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Hockeytown0001

1/23 GDT : Blues 1 at Red Wings 3

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Overall Detroit was the better team tonight. They deserved to win.

With that said...I had some issues with a couple things.

Detroit's two power play goals probably shouldn't have happened...I'll explain.

1) I don't think Stewart should have gotten an instigator penalty. Yes, he approached Stuart and wanted to fight...that's obvious...but Stuart dropped his gloves first. Stuart was a willing participant. Stewart didn't drop his gloves and jump on Stuart. I disagreed with that call. You see fights start all of the time where one guy goes over to another guy and gives him a shot and says let's go, and the other guy agrees and the gloves come off. That's the way I saw this...Stewart just went a long way to fight Stuart.

2) Helm's hit on Pietrangelo late in the 3rd was textbook interference. Petro was skating for the puck and he seemed to be a good 5 or 6 feet from the puck, hadn't touched it yet, and Helm destroys him. If Petro would have had the puck, it would have been a great hit...but the only problem was he didn't have the puck. Assuming Carlo still retaliates, it should have been 2 minutes on Helm and 2 minutes on Carlo. It should have been 4 on 4 with 3 1/2 minutes left instead of a Detroit PP.

My first point is debatable. I'm sure you can make a case that Stewart should have gotten the instigator and argue that...we could debate that all day since it comes down to rule interpretation. But I don't see the 2nd point being debatable at all. It's clearly interference on Helm, and just not called.

Congrats on the win. Like I said, Detroit was the better team in this game.

Maybe we can even up the season series on the next game in St. Louis...and hopefully we beat Pittsburgh tomorrow to get right back to within 1 pt. of the Wings.

cnot19 likes this

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<br />Overall Detroit was the better team tonight.  They deserved to win.<br /><br />With that said...I had some issues with a couple things.<br />Detroit's two power play goals probably shouldn't have happened...I'll explain.<br /><br />1)  I don't think Stewart should have gotten an instigator penalty.  Yes, he approached Stuart and wanted to fight...that's obvious...but Stuart dropped his gloves first.  Stuart was a willing participant.  Stewart didn't drop his gloves and jump on Stuart.  I disagreed with that call.  You see fights start all of the time where one guy goes over to another guy and gives him a shot and says let's go, and the other guy agrees and the gloves come off.  That's the way I saw this...Stewart just went a long way to fight Stuart.<br /><br />2)  Helm's hit on Pietrangelo late in the 3rd was textbook interference.  Petro was skating for the puck and he seemed to be a good 5 or 6 feet from the puck, hadn't touched it yet, and Helm destroys him.  If Petro would have had the puck, it would have been a great hit...but the only problem was he didn't have the puck.  Assuming Carlo still retaliates, it should have been 2 minutes on Helm and 2 minutes on Carlo.  It should have been 4 on 4 with 3 1/2 minutes left instead of a Detroit PP.<br /><br />My first point is debatable.  I'm sure you can make a case that Stewart should have gotten the instigator and argue that...we could debate that all day since it comes down to rule interpretation.  But I don't see the 2nd point being debatable at all.  It's clearly interference on Helm, and just not called.<br /><br />Congrats on the win.  Like I said, Detroit was the better team in this game.<br />Maybe we can even up the season series on the next game in St. Louis...and hopefully we beat Pittsburgh tomorrow to get right back to within 1 pt. of the Wings.<br />
<br /><br /><br />

You're on the wrong forum.

Jasper84 likes this

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<br /><br /><br />

You're on the wrong forum.

So.. who cares?

He's been here the whole game and unlike most people that post at other teams forums just for the game, he has been on here a couple times I seen when were not playing the Blues. I for one say he is welcome to stay! :). Except for some on LGB forum that I was reading, kinda pathetic but that's a whole new thing.

Now for my thought on the game, good game out of the Red Wings. Blues had a good first period but once the Red Wings scored on a Dastyuk nipe, Blues didn't know how to respond and next thing you know there down 2 to 1. Blues tried to goon it up (nothing wrong with it). Red Wings did a good job by sticking to what they do best and just beat teams with skill, although don't get me wrong, I loved the scrum with 01.5 left!

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There is so much crying going on over at the Blues board. They are convinced that the NBC announcers are in love with the Red Wings, that Stuart should be suspended for his hit, and that Howard instigated the fight at the end.

Also that Helm should have had a penalty when Carlo got called, and that Franzen's goal should have been discounted.

To be fair, Helm SHOULD have gotten an interference penalty.

