TLGTrico 627 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 15 hours ago, krsmith17 said: Jesus... It was a 2nd in 2019 AND a 3rd in 2020 for Braun... 32 years old. $3.8M for one season... Daley is 35 years old. If we eat half his contract, $1,583,333 for one season... We should be able to get a decent pick, if that's the going rate... The Sharks got the exact same return for Braun that they gave us for Nyquist. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 7 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said: We’re so headed for another lockout f*** kevin Hayes 7 years 50 mill .... absolutely f***en ridiculous One more time, all together now. Flyers are dumb! 1 2 F.Michael, krsmith17 and nyqvististhefuture reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 Also this 1 xault reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, LeftWinger said: looks like we better trade all contracts that are up at the TDL yikes! AA and Mantha are gonna cost $8M each! Chuck Fletcher massively overpaying Kevin Hayes won't make Yzerman follow suit. There's one significant difference as well that most people often overlook. Hayes was a UFA. Mantha, Athanasiou and Bertuzzi are all RFA's. I wouldn't be surprised if all three put up somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 goals, 30 assists, give or take, and none will get close to $8M or even $7M. I can see all three being re-signed for less than what Larkin re-signed for last summer. Mantha being the closest at around $5.75M, Athanasiou slightly less at around $5.25M and Bertuzzi at around $4.5M. Edited June 19, 2019 by krsmith17 2 F.Michael and amato reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 3,014 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 1 hour ago, krsmith17 said: Chuck Fletcher massively overpaying Kevin Hayes won't make Yzerman follow suit. There's one significant difference as well that most people often overlook. Hayes was a UFA. Mantha, Athanasiou and Bertuzzi are all RFA's. I wouldn't be surprised if all three put up somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 goals, 30 assists, give or take, and none will get close to $8M or even $7M. I can see all three being re-signed for less than what Larkin re-signed for last summer. Mantha being the closest at around $5.75M, Athanasiou slightly less at around $5.25M and Bertuzzi at around $4.5M. I shall file this quote in my @krsmith17 "Positive Attitude" folder along side: Quote "we're winning the draft lottery (v. 2018 + 2019)" Quote "Trouba will sign with the Wings next year' and Quote "Veleno's going to be a 2C in the NHL in a year". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said: I shall file this quote in my @krsmith17 "Positive Attitude" folder along side: If you're going to "quote" me, maybe you should actually quote me... By the way... "We will win the draft lottery in 2020". "Trouba will sign with the Wings next summer". I don't think I've ever said that Veleno will be our 2C next year, but... "Veleno will be our 2C in the not too distant future". 1 e_prime reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 1 hour ago, krsmith17 said: Chuck Fletcher massively overpaying Kevin Hayes won't make Yzerman follow suit. There's one significant difference as well that most people often overlook. Hayes was a UFA. Mantha, Athanasiou and Bertuzzi are all RFA's. I wouldn't be surprised if all three put up somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 goals, 30 assists, give or take, and none will get close to $8M or even $7M. I can see all three being re-signed for less than what Larkin re-signed for last summer. Mantha being the closest at around $5.75M, Athanasiou slightly less at around $5.25M and Bertuzzi at around $4.5M. Ya I don’t see that happening at all , look what happened to mackinnon? Scheifele? Players won’t give a s*** what Larkin got , this is the good old days where players didn’t make more than lidstrom ... i think we’d value mantha more and if he pops 30-35 I can see us giving him close to a Hayes deal and trading AA , don’t think yzerman will give both that much with a bunch of kids coming who we might have to give big money in 3-5 years as well so I’ve already prepared myself to see AA leaving whenever that is bertuzzi I’d most definetly give him 4-4.5 x6 today Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wings3:16 318 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 For what it's worth...Trouba: 'I can see myself being in New York for a long time' 1 xault reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, Wings3:16 said: For what it's worth...Trouba: 'I can see myself being in New York for a long time' yeah, it's pretty clear that he got to go where he wanted. pretty crazy for an RFA but good for him. Man, if only he had a chance to sign in san jose.. oh wait. