Cleary, Bertuzzi, Hudler and Franzen

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

It looks like the playoffs will make or break Franzen here on LGW.

His only defenders point to his past playoff performances as an excuse for his uninspiring work ethic all year. If he doesn't put up big playoff numbers, he won't have any defenders on this board at all.

And I know he leads the team in goals, but his goal total isn't all that impressive. It's not like he has around 40 goals, and no one is close to him. Our goal scoring tends to be balanced throughout the lineup.

[Red Reign 3]

Franzen leads the team in goals and Bert has been arguably one of the harder working players this season. Neither of them are my "favorite" players, but I enjoy having them on the team.

Hudler is stepping up his game, but I wouldn't be heartbroken if the Holland decided to put him on the trading block after this season. He is a decent player, but I'm not sure if he justifies his pricetag. Still, I like that he has been putting in more effort this season.

Cleary can go - he is one of those guys that I tend to forget is even on the team. If we cut him loose after this season, it's fine by me.

That said, I would much rather get rid of Stuart and Ericsson than any of the guys mentioned above.

[kylee 727]

Hudler is a free agent after this season. I'm not saying we should let him walk regardless but we should see what else is out there.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

It looks like the playoffs will make or break Franzen here on LGW.

His only defenders point to his past playoff performances as an excuse for his uninspiring work ethic all year. If he doesn't put up big playoff numbers, he won't have any defenders on this board at all.

And I know he leads the team in goals, but his goal total isn't all that impressive. It's not like he has around 40 goals, and no one is close to him. Our goal scoring tends to be balanced throughout the lineup.

It's not like he is getting paid anywhere near what a 40 goal scorer gets paid.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Hudler is a free agent after this season. I'm not saying we should let him walk regardless but we should see what else is out there.

How about Niklas Hagman? 20 points in 56 games (8 with Calgary) on a mediocre Anaheim team. He won't command as much as Hudler probably will, and we'll likely get around the same production.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Bring Back The Bruise Bros

[b.shanafan14 733]

It's not like he is getting paid anywhere near what a 40 goal scorer gets paid.

Not sure if that was sarcasm or not. Franzen's cap hit might be $3.95m but he is getting paid $5.25m, and given the security he was given with such a long-term contract, its fair to argue that he should be playing like closer to $6.0m. He got on the team by playing tough, physical, and responsible while going to the hard areas. He's been doing less and less of that since signing the contract. The production rates are down, but he has also made himself tremendously one-dimensional.

Third year of an ELEVEN year front-loaded contract and he is already playing down to the cap hit. He better stay pretty damn consistent, otherwise I wonder how he'll be playing by the time he is actually making $3.95m (which will be in 5 years, for those wondering). Like GMRwings said, what happens when he plays uninterested and "bored" during the regular season (when everyone else is required to put in the effort) and he gets to playoffs and either doesn't perform, or like last year, gets injured? What are the Wings paying for then?

[NBCnothingbutcrosby 159]

I've been flamed on this board the past 2 years for seeing how ineffective Cleary has been. Now others are starting to see it; I must say, I do feel a sense of sweet vindication.

He needs to go after this season, for the salary he makes, we could get younger, faster, and more effective. He's a 4th line grinder at best now, but makes money of a 2nd liner. I believe his contract is up this year? Please dear god, Holland do NOT re-sign him!!!

[LeftWinger 5,129]

This team could do without any of all 4 of them... I like Cleary with Helm, but Helm makes anyone look good. I could have done without Bertuzzi next season (and the next) but as long as he plays with Datsyuk, he is effective enough....as much as I hate Hudler, I am happy with his resurgence this year, which means he will ask for $5M+ next year as a UFA, I hope Holland lets him walk. If he wants to re-sign for $3M or less, then I have no issues. Franzen, hmmmmm.....leading the team in goals (barely) but is falling fast down the points list. I for one cant stand the people that defend him for his playoff year a couple ago. He is SO inconsistent it hurts. He scores his goals all before March and then struggles to get back. I agree that if he doesn't have another magical playoff at a point per game, he should seriously be shopped or bought out. Ya, his cap hit is not too bad, but he is not earning his $4M. Points are one thing, work ethic and heart are another, he has none of that and like I said is fading on the point scale. But he is what he is...lazy. I am done with him.

If they lost all four, I would not hesitate a fart....

[kipwinger 8,754]

It's not like he is getting paid anywhere near what a 40 goal scorer gets paid.

well I should hope not, considering he's never scored 40 goals and only scored 30+ once.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I've been flamed on this board the past 2 years for seeing how ineffective Cleary has been. Now others are starting to see it; I must say, I do feel a sense of sweet vindication.

He needs to go after this season, for the salary he makes, we could get younger, faster, and more effective. He's a 4th line grinder at best now, but makes money of a 2nd liner. I believe his contract is up this year? Please dear god, Holland do NOT re-sign him!!!

I can't imagine why you were getting flamed for calling Cleary ineffective in a year he scored 26 goals.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Not sure if that was sarcasm or not. Franzen's cap hit might be $3.95m but he is getting paid $5.25m, and given the security he was given with such a long-term contract, its fair to argue that he should be playing like closer to $6.0m. He got on the team by playing tough, physical, and responsible while going to the hard areas. He's been doing less and less of that since signing the contract. The production rates are down, but he has also made himself tremendously one-dimensional.

