Now, obviously if one of these young kids comes in and plays really, really well then that's a different equation. I'd be cautiously optimistic with seeing how your proposed D-Corps play until November. But if there is any questions, I'd be looking for a trade immediately. Big risk for Kenny when there may be no solid options to make us a better team at that point/before the trade deadline.

I think that a physical player like Wisniewski is better than Rafalski against San Jose, in spite of the offensive set-back. And I'm guessing/hoping that Smith will bring much more to the table than Salei as well.

But since we're talking about it, I thought that our inability to put the puck in the net was a bigger problem for us than defense.

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I would say no with that lineup blueadams posted.

Too many injury prone players, which is what ultimately screwed us in game 7. Also, Holmstrom and Bertuzzi aren't going to get any better to be playing top 6 minutes. They're both too inconsistent and disappear for long stretches of time. Likewise, Jagr is an unproven commodity here, and Hudler is utterly useless.

I don't see a Stanley Cup with that particular lineup, unless everyone magically stays healthy throughout the playoffs and certain players somehow get younger.

In essence, you're replacing Rafalski with Wisniewski, and adding a 39 year old forward who hasn't played in the NHL for years.

Agreed.

Too many guys whom are inconsistent, or they're past their prime.

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Cleary - Laich - Franzen

unfortunately (for Washington) Laich is not center.

PS This line screams Richards! :)

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what's happened to Hudler, Abdelkader, Mursak and Kindl?? I'm not sure Holland's ever dumped 4 promising young prospects in a single off-season.

I think that a physical player like Wisniewski is better than Rafalski against San Jose, in spite of the offensive set-back. And I'm guessing/hoping that Smith will bring much more to the table than Salei as well.

But since we're talking about it, I thought that our inability to put the puck in the net was a bigger problem for us than defense.

Okay, good point. But you state our bigger problem was scoring goals ....but yet you claim we would have had a better chance against San Jose by replacing a very good/elite goal scoring dman to add a physical presence? Confusion has set in??

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what's happened to Hudler, Abdelkader, Mursak and Kindl?? I'm not sure Holland's ever dumped 4 promising young prospects in a single off-season.

Hudler and Abby are gone, while Mursak and Kindl will still play significant enough games to get more experience in the NHL.

In any case, I think my team would beat your team easily in a 7 game series. :P

unfortunately (for Washington) Laich is not center.

PS This line screams Richards! :)

Richards will cost too much money. More than Laich.

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Okay, good point. But you state our bigger problem was scoring goals ....but yet you claim we would have had a better chance against San Jose by replacing a very good/elite goal scoring dman to add a physical presence? Confusion has set in??

well...1) raffy didn't contribute much offensively in that series, 2) wiz ain't exactly a slouch when it comes to point production either, and 3) i should've stressed point production from our forwards in particular being our bigger problem.

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Babs said we need to add another top six forward, fwiw

And Holland has said our offense is fine.

We were 1 goal from advancing to the WCF. I don't think it was necessarily a personnel problem to blame for our exit this season. Every game we lost to the Sharks was a 1 goal game, we outscored them in the series overall. We were very, very close.

Assuming our team is improved upon this upcoming season, even if only slightly, why wouldn't we have a shot to win it all? The teams that were supposedly "better" than the Wings this season all had glaring vulnerabilities themselves at times. I think the Wings could have matched up against Vancouver or Boston.

If we can have even a modest year in terms of injuries, I believe our chances sky rocket. Having your leading goal-scorer out for almost the entire playoffs rarely helps chances.

So many possibilities, July 1st can't get here soon enough.

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Hudler and Abby are gone, while Mursak and Kindl will still play significant enough games to get more experience in the NHL.

In any case, I think my team would beat your team easily in a 7 game series. :P

I don't know, let me try and scramble this around..

Filppula-Datsyuk-*Jagr

Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

*Laich-Helm-Cleary

Hudler-Abdelkader-Holmstrom

Mursak

Emmerton

...incredible third line would be the group that makes the real difference in most games. Pav + Val = hot fire. + Jagr = wow. Second line is tried and true. fourth line is pretty much un-playable...but, so what. sub homer in on the PP. sub abby in on the PK. sub homer in for jagr, and abby in for bert regular strength from time to time. get huds a shift here and there. they'll get their minutes.