Stuart's hit on Petro was a good hit, nothing illegal about it...but Stewart was right in defending his teammate. Helm's hit on Petro would have been good except for the fact Petro didn't have the puck on the last one. Carlo reacted poorly...either stand up for your teammate or don't...don't just put the guy in a headlock, what does that do?

Howard didn't instigate the fight, but he got off easy with only 2 minutes. He was throwing punches at everyone. He should have gotten a lot more, but it didn't matter...game was over.

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Overall Detroit was the better team tonight. They deserved to win.

With that said...I had some issues with a couple things.

Detroit's two power play goals probably shouldn't have happened...I'll explain.

1) I don't think Stewart should have gotten an instigator penalty. Yes, he approached Stuart and wanted to fight...that's obvious...but Stuart dropped his gloves first. Stuart was a willing participant. Stewart didn't drop his gloves and jump on Stuart. I disagreed with that call. You see fights start all of the time where one guy goes over to another guy and gives him a shot and says let's go, and the other guy agrees and the gloves come off. That's the way I saw this...Stewart just went a long way to fight Stuart.

2) Helm's hit on Pietrangelo late in the 3rd was textbook interference. Petro was skating for the puck and he seemed to be a good 5 or 6 feet from the puck, hadn't touched it yet, and Helm destroys him. If Petro would have had the puck, it would have been a great hit...but the only problem was he didn't have the puck. Assuming Carlo still retaliates, it should have been 2 minutes on Helm and 2 minutes on Carlo. It should have been 4 on 4 with 3 1/2 minutes left instead of a Detroit PP.

My first point is debatable. I'm sure you can make a case that Stewart should have gotten the instigator and argue that...we could debate that all day since it comes down to rule interpretation. But I don't see the 2nd point being debatable at all. It's clearly interference on Helm, and just not called.

Congrats on the win. Like I said, Detroit was the better team in this game.

Maybe we can even up the season series on the next game in St. Louis...and hopefully we beat Pittsburgh tomorrow to get right back to within 1 pt. of the Wings.

Completely disagree. From the rule book...

An instigator of an altercation shall be a player who by his actions or demeanor demonstrates any/some of the following criteria: distance traveled;... obvious retribution for a previous incident in the game or season.

Stewart came off the bench and went all the way across the ice directly to Stuart. Perfectly fits under "distance traveled." And the retribution was even more obvious.

Seems pretty obvious to me that he met the criteria of an instigator.

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He got punched in the face. What else would he have done? And what could the players on the ice have done differently? There were 6 Blues forwards one the ice and all of them had a Wing tied up, leaving the 6th guy on Howard.

I don't like that those were the players out there, but what exactly is Howard supposed to do differently when he gets suckere punched in the face?

Just analyzed the replay.

Petro didn't look like he made contact with Howard when he took a swing, if he did he just grazed his shoulder, maybe the side of his mask...but he wasn't sucker punched. And it looked like the puck came up, Howard had it on his chest, may have been fluttering a bit, Petro took a swing that goes over Howard's shoulder...maybe he's swinging at the puck trying to punch it in, not sure what he was doing because you lose sight of the puck from that camera angle.

Honestly, if he wanted to sucker punch him, he could have easily done so.

Either that, or he is a horrible fighter with terrible aim.

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<br /><br /><br />

You're on the wrong forum.

Some of our better members here are from fans of other teams. It's always good to get perspective from fans of other teams, as long as they're not trolling.

And realize that they need to play nice because they're in hostile territory. :D

Completely disagree. From the rule book...

Stewart came off the bench and went all the way across the ice directly to Stuart. Perfectly fits under "distance traveled." And the retribution was even more obvious.

Seems pretty obvious to me that he met the criteria of an instigator.

Agreed. Stuart may have technically dropped the gloves first, but Stewart clearly came over to challenge him to a fight. The Wing's Stuart isn't going to turtle, so he obliged. But Stewart (man this name thing is annoying) clearly instigated the fight.

Him challenging Stuart was pretty much the textbook case for the instigator.

To be fair, Helm SHOULD have gotten an interference penalty.

Stuart's hit on Petro was a good hit, nothing illegal about it...but Stewart was right in defending his teammate. Helm's hit on Petro would have been good except for the fact Petro didn't have the puck on the last one. Carlo reacted poorly...either stand up for your teammate or don't...don't just put the guy in a headlock, what does that do?

Howard didn't instigate the fight, but he got off easy with only 2 minutes. He was throwing punches at everyone. He should have gotten a lot more, but it didn't matter...game was over.

