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Hockeytown0001

1/23 GDT : Blues 1 at Red Wings 3

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Some more wise guy talk from Franzen:

"We have to thank the guy who went after Stuie," Franzen said. "It was a good, clean hit, and he decided he wanted to take an instigator. So, thank him, and score a goal."

hooon likes this

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I'm not. I wish they comeback to suck again cos Blues fans are pathetic with their whining. They're convinced that Stuart's hit is illegal hit to the head.

Ever been here after a Wings loss? Or better yet: ever listened to yourself?

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You act like this is the first time ever that a referee has missed a call during a game.

It happens. Suck it up and take your lumps. Stop coming here with excuses and instigating conversations about the officiating when you acknowledge that the Wings were the better team in the match. It comes off as petty.

I agree, but in all honesty, I don't think there was a call to be missed. cprice says that it was textbook interference but it really wasn't. It would have been interference if Helm knocked the guy down, they went after the puck, but it was an even battle for the puck where Helm hit him as they were going for the puck. If the puck weren't right in the feet of the players and was maybe 3-4 feet away, sure it could have been considered interference. No matter what, the Blues lost their cool and took a dumbass roughing penalty that cost them possibly getting a point in OT. Even on the ensuing PP if Halak wasn't trying to Halak and Whack Holmstrom into the stands, he would've been ready and in position to stop Kronwall's shot. Blues lose their cool and lose to Detroit....again...

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Overall Detroit was the better team tonight. They deserved to win.

With that said...I had some issues with a couple things.

Detroit's two power play goals probably shouldn't have happened...I'll explain.

1) I don't think Stewart should have gotten an instigator penalty. Yes, he approached Stuart and wanted to fight...that's obvious...but Stuart dropped his gloves first. Stuart was a willing participant. Stewart didn't drop his gloves and jump on Stuart. I disagreed with that call. You see fights start all of the time where one guy goes over to another guy and gives him a shot and says let's go, and the other guy agrees and the gloves come off. That's the way I saw this...Stewart just went a long way to fight Stuart.

2) Helm's hit on Pietrangelo late in the 3rd was textbook interference. Petro was skating for the puck and he seemed to be a good 5 or 6 feet from the puck, hadn't touched it yet, and Helm destroys him. If Petro would have had the puck, it would have been a great hit...but the only problem was he didn't have the puck. Assuming Carlo still retaliates, it should have been 2 minutes on Helm and 2 minutes on Carlo. It should have been 4 on 4 with 3 1/2 minutes left instead of a Detroit PP.

My first point is debatable. I'm sure you can make a case that Stewart should have gotten the instigator and argue that...we could debate that all day since it comes down to rule interpretation. But I don't see the 2nd point being debatable at all. It's clearly interference on Helm, and just not called.

Congrats on the win. Like I said, Detroit was the better team in this game.

Maybe we can even up the season series on the next game in St. Louis...and hopefully we beat Pittsburgh tomorrow to get right back to within 1 pt. of the Wings.

:hysterical:

This is funny stuff... It was textbook instigating AND it was nowhere near interference. The puck was not 5 feet away from the players, it was directly behind the net, exactly where they were. You are just looking for excuses to why you Blues lost their cool and lost the game. If every player in the league that saw their teammate get hit LEGALLY and felt the need to retaliate just because the guy got knocked down didn't do so, then we wouldn't have these roughing penalties. Legal hit, got embarrassed then his teammate lost his cool. This is hockey, not tiddly-winks.

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Really? We've been to the playoffs 21 straight years I believe? Won 4 cups during that span and made the finals 5 times. What the f*** have they done? I'll tell you what they did do, they watched Pronger miss a hit on Stevie Y and separate his shoulder in the process. They watched Stevie Y score in double ot of game 7.

/Endrant

Wings have been to the finals six times in that time span - 1995, 1997, 1998, 2002, 2008 and 2009.

Yes, you were right!

If this link works, I believe this is Howard/Crosby (03/22/10)

Thanks for posting that clip. I was deployed then and never seen it before. If I read about it, I forgot. Anyway, Jimmy is the man.

I could say something negative about Crosby, but I'll let it go.

hooon likes this

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Oh, so he was only swinging at Howard, but may not have made contact. Well, if he's only TRYING to punch the goalie then that makes everything OK!