Kronwall-Wisniewski

Lidstrom-Smith

Stuart-Kindl

Janik

Howard

*?*

Edited by blueadams

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first off: we (at least in my case) just tease you about your line threads. its not like i want you to stop posting them, its just fun to tease cause ur so enthusiastic about them :).

simply put id say no to the lineup. d is not solid enough with a smith-ericsson pairing (would be real shaky in the playoffs) and neither likes the right side much. does jagr have 82 games in him plus the playoffs? probably not. This lineup has cup winner all over it though: Note: u could sub in Jagr for Zherdev in your case and pay a little less as well. This would be barring a trade with Fil, Kindl in a package with prospect/ picks for Burns...

FORWARDS

Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Nikolai Zherdev ($2.500m)

Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Brad Richards ($7.200m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)

Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.900m)

Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)

Drew Miller ($0.700m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

DEFENSEMEN

Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brent Burns ($3.550m)

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / James Wisniewski ($4.500m)

Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)

Doug Janik ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Brian Boucher ($0.925m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $64,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,996,211; BONUSES: $0

CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,003,789

You again with this lineup. No offense, but this isn't a video game. Holland won't be trading lots of assets (and you'd better believe that Filppula and Kindl wouldn't be nearly enough) for a defenseman who has one year left on his contract. And Zherdev is the opposite of the type of player Holland would sign; he's lazy, awful defensively, and has a bad attitude.

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Cleary - Laich - Franzen

Eaves - Filpulla - Bertuzzi

McGrattan - Helm - Winchester

Lidstrom - Wisniewski

Kronwall - Stuart

Smith - Erskine

I think you're trolling.

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I don't know, let me try and scramble this around..

Filppula-Datsyuk-*Jagr

Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

*Laich-Helm-Cleary

Hudler-Abdelkader-Holmstrom

Mursak

Emmerton

...incredible third line would be the group that makes the real difference in most games. Pav + Val = hot fire. + Jagr = wow. Second line is tried and true. fourth line is pretty much un-playable...but, so what. sub homer in on the PP. sub abby in on the PK. sub homer in for jagr, and abby in for bert regular strength from time to time. get huds a shift here and there. they'll get their minutes.

Kronwall-Wisniewski

Lidstrom-Smith

Stuart-Kindl

Janik

Howard

*?*

I didn't see Laich in your original post. And your 4th line is a waste of time. Why not put someone like Winchester on that line? Guy has shown a scoring touch before, and is a good grinding forward that will wear defenses out as a series goes on.

I think you're trolling.

Of course you do. I didn't see you making any novel ideas in this thread.

My lineup actually made some cap sense and is a rather well rounded group that will beat most of these "proposed" lineups in a playoff series.

It's got scoring, size, skill, toughness and a good defense that will clear the crease for a change.

Edited by GMRwings1983
Detroit # 1 Fan and WingZNut13 like this

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Okay, Zherdev will not be here nor should he even be considered. He is lazy, has a poor attitude, and doesn't play defense whatsoever.

Abdelkader and Mursak are not going anywhere. These are two primary cogs of our bottom 6 that should be around for many years to come. Mursak may even sneak his way up into the top 6 eventually as he is basically Helm with very good hands.

Also, if we sign Jagr, what is up with people putting Holmstrom and Jagr on the wings with Datsyuk?!? That would be horrific and would wear Dats out quickly.

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Okay, Zherdev will not be here nor should he even be considered. He is lazy, has a poor attitude, and doesn't play defense whatsoever.

Abdelkader and Mursak are not going anywhere. These are two primary cogs of our bottom 6 that should be around for many years to come. Mursak may even sneak his way up into the top 6 eventually as he is basically Helm with very good hands.

Also, if we sign Jagr, what is up with people putting Holmstrom and Jagr on the wings with Datsyuk?!? That would be horrific and would wear Dats out quickly.

how is jagr any different? other than the fact that hes 39... which will only increase his laziness. i think a guy like zherdev would be a good project. potential is definitely there.

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how is jagr any different? other than the fact that hes 39... which will only increase his laziness. i think a guy like zherdev would be a good project. potential is definitely there.

What's different is that Jagr has proven himself to be consistent and puts up numbers. You put him on a line with Datsyuk and any number of other players (not including Holmstrom) and that line's defense shores itself up. I truly believe there is a lot of misinformation going around regarding Jagr's attitude as i've seen a few past teammates talk about how good of a guy he is to play with and that he's a competitor.