Goalies typically get off lighter in situations like that. Howard had two Blues players jabbing at his head.

To me the frustrating part is that Howie is among the most tenacious and physical Wing's players in those situations.

hooon, cnot19 and EuroWing like this

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Completely disagree. From the rule book...

Stewart came off the bench and went all the way across the ice directly to Stuart. Perfectly fits under "distance traveled." And the retribution was even more obvious.

Seems pretty obvious to me that he met the criteria of an instigator.

I agree that he went over there to start a fight. And he went a long way to do it. Which is probably why he got the penalty.

But Stuart was very willing to go and dropped the gloves first instead of skating away or making Stewart drop them first.

I just don't like that call as an instigator penalty. In most fights, one guy wants to go, gives the other guy a shot and they go.

If Stewart goes over there gives him a shot and drops the gloves first and Stuart is forced to drop the gloves to defend himself, then yes, by all means Stewart gets the instigator.

I fail to see why distance traveled should come into play IF both guys are willing participants and especially if the other guy drops his gloves first.

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I agree that he went over there to start a fight. And he went a long way to do it. Which is probably why he got the penalty.

But Stuart was very willing to go and dropped the gloves first instead of skating away or making Stewart drop them first.

I just don't like that call as an instigator penalty. In most fights, one guy wants to go, gives the other guy a shot and they go.

If Stewart goes over there gives him a shot and drops the gloves first and Stuart is forced to drop the gloves to defend himself, then yes, by all means Stewart gets the instigator.

I fail to see why distance traveled should come into play IF both guys are willing participants and especially if the other guy drops his gloves first.

I'm sure Stuart would've preferred not to fight, but he's not going to turtle.

It's about more than distance travelled. Stewart came off the bench and came right over to Stuart. He had no intention of doing anything but fighting.

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Detroit's two power play goals probably shouldn't have happened...I'll explain.

1) I don't think Stewart should have gotten an instigator penalty. Yes, he approached Stuart and wanted to fight...that's obvious...but Stuart dropped his gloves first. Stuart was a willing participant. Stewart didn't drop his gloves and jump on Stuart. I disagreed with that call. You see fights start all of the time where one guy goes over to another guy and gives him a shot and says let's go, and the other guy agrees and the gloves come off. That's the way I saw this...Stewart just went a long way to fight Stuart.

2) Helm's hit on Pietrangelo late in the 3rd was textbook interference. Petro was skating for the puck and he seemed to be a good 5 or 6 feet from the puck, hadn't touched it yet, and Helm destroys him. If Petro would have had the puck, it would have been a great hit...but the only problem was he didn't have the puck. Assuming Carlo still retaliates, it should have been 2 minutes on Helm and 2 minutes on Carlo. It should have been 4 on 4 with 3 1/2 minutes left instead of a Detroit PP.

My first point is debatable. I'm sure you can make a case that Stewart should have gotten the instigator and argue that...we could debate that all day since it comes down to rule interpretation. But I don't see the 2nd point being debatable at all. It's clearly interference on Helm, and just not called.

You are experiencing what is known as confirmation bias syndrome. Don't worry this happens to the best of us, and is a common occurrence when your favorite team loses a game.

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To be fair, Helm SHOULD have gotten an interference penalty.

Stuart's hit on Petro was a good hit, nothing illegal about it...but Stewart was right in defending his teammate. Helm's hit on Petro would have been good except for the fact Petro didn't have the puck on the last one. Carlo reacted poorly...either stand up for your teammate or don't...don't just put the guy in a headlock, what does that do?

Howard didn't instigate the fight, but he got off easy with only 2 minutes. He was throwing punches at everyone. He should have gotten a lot more, but it didn't matter...game was over.

I certainly like having an opposing voice, sometimes with too many on one side we can lose our objectiveness and simply agree with each other because were homers, so I applaud you for being part of this board. Either way i think Stewart deserved the extra two, maybe not the instigator ( taking him out for ten) but would have been fine with him getting two for roughing since he initiated the altercation after a clean hit, either way i dont think stewart was too off base, good for him for standing up for his teammate.

As far as the Helm hit, i dont think he deserved a penalty, I didnt see anything wrong with the hit. I think thats just good hard nosed hockey. IMO I really think Carlo cost his team there more than anything, and would be more annoyed by that than the missed call. Even if the refs miss calls (which they do) why give them a really easy way to call one on you?

Either way, I like the blues, their style of play, and have always been a fan of John Davidson, look forward to having more competitive battles with the Blues.