I didn't say it was ok. I just said he didn't sucker punch Howard.

Settle down. ;)

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On the radio broadcast of the game on KMOX, colour commentator and Blues "legend" Kelly Chase sounded as if they were going to get the paddles and yell "clear" following the Stuart-Stewart incident. He hollered "joke" so many times it sounded like a Lindy Ruff press conference.

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You act like this is the first time ever that a referee has missed a call during a game.

It happens. Suck it up and take your lumps. Stop coming here with excuses and instigating conversations about the officiating when you acknowledge that the Wings were the better team in the match. It comes off as petty.

Oh, I'm sorry. Can we not discuss the game in the game day thread?

Just calling them as I see them my friend.

Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way.

And it's a significant thing to bring up, since both instances I am referring to led to Red Wing power play goals. It directly effected the outcome of the game. So, yes, I'm annoyed by it...you guys would be if it were the other way around. I've seen plenty of bitching in here about the reffing over the years.

If neither call or non-call led to anything on the scoreboard, it wouldn't be as much of an issue...but, unfortunately, that wasn't the case.

But yes, as I said, the Red Wings were the better team overall in the game. The Blues owned the 1st and the Wings took the 2nd and 3rd periods. The Blues got less and less sustained pressure as the game went on. I'm surprised it was only a 2-1 game with a few minutes to go in the game.

Goaltending was strong again, for both teams.

And this game was a bit rougher than most Blues-Wings games. Kind of a throwback of sorts. Fun to watch anyway.

jfranzen likes this

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Well then whichever Blue it was that knocked Holmstrom's stick out of his hand's in the 2nd should have been given a slashing penalty, it gets called 9 outta 10 times! So now i disagree with the officiating too...

I only saw the replay of that once...and yes, it looked like to me like it should have been a penalty.

Point is you could nitpick every minute of the game if you wanted too,

Isn't that what discussion forums are for? Talking about the details of the game?

and I don't think the interference was big enough travesty to make a good argument out of. They never showed the replay of Helms hit, so i couldn't say otherwise, but I disagree with your disagreeing. Only because I see your post as a way to try and have us justify an excuse for why wings won, when there clearly isn't one.

Ummm...the power play the Wings got from that whole series of events led to their 3rd goal. Huge goal in the game. It most certainly was a big enough travesty to make an argument out of. It's the biggest gripe I have in the game. Probably should have been mathing minors for interference and roughing... and a 4 on 4 as result, not a Wings power play.

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To all those critical of Babs end-of-game line selection, there was an icing call late in the game bringing a faceoff in our end with no chance to make a line change. 1st in the NHL; I think the coach is doing ok-certainly not a moron.

Edited by spork

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If anyone wants specific plays from the game, let me know and I'll try to have them up on YT by tonight.

hooon likes this

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I'm not. I wish they comeback to suck again cos Blues fans are pathetic with their whining. They're convinced that Stuart's hit is illegal hit to the head.

Where are you reading that? stltoday.com? That place is a mess of idiocy.

It's best not to read that place.

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To all those critical of Babs end-of-game line selection, there was an icing call late in the game bringing a faceoff in our end with no chance to make a line change. 1st in the NHL; I think the coach is doing ok-certainly not a moron.

:lol:

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Oh, I'm sorry. Can we not discuss the game in the game day thread?

Just calling them as I see them my friend.

Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way.

And it's a significant thing to bring up, since both instances I am referring to led to Red Wing power play goals. It directly effected the outcome of the game. So, yes, I'm annoyed by it...you guys would be if it were the other way around. I've seen plenty of bitching in here about the reffing over the years.

If neither call or non-call led to anything on the scoreboard, it wouldn't be as much of an issue...but, unfortunately, that wasn't the case.

But yes, as I said, the Red Wings were the better team overall in the game. The Blues owned the 1st and the Wings took the 2nd and 3rd periods. The Blues got less and less sustained pressure as the game went on. I'm surprised it was only a 2-1 game with a few minutes to go in the game.

Goaltending was strong again, for both teams.

And this game was a bit rougher than most Blues-Wings games. Kind of a throwback of sorts. Fun to watch anyway.