We commit to Jagr for one season, or potentially commit to Zherdev for more than one. I certainly like the risk of a one season waiver over multi-year. If Zherdev cannot turn himself around on a team like Philly and the talent they have up front, what makes you think he can suddenly do it here? Zherdev flat out takes games off, Jagr doesn't.

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how is jagr any different? other than the fact that hes 39... which will only increase his laziness. i think a guy like zherdev would be a good project. potential is definitely there.

Any player in this NHL cap world deemed with the term "project" usually concedes that you have no better options. May work for the Islanders...but not the Red Wings. Our "projects" happen in Grand Rapids.

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Babs said we need to add another top six forward, fwiw

False, he say he'd like to add another top six forward, he never said we needed one. As stated a million times, every coach will say they'd like to add a top six forward and top 4 DMan. Holland has stated that their top 9 is pretty much set. No coach or GM will say that their team isn't going to add anyone, that breed complacency throughout the team.

Which will make a team work harder? "Everyone's job is safe and no additions need to be made" or "If we need to add a piece here or there, we're going to do it, we're always looking to improve."? Exactly.

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I didn't see Laich in your original post. And your 4th line is a waste of time. Why not put someone like Winchester on that line? Guy has shown a scoring touch before, and is a good grinding forward that will wear defenses out as a series goes on.

Of course you do. I didn't see you making any novel ideas in this thread.

#1) go for it, if you can trade Hudler.

#2) +1 on the 'novel' ideas comment lol.

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Holmstrom-Datsyuk-*Jagr

Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Hudler-Filppula-Cleary

Abdelkader-Helm-Mursak/Eaves/Miller

Emmerton

Lidstrom-*Wisniewski

Kronwall-Stuart

Smith-Ericsson

Kindl

Janik

Howard

?

First of all, don't give me any lines thread crap. If you don't like my posts, don't click them. No one's putting a gun to your head and forcing you to do so. I like lines threads. Many others like lines threads as well. We're members of this forum. We have a right to discuss them. Unless you're a moderator, and unless new anti-line thread legislation has been passed...shut up and move on, or participate.

Second of all, acquisitions (Jagr and Wisniewski). Babcock said that we need to add a Rafalski replacement and a top six forward (and that the rest can be taken care of internally). These are the only rumors of mutual interest that I've even heard of with any real legs (and Wisniewski has really just been more of a process of elimination). So those are the only acquisitions I'm including. Don't give me a bunch of crap about it, unless you've got something else with legs.

Third of all, internal moves (resignings/promotions). I've heard that we might be aiming to keep 13 forwards and 8 defensemen. I've also heard - time and time again - that we're "counting" on Brendan Smith to make the roster. I've also heard - time and time again - that we're trying to resign both Eaves and Miller.

...If we're going to keep 8 defensemen...1) Lidstrom, 2) *FA/Wisniewski*, 3) Kronwall, 4) Stuart, 5) Kindl, 6) Smith, 7) Janik, 8) ?. It seems like we're really trying to keep Ericsson. We made him a multi-year offer during the season. Then we increased it recently. I'd be very surprised if we let him go. So I'm writing him in.

...If we're going to keep 13 forwards...1) Datsyuk, 2) Zetterberg, 3) Franzen, 4) Filppula, 5) Hudler, 6) Cleary, 7) Bertuzzi, 8) Holmstrom, 9) Helm, 10) Abdelkader, 11) Mursak, 12) Emmerton, 13) *FA/Jagr. If we're going to sign a top six forward, and we want to keep Eaves and/or Miller, someone (like Hudler and/or Emmerton) is going to need to be traded or released.

The roster I posted above is my best guess. That best guess is based on the best speculation available. If that's debatable...go ahead and debate it. But I don't think it is. And the real question we should be asking anyways is "IS THIS TEAM GOING TO BE GOOD ENOUGH TO GO THE DISTANCE?"

My opinion, I don't know. Do Wisniewski>Rafalski, Jagr>Modano and Smith>Salei make a big enough difference?? I tend to lean towards no. I still think that scoring will be an issue. I think that a big trade or acquisition of some sort is still needed.

That's like asking the sun not to shine.

Anyway, I think I'm more excited about the coaching lineup than the changes to the roster. I expect the team to take the ice in October to be quite different from the team of the past few years, regardless of who makes the team and who doesn't.