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wings3:16 318 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, amato said: yeah, it's pretty clear that he got to go where he wanted. pretty crazy for an RFA but good for him. Man, if only he had a chance to sign in san jose.. oh wait. Ahhh it feels so good to see the Leafs squirm! hahah 4 amato, F.Michael, krsmith17 and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said: Ya I don’t see that happening at all , look what happened to mackinnon? Scheifele? Players won’t give a s*** what Larkin got , this is the good old days where players didn’t make more than lidstrom ... i think we’d value mantha more and if he pops 30-35 I can see us giving him close to a Hayes deal and trading AA , don’t think yzerman will give both that much with a bunch of kids coming who we might have to give big money in 3-5 years as well so I’ve already prepared myself to see AA leaving whenever that is bertuzzi I’d most definetly give him 4-4.5 x6 today You don't see what happening at all? Mantha getting under $6M? I'll take that bet. What about MacKinnon and Scheifele? You can't be comparing Mantha and Athanasiou to those two elite players... None of our pending RFA's will get close to what similar UFA's are getting (overpaid or not). RFA ≠ UFA. Why is it so difficult for people to understand this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 here's another fun one 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: You don't see what happening at all? Mantha getting under $6M? I'll take that bet. What about MacKinnon and Scheifele? You can't be comparing Mantha and Athanasiou to those two elite players... None of our pending RFA's will get close to what similar UFA's are getting (overpaid or not). RFA ≠ UFA. Why is it so difficult for people to understand this? Not if mantha gets 30-35 goals , why would he? If anything he’ll sign a shorter deal that takes him to ufa and bank on himself , both he AA did that and I don’t see them signing for less than what they think their value is I’m not comparing them to those guys I’m saying look at them now , both getting shafted and getting paid like half of what their value is , you think mantha and AA care that Larkin is making 6 per so they can’t make more money? Won’t work like that man as much as we’d love then to have lower cap hits Kyle Conner had back to back 30 goal seasons and is askin for the moon , I’d just be preparing myself mentally if I were you for the scenario to happen cause there’s a good chance they’ll get more Money than your expecting , this isn’t the good old days man rfa’s are getting paid now just look around 16 minutes ago, amato said: yeah, it's pretty clear that he got to go where he wanted. pretty crazy for an RFA but good for him. Man, if only he had a chance to sign in san jose.. oh wait. That’s what there asking now but I don’t see it happening , probably drop to a 2nd which I’d take back in a heartbeat .... it’s too bad mr analytics genius doogie howser m.d is already going to have to break his word to nylander and ship his ass out of town lmao 1 amato reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said: Not if mantha gets 30-35 goals , why would he? If anything he’ll sign a shorter deal that takes him to ufa and bank on himself , both he AA did that and I don’t see them signing for less than what they think their value is I’m not comparing them to those guys I’m saying look at them now , both getting shafted and getting paid like half of what their value is , you think mantha and AA care that Larkin is making 6 per so they can’t make more money? Won’t work like that man as much as we’d love then to have lower cap hits Kyle Conner had back to back 30 goal seasons and is askin for the moon , I’d just be preparing myself mentally if I were you for the scenario to happen cause there’s a good chance they’ll get more Money than your expecting , this isn’t the good old days man rfa’s are getting paid now just look around Why would he? Because he's an RFA and has limited negotiating rights... No, they won't sign for less than what their value is. Their value is right around what I'm suggesting... MacKinnon and Scheifele are not getting "shafted". They signed great, team friendly deals (market value at the time) as RFA's three years ago. Sakic and Cheveldayoff did a great job. Yzerman will do the same with Mantha and co. You keep bringing up how they don't care about what Larkin is making. Neither do I. I'm not suggesting they will sign south