There is a simple thing to remember about the reffing in a game.

If your team wins, the reffing was passable or bad in some instances, but no one ******* much.

If your team loses, the reffing was horrible and everyone *******.

There are more gameday threads about the reffing after a loss than after a win. By complaining about the two instances you pointed out, you would fall into category number two. This is not a bad thing though as many people here ***** about the reffing after a loss. If the roles were flipped, many people would ***** about the same things you complained about.

Overall though, it was a solid game with solid goaltending. It wasn't like St. Louis didn't have their chances to score goals and win that game.

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cprice says that it was textbook interference but it really wasn't. It would have been interference if Helm knocked the guy down, they went after the puck, but it was an even battle for the puck where Helm hit him as they were going for the puck. If the puck weren't right in the feet of the players and was maybe 3-4 feet away, sure it could have been considered interference.

This is completely wrong. Sorry.

1) You don't have to knock a guy down for it to be interference.

2) Petro was knocked down on the play anyway.

3) The puck wasn't that close...four or five feet away and Petro never touched it.

4) Helm made no effort to play the puck and checked Petro, preventing him from reaching the puck.

Textbook interference.

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This is completely wrong. Sorry.

1) You don't have to knock a guy down for it to be interference.

2) Petro was knocked down on the play anyway.

3) The puck wasn't that close...four or five feet away and Petro never touched it.

4) Helm made no effort to play the puck and checked Petro, preventing him from reaching the puck.

Textbook interference.

There were a lot of potential interference calls that went uncalled throughout the game. Seems that both teams were happy to grab and hold or just interfere with people not carrying the puck throughout the entire game. To say that one blown call resulted in the loss is really a bad analysis. Do I think St. Louis could have had more power plays? Yup, but I also think the Wings were deprived of some extra power play time just based on the interference I saw.

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There were a lot of potential interference calls that went uncalled throughout the game. Seems that both teams were happy to grab and hold or just interfere with people not carrying the puck throughout the entire game. To say that one blown call resulted in the loss is really a bad analysis. Do I think St. Louis could have had more power plays? Yup, but I also think the Wings were deprived of some extra power play time just based on the interference I saw.

I didn't say it resulted in the loss, but had that been called, the Wings don't get a PP and may not have went up 3-1. The game would have remained 2-1 with a 4 on 4 coming.

Wings may still have won the game, but that bad non-call allowed for a PPG that kind of put the game out of reach.

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I didn't say it resulted in the loss, but had that been called, the Wings don't get a PP and may not have went up 3-1. The game would have remained 2-1 with a 4 on 4 coming.

Wings may still have won the game, but that bad non-call allowed for a PPG that kind of put the game out of reach.

Thats assuming the Wings wouldn't have scored on the 4 on 4 or the final wouldn't have been 2-1. I am sure you and other St. Louis fans would have bitched about the other power play goal as well and the call that led to that if you lost 2-1 instead. But I digress.....

The point is this.....

As sports fans, we have endured many moments of yelling at the TV or bitching about what happens in the game because of the refs and what they call and don't call. After playing hockey for 12 years, I decided to put on the stripes and referee. After three years of refereeing, I learned some very valuable lessons in that no one calls a flawless game and calls will always be missed throughout the game. Mistakes are going to happen and refs don't have the luxury of instant replay.

I now spend less time bitching about the reffing when I watch a game. Its more about analysis and understanding why the ref called something.

In the end, the better team wins the game. The calls in the course of the game don't dictate a win or a loss. The puck bounces funny and sometimes, a team will get a one or two goal lead. Its up to the better team to overcome those bounces and win the game. This is why playoff series are played in 7 games. The better team always wins in a 7 game playoff as well.

Levying blame on the refs for the calls as the reason why your team lost really is a cop out IMHO.

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It was a missed call by the refs, but one thing I have learned over the past couple of years is that there are 82 games in a season and sometimes you get calls in your favor, and then other games things just don't go the way you want. I was at the game last night and I saw quite a few missed calls- - both ways- - but by not calling every little infraction made for a really exciting and enjoyable game between 2 of the leagues best teams.