Edited by cnot19
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You are experiencing what is known as confirmation bias syndrome. Don't worry this happens to the best of us, and is a common occurrence when your favorite team loses a game.

You can make that point on my first point...that's rule interpretation...so I'll give you that. But my 2nd point isn't debatable at all. So you wanna try to explain to me how it wasn't textbook interference?

I'd love to hear it.

Edited by cprice12

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You can make that point on my first point...that's rule interpretation...so I'll give you that. But my 2nd point isn't debatable at all. So you wanna try to explain to me how it wasn't textbook interference?

I'd love to hear it.

I don't remember the play well enough to give an opinion on whether or not helm's hit was interference. I can't find a replay of the hit.

But what about the play where Holmstrom had his stick slashed out of his hands? That is considered a penalty and there was no call on the play, so perhaps two wrong calls make a right?

But I'd blame the Blues frustration for this loss, not the refs.

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Petro didn't look like he made contact with Howard when he took a swing, if he did he just grazed his shoulder, maybe the side of his mask...but he wasn't sucker punched.

Oh, so he was only swinging at Howard, but may not have made contact. Well, if he's only TRYING to punch the goalie then that makes everything OK!

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For everyone saying Refs love the Wings, I made this ;)

Wings PP opportunities:

Away: 88. 11th in the league on the road.

Home: 92. 12th in the league at home.

Total: 180. 9th in the league.

Teams like MTL, CBJ, and even the Kings have more PP opps than the Wings. The league must love them, eh?

Wings Times Shorthanded:

Away: 87, 14th fewest in the league at away.

Home: 80, 18th fewest in the league at home.

Total: 167, 15th lowest times shorthanded.

Teams like PHX, NYI, and florida are all near the top of the league for fewest times shorthanded, refs must love them.

Yah...the refs love the Wings

As long as cprice12 isn't an obvious Blues troll (which he isn't), I don't care if he posts. Other opposing team fans SHOULD post here.

CPrice is the s***. He's been here forever and makes great points. He's one poster of an opposite fan base I respect. Him and Duck Guy.

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You can make that point on my first point...that's rule interpretation...so I'll give you that. But my 2nd point isn't debatable at all. So you wanna try to explain to me how it wasn't textbook interference?

I'd love to hear it.

You act like this is the first time ever that a referee has missed a call during a game.

It happens. Suck it up and take your lumps. Stop coming here with excuses and instigating conversations about the officiating when you acknowledge that the Wings were the better team in the match. It comes off as petty.

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I don't mind Howard being scrappy at all. He can stand up for himself and he isn't afraid to do so. He could complain to refs or media about it but instead he gets physical back. With the Joe chanting his name towards the end he was probably pumped up to get the win. He knows the hometown fans like physical goalies too ;)

cprice12, I saw you were saying Howard has a history of "attacking players" on your forum. Such as against Crosby when he was mauling Zetterberg at the end of that game which I'm sure you didn't see from your youtube clips. Or like here when Howard "attacked" Pietrangelo because he didn't like getting socked in the face at the end of a game when they were pushing and shoving back at Howard if not more (grabbing his mask from behind.) Yet you have complaints about Stewart instigating Stuart? :huh: Enough Excuses. We'll see you April 4th. And then maybe a month or so after that if you're lucky.

Tman77 likes this

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You can make that point on my first point...that's rule interpretation...so I'll give you that. But my 2nd point isn't debatable at all. So you wanna try to explain to me how it wasn't textbook interference?

I'd love to hear it.

Well then whichever Blue it was that knocked Holmstrom's stick out of his hand's in the 2nd should have been given a slashing penalty, it gets called 9 outta 10 times! So now i disagree with the officiating too... Point is you could nitpick every minute of the game if you wanted too, and I don't think the interference was big enough travesty to make a good argument out of. They never showed the replay of Helms hit, so i couldn't say otherwise, but I disagree with your disagreeing. Only because I see your post as a way to try and have us justify an excuse for why wings won, when there clearly isn't one.

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"They tried to retaliate and took a penalty and we scored," Franzen said. "It was a nice, clean hit. Good for us that they tried to go after (Stuart).

"On Helmer, it was a clean hit again. ... I don’t know if they can tell the difference between a good and a bad hit."

In that same sentiment, I'm not sure if any team does, really.

But overall it just seems like a bunch of message sending.

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It's great to see hockey like this after games against the likes of Coytoes and Blow Jobets. I'm very happy that Blues are finally competitive.

I'm not. I wish they comeback to suck again cos Blues fans are pathetic with their whining. They're convinced that Stuart's hit is illegal hit to the head.

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