of $6M just because Larkin is making $6.1M. I just don't see them getting much more than that as RFA's. Connor had back to back 30+ goal seasons as a 20-22 year old. BIG difference. And I still doubt he'll get anything close to what he's "asking", or what you're expecting... Look around? Okay, let's do that... Teuvo Teravainen has put up 35, 42, 64, and 76 points the past 4 seasons. He's 24 years old and just signed a 5 year, $5.4M AAV contract as an RFA. Jake Guentzel has put up 33, 48, and 76 points in the past 3 seasons. He's 24 years old and just signed a 5 year, $6M AAV contract as an RFA. You're expecting Mantha to put up 30-35 goals, 60-65 points? Well that will put him slightly below the two mentioned above. I'll bet the bank that none of Mantha, Athanasiou or Bertuzzi sign above $6M next offseason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Why would he? Because he's an RFA and has limited negotiating rights... No, they won't sign for less than what their value is. Their value is right around what I'm suggesting... MacKinnon and Scheifele are not getting "shafted". They signed great, team friendly deals (market value at the time) as RFA's three years ago. Sakic and Cheveldayoff did a great job. Yzerman will do the same with Mantha and co. You keep bringing up how they don't care about what Larkin is making. Neither do I. I'm not suggesting they will sign south of $6M just because Larkin is making $6.1M. I just don't see them getting much more than that as RFA's. Connor had back to back 30+ goal seasons as a 20-22 year old. BIG difference. And I still doubt he'll get anything close to what he's "asking", or what you're expecting... Look around? Okay, let's do that... Teuvo Teravainen has put up 35, 42, 64, and 76 points the past 4 seasons. He's 24 years old and just signed a 5 year, $5.4M AAV contract as an RFA. Jake Guentzel has put up 33, 48, and 76 points in the past 3 seasons. He's 24 years old and just signed a 5 year, $6M AAV contract as an RFA. You're expecting Mantha to put up 30-35 goals, 60-65 points? Well that will put him slightly below the two mentioned above. I'll bet the bank that none of Mantha, Athanasiou or Bertuzzi sign above $6M next offseason. Well you can say the same thing about marner,tkachuk,nylander ....their value is what YOUR suggesting doesn’t means that’s what they think especially if athanasiou gets 35 and 75 pts and mantha gets 40 and 85 pts , If something like that occurs they won’t say cool 5.5 x 7 yrs please regardless of your they got no rights sorry man but mackinnon and scheifele are getting shafted ...sakic did a good job at the time , the stars also were being paid less $ , ask them today if they regret signing that deal and they’ll all say yes, you don’t think players see that? Trust me they won’t sign longterm deals if they don’t like the numbers we’ll see about Connor but he won’t be getting less than a Hayes deal at this point not everyone will be a teravainen or guentzel, didn’t we already have trouble with AA with a deal? That should tell you it won’t be an easy negotiation and mantha banked on himself so he believes in his abilities as he should and I’m telling you 5x6 won’t get it done , if anything it’ll be 5x2 and adios via free agency I’m not expecting mantha to get 65+ but what if ? If he explodes , and we all been waiting for it cause between you and I if he gets his s*** together he can be a 30-40 goal scorer on a yearly basis it won’t come cheap , he goes bezerk this year and gets 70-80 pts he won’t say 7 yrs x6 , just won’t happen as much as we all want it I’ll bet you any internet money if they get big years they’ll get paid minus bertuzzi , most I’d give him is 4.5 x6 and I’d do it right now while he’s still young Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
F.Michael 4,590 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 3 hours ago, krsmith17 said: Chuck Fletcher massively overpaying Kevin Hayes won't make Yzerman follow suit. There's one significant difference as well that most people often overlook. Hayes was a UFA. Mantha, Athanasiou and Bertuzzi are all RFA's. I wouldn't be surprised if all three put up somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 goals, 30 assists, give or take, and none will get close to $8M or even $7M. I can see all three being re-signed for less than what Larkin re-signed for last summer. Mantha being the closest at around $5.75M, Athanasiou slightly less at around $5.25M and Bertuzzi at around $4.5M. Agreed. Yzerman won’t put up with any BS...Unless 1 of the guys surprises us with 40 plus goals, and 80 sumthin pts - they’ll most likely re-sign in the $4 to $5.75 million range. Larkin will be made a ‘cappo’, and his contract will most likely be setting a standard. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 3,014 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 2 hours ago, krsmith17 said: If you're going to "quote" me, maybe you should actually quote me... By the way... "We will win the draft lottery in 2020". "Trouba will sign with the Wings next summer". I don't think I've ever said that Veleno will be our 2C next year, but... "Veleno will be our 2C in the not too distant future". You said you want to trade Nielsen in 20-21 and that Veleno should be able to take over by then. Must I go back and sift through the nonsense to get the actual quote? Can I not just paraphrase like I did above (which you seem to inexplicably object to)? By the way, I can do it too.... "Zack Werenski will be a Wing in 2025" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 33 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said: Well you can say the same thing about marner,tkachuk,nylander ....their value is what YOUR suggesting doesn’t means that’s what they think especially if athanasiou gets 35 and 75 pts and mantha gets 40 and 85 pts , If something like that occurs they won’t say cool 5.5 x 7 yrs please regardless of your they got no rights sorry man but mackinnon and scheifele are getting shafted ...sakic did a good job at the time , the stars also were being paid less $ , ask them today if they regret signing that deal and they’ll all say yes, you don’t think players see that? Trust me they won’t sign longterm deals if they don’t like the numbers we’ll see about Connor but he won’t be getting less than a Hayes deal at this point not everyone will be a teravainen or guentzel, didn’t we already have trouble with AA with a deal? That should tell you it won’t be an easy negotiation and mantha banked on himself so he believes in his abilities as he should and I’m telling you 5x6 won’t get it done , if anything it’ll be 5x2 and adios via free agency I’m not expecting mantha to get 65+ but what if ? If he explodes , and we all been waiting for it cause between you and I if he gets his s*** together he can be a 30-40 goal scorer on a yearly basis it won’t come cheap , he goes bezerk this year and gets 70-80 pts he won’t say 7 yrs x6 , just won’t happen as much as we all want it I’ll bet you any internet money if they get big years they’ll get paid minus bertuzzi , most I’d give him is 4.5 x6 and I’d do it right now while he’s still young So now you're comparing Mantha and Athanasiou to Marner and Tkachuk? Marner and Tkachuk just put up 94 and 77 points respectively as 21 year olds... Nylander was coming off back-to-back 61 point seasons as a 22 year old when he signed his contract, and most of the hockey world thought he was overpaid at the time. Mantha and Athanasiou just had career years, putting up 48 and 54 points respectively as 24 year olds... Again, BIG difference... Connor might get in the neighborhood of what Hayes just received, but I wouldn't bet on it. And even if he does, again, it's apples and oranges if you're trying to compare what Connor will get to what Mantha and Athanasiou will get. You really think Mantha and Athanasiou are going to put up 75-85 points this season? I mean, if that's your bar for the two of them, then sure, they probably will get paid more than $6M. However, that's highly unlikely... IF they both put up HUGE numbers and surpass everyone's expectations, I'll agree that they'll get paid above the $6M that I suggested. I still say they get under $6M... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: You said you want to trade Nielsen in 20-21 and that Veleno should be able to take over by then. Nielsen is our 3C, so yes Veleno could and likely will take over the 3C hole in 2020-21. And I think he could become our 2C as early as next season. You think that's unreasonable? 6 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: By the way, I can do it too.... "Zack Werenski will be a Wing in 2025" Great! What's the issue here? You obviously know, or at least you should, when I make these "guarantees", they're made tongue in cheek. I don't know about you, but I prefer positive vibes regarding the Red Wings, rather than the same old negative bulls*** a lot of users spew here on a daily basis... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 3,014 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 Just now, krsmith17 said: Nielsen is our 3C, so yes Veleno could and likely will take over the 3C hole in 2020-21. And I think he could become our 2C as early as next season. You think that's unreasonable? Great! What's the issue here? You obviously know, or at least you should, when I make these "guarantees", they're made tongue in cheek. I don't know about you, but I prefer positive vibes regarding the Red Wings, rather than the same old negative bulls*** a lot of users spew here on a daily basis... I was being T-in-C too until you challenged me to actually quote you. That hurt my feelings. Who is our 2C then? I was under the understanding that it was Nielsen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: So now you're comparing Mantha and Athanasiou to Marner and Tkachuk? Marner and Tkachuk just put up 94 and 77 points respectively as 21 year olds... Nylander was coming off back-to-back 61 point seasons as a 22 year old when he signed his contract, and most of the hockey world thought he was overpaid at the time. Mantha and Athanasiou just had career years, putting up 48 and 54 points respectively as 24 year olds... Again, BIG difference... Connor might get in the neighborhood of what Hayes just received, but I wouldn't bet on it. And even if he does, again, it's apples and oranges if you're trying to compare what Connor will get to what Mantha and Athanasiou will get. You really think Mantha and Athanasiou are going to put up 75-85 points this season? I mean, if that's your bar for the two of them, then sure, they probably will get paid more than $6M. However, that's highly unlikely... IF they both put up HUGE numbers and surpass everyone's expectations, I'll agree that they'll get paid above the $6M that I suggested. I still say they get under $6M... 5,5 on a longterm deal for both is not a sure thing , doesn’t matter that they are 2 years older they won’t sign a long term deal with a cap number we like if they think they might make more money by taking a 2-3 year deal then and going the ufa route I didn’t say they would , I’m just giving an example .... Larkin got what close 75? So I wouldn’t say it’s 0% if mantha stays healthy and gets his s*** together that he couldn’t get close to it being on the top line and 1st ppl unit and if he does I can’t imagine him signing 7-8 yrs to those numbers well whatever the case happens I still think AA gets moved at some point and mantha will stick around , we’ll see what happens Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: Who is our 2C then? I was under the understanding that it was Nielsen. Nielsen was our 3C for the latter part of last season. Athanasiou was our 2C. I think it will start that way this coming season as well. Until Veleno proves to be ready that is... 1 F.Michael reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 3,014 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 1 minute ago, krsmith17 said: Nielsen was our 3C for the latter part of last season. Athanasiou was our 2C. I think it will start that way this coming season as well. Until Veleno proves to be ready that is... Then you may be right 2 hours ago, krsmith17 said: "We will win the draft lottery in 2020". 1 F.Michael reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said: 5,5 on a longterm deal for both is not a sure thing , doesn’t matter that they are 2 years older they won’t sign a long term deal with a cap number we like if they think they might make more money by taking a 2-3 year deal then and going the ufa route I didn’t say they would , I’m just giving an example .... Larkin got what close 75? So I wouldn’t say it’s 0% if mantha stays healthy and gets his s*** together that he couldn’t get close to it being on the top line and 1st ppl unit and if he does I can’t imagine him signing 7-8 yrs to those numbers well whatever the case happens I still think AA gets moved at some point and mantha will stick around , we’ll see what happens It absolutely does matter that they're two years older... They won't sign a long-term deal? What's your point? I didn't say anything about term. I said both will sign for under $6M. I personally think they will lock them up for at least 4-5 years at that hit though. A very poor example that fits your argument... I'm as high on Mantha as anyone, but I don't think he will put up 75-85 points. I think he could on a more talented team. On this team, he could possibly reach 75 if literally everything goes right, but even then, probably not... 2 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: Then you may be right Why? Athanasiou >>> Nielsen, and it's not even close... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
F.Michael 4,590 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Wings3:16 said: Ahhh it feels so good to see the Leafs squirm! hahah Like I’ve said many times - Leafs aren’t gonna win the Cup anytime soon...I’m certain we’ll win before they do. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