For the first chunk of the first period it was all St. Louis. The Wings were just watching the play... couldn't pass, hit, or anything. Then During one of the commercial breaks, Mike Babcock had the team huddle together and they had a quick team meeting. Whatever he said at that time worked, because shortly after Stuart had his fantastic hit, and that turned the game around. In my opinion, it was whatever babcock said to the team that changed the game- - not the refs. Speaking of Mike Babcock, I just want to say what an awesome person he is. Yesterday the team I coach got to play at Joe Louis Arena at 4pm, and before the boys went on the ice, we were all welecomed by a visit from Mike Babcock- - the kids were THRILLED. He came in there, joked around with them, talked a bit and wished everyone good luck. Little things like that make a huge difference for kids, and it goes to show not only is Babs the best coach in the league, but he is an awesome person as well. That's why I think his words on that tv timeout was the difference maker.

Nev likes this

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This is completely wrong. Sorry.

1) You don't have to knock a guy down for it to be interference.

2) Petro was knocked down on the play anyway.

3) The puck wasn't that close...four or five feet away and Petro never touched it.

4) Helm made no effort to play the puck and checked Petro, preventing him from reaching the puck.

Textbook interference.

Its not interference if both players are challenging for the puck. Look at when kronwall got knocked on his ass earlier in the season challenging for a puck which led to a the GWG, cant remember who we were playing though.

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The better team always wins in a 7 game playoff as well.

Levying blame on the refs for the calls as the reason why your team lost really is a cop out IMHO.

This isnt always true.

Sometimes there is a legitimate blame on the refereeing, but not in this case. See Hossa's non-goal against ducks, or about 9 out of every 10 Holmstrom non-goals.

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It's about more than distance travelled. Stewart came off the bench and came right over to Stuart. He had no intention of doing anything but fighting.

Not only was that the right call, but he should have received a game misconduct and be up for supplemental discipline. Leaving the bench with the intention of starting an altercation is suspendable. Jean-Francois Jacques was already banned for that this year. Not sure if FSD showed it, but NBC showed his direct path to Stuart after he left the bench, completely ignoring the play. He even confirmed that in his post game comments. In the end, I don't really care, but if we're going to ***** about missed calls...why not start at the top? "Hey, the rules are the rules"

Its not interference if both players are challenging for the puck. Look at when kronwall got knocked on his ass earlier in the season challenging for a puck which led to a the GWG, cant remember who we were playing though.

It was against Minnesota when Koivu threw that back hit into Kronwall.

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This isnt always true.

Sometimes there is a legitimate blame on the refereeing, but not in this case. See Hossa's non-goal against ducks, or about 9 out of every 10 Holmstrom non-goals.

Once again, I say the better team always wins a 7 game series.

Good teams don't blame the refs or misfortune for losing games. Good teams rise above the adversity and win games.

Edited by Nightfall

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I only saw the replay of that once...and yes, it looked like to me like it should have been a penalty.

Isn't that what discussion forums are for? Talking about the details of the game?

Ummm...the power play the Wings got from that whole series of events led to their 3rd goal. Huge goal in the game. It most certainly was a big enough travesty to make an argument out of. It's the biggest gripe I have in the game. Probably should have been mathing minors for interference and roughing... and a 4 on 4 as result, not a Wings power play.

To be fair the power play was the result of one of your players not being able to keep his cool and went after Helm. I am not sure how often you watch the Wings but you will notice that when a Wing gets run or hit hard, we don't take stupid penalties after. Our players realize we have a PP coming and they keep their cool. In my opinion they were both going after the puck and Helm caught him off guard and off balance resulting in the hit looking pretty bad. Contact in a race for the puck happens several times a game though and it is a fight for the puck, not interference.

In the play where Homstroms stick was knocked out of his hand, after he picked it up he chased the puck carrier and was picked/interferred with and it wasnt called. Holmstrom could actually get shot with a shotgun out there and not draw a call though. This isnt just against you guys, he never gets calls.

If anyone wants specific plays from the game, let me know and I'll try to have them up on YT by tonight.

If you can find the play where Holmstroms stick is knocked out of his hand and then seconds later he was intereferred with I would appreciate it. I want to see if the interference/pick is as bad as I though it was at the time.

Thanks

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