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CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS

Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Jaromir Jagr ($2.000m)

Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Brad Richards ($7.200m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)

Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.850m)

Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)

Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)

Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / James Wisniewski ($4.500m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Steve Montador ($2.000m)

Doug Janik ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Brian Boucher ($0.925m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $64,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,204,544; BONUSES: $0

CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $795,456

Edited by dirtydangles

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This team isnt even built yet :lol: Start this thread after training camp when the teams built and I'll get back to ya

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CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS

Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Nikolai Zherdev ($2.000m)

Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Brad Richards ($7.200m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)

Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.850m)

Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)

Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)

Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / James Wisniewski ($4.500m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Anton Babchuk ($2.000m)

Doug Janik ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Brian Boucher ($0.925m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $64,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,204,544; BONUSES: $0

CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $795,456

Nikolai Zherdev or Jaromir Jagr for $2.000m thumbup.gif

I also see the Wings offering Richards $7.45 million (what Hossa got)

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This team isnt even built yet :lol: Start this thread after training camp when the teams built and I'll get back to ya

He's going to make a line thread after every rumor and after the draft, and before the draft. After every signing, before training camp, during training camp, after training camp. Pre season, pre-pre season, 1st game of the season, 2nd game of the season, after the first win, after the first loss, after the first SOL, OTL, SOW. After every injury, call-up, demotion. After every new coach signing as well. Then three or four "just for kicks and giggles".

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He's going to make a line thread after every rumor and after the draft, and before the draft. After every signing, before training camp, during training camp, after training camp. Pre season, pre-pre season, 1st game of the season, 2nd game of the season, after the first win, after the first loss, after the first SOL, OTL, SOW. After every injury, call-up, demotion. After every new coach signing as well. Then three or four "just for kicks and giggles".

Heh heh heh...

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Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Franzen

Bertuzzi-Arnott-Cleary

Eaves-Filppula-Holmstrom

Abdelkader-Helm-Winchester

Mursak/Miller

Lidstrom-Stuart

Kronwall-Wisniewski

Peckham-Ericsson/Kindl

Smith

Howard

Boucher

Edited by Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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How about this?

Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)

Johan Franzen ($3.954m) / Tim Connolly ($3.000m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m)

Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.000m)

Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / James Wisniewski ($4.500m)

Joni Pitkanen ($5.000m) / Steve Montador ($1.750m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($0.550m)

CAP SPACE: $107,956

Yes, it gets kind of tight. If you're concerned about that, replace Montador with Janik and save $1.2m

I think this roster is a huge improvement over last year; although there's no Raffi, Stuart is now the #5 defenseman, with Wisniewski, Pitkanen, and Montador coming in. Both the PP and PK have defensemen skilled in those areas; Lids/Kronner for both, Pitkanen/Wiz on PP, and Stu/Monty for PK. Connolly is the big improvement at forward, effectively taking Modano's spot. The Wings get a legit two-way center capable of playing on a top line to replace a guy who played his way out of the lineupe last year. Mursak replaces Draper, and brings a lot of the same skills but doesn't have the faceoff talents, and Emmerton takes Miller's spot, providing a speedy young skilled two-way forward at-the-ready for an injury replacement or to rest a player for a game or two.

Wisniewski brings a lot of Rafalski's similar skills, plus the RH shot, and is not far below that level, so we'll call that even. Again with Mursak. Emmerton is a scratch, so we don't need to think about that for now. Montador is an improvement over Salei. Pitkanen is so far above Ericsson that he needs a shovel to see him. Again for Connolly against Modano.

And finally, let's take a look at the lines I've posted:

Huds/Zetterberg/Cleary - Incredible performance while together.

Flip/Dats/Holmstrom - See A.

Franzen/Connolly/Bertuzzi - This would be the top line on most teams, and admittedly costs as much as some of them.

Mursak/Helm/Eaves - If Mursak fits in as well as Draper did, this will be one of the best checking lines in the league for a while... unless one of them moves to a scoring line, or the line as a whole becomes a scoring line.

Kronwall/Stuart - Kronner is making the transition from "very good" to "excellent", and Stuart can't have a more atrocious season than he did last year.

Lidstrom/Wisniewski - Lids probably won't be as good, but Wiz will provide the kind of element of physical play we haven't seen in a regular partner for Nick since Brad McCrimmon.

Pitkanen/Montador - Would be a solid second pairing on most teams; Pitkanen would be first pair on just about any team in the league and Montador top four on many.

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