Third year of an ELEVEN year front-loaded contract and he is already playing down to the cap hit. He better stay pretty damn consistent, otherwise I wonder how he'll be playing by the time he is actually making $3.95m (which will be in 5 years, for those wondering). Like GMRwings said, what happens when he plays uninterested and "bored" during the regular season (when everyone else is required to put in the effort) and he gets to playoffs and either doesn't perform, or like last year, gets injured? What are the Wings paying for then?

You can whine when he stops playing up to his contract.

As of right now, it is a good value contract, and with the cap continuing to steadily rise, it will continue to be less and less of a percentage of the cap hit.

When Ville Leino is getting paid $4.5 million to score 6 goals and Rick Nash is being paid almost 8 million for the same goals as Franzen at this point, I would think we should be perfectly okay with how the Franzen contract has played out so far.

And I don't really care about regular salary. Detroit is the second most valuable team in the U.S. (behind the Rangers), so whether they take a small bath on overpaying in salary for their leading goal scorer, I can live with that.

[LeftWinger 5,129]

You can whine when he stops playing up to his contract.

As of right now, it is a good value contract, and with the cap continuing to steadily rise, it will continue to be less and less of a percentage of the cap hit.

When Ville Leino is getting paid $4.5 million to score 6 goals and Rick Nash is being paid almost 8 million for the same goals as Franzen at this point, I would think we should be perfectly okay with how the Franzen contract has played out so far.

And I don't really care about regular salary. Detroit is the second most valuable team in the U.S. (behind the Rangers), so whether they take a small bath on overpaying in salary for their leading goal scorer, I can live with that.

on the other side of the ball sack, Hudler, Helm, Miller and Filppula are make LESS than Franzen and are out performing him on a regular basis. Filppula is way more valuable to this team than Franzen...so is Helm and Abdelkader, so you can argue his salary both ways. He is overpaid considering for his lack of consistency IMO. He takes a raincheck on most nights. If he would play 100% for 82 games? He'd be making $8M somewhere...

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

on the other side of the ball sack, Hudler, Helm, Miller and Filppula are make LESS than Franzen and are out performing him on a regular basis. Filppula is way more valuable to this team than Franzen...so is Helm and Abdelkader, so you can argue his salary both ways. He is overpaid considering for his lack of consistency IMO. He takes a raincheck on most nights. If he would play 100% for 82 games? He'd be making $8M somewhere...

Franzen's best year was 34 goals on a stacked Wings team when he had much more effort. He would not command 8 million regardless of effort.

Second, he is a better player than both Miller and Hudler on a regular basis, and his production has reflected that.

Filpulla has played above and beyond his contract. So what?

Also, Helm and Abdelkader aren't top 6 players, and likely never will be. Your ridiculous view on Franzen clouds the fact he is paid well for his production.

[NBCnothingbutcrosby 159]

I can't imagine why you were getting flamed for calling Cleary ineffective in a year he scored 26 goals.

At first it had to do with his inability to stay on the ice. Now it seems as though his injuries have caught up to him (like I said they would sooner than later). If people by now haven't seen that the often injured, slower, and ineffective Cleary shouldn't be on this team. Then I don't know what to say. I've said this many times, that he is way overpaid for what he brings to the team now. He gets a lot of ice time and does nothing with it, give Helm that much and I wonder what would happen.

[Guest Crymson]

It looks like the playoffs will make or break Franzen here on LGW.

His only defenders point to his past playoff performances as an excuse for his uninspiring work ethic all year. If he doesn't put up big playoff numbers, he won't have any defenders on this board at all.

And I know he leads the team in goals, but his goal total isn't all that impressive. It's not like he has around 40 goals, and no one is close to him. Our goal scoring tends to be balanced throughout the lineup.

Uh oh. He risks disappointing GMR if he doesn't perform well in the playoffs. And we all know what that will mean for him*

That said, he justifies the $4m spent on him. It's not as if he's being paid top dollar. He's an adequate scorer.

*Absolutely nothing

Edited March 6, 2012 by Crymson

[Esquire 324]

Bottom line: On a team with the world's best player (Datsyuk) and the worlds' hardest working player (Helm), the rest of the team is going to look like s*** unless they're putting up career best numbers.

Everyone's got a role to play, and by looking at the standings, they're playing it pretty well. Sure, some guys might not be putting up career numbers, but I can't think of a year that every single player on a team justified their salary/cap hit.*

"That's the way she goes, boys. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't cause that's the f***in way she goes"

*Edit: Of course, an argument can always be made for a players salary by winning the Cup I suppose.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Esquire

[Vladifan 680]

Don't like Hudler much anymore. He should be shooting more than passing and floating. Franzen IS lazy. He may have the most goals (?), but the point is, he could do more and play harder. He has the talent for it. I like Bert but he plays with one hand more than two (and just kind of pokes at the puck too often) and doesn't drive down the ice and/or toward the net often enough. As for Cleary, I don't agree with seemingly lots of you. I think for whatever reason he's snake-bit, as Mickey might say. He plays hard, drives the net, screens, hits on the boards and fights for the puck. But his timing just seems way off. It shows the most when he shoots at the net. Methinks if anything, he's trying too hard. Then again, I've always liked him.

[ben_usmc 253]

Cleary has been damn near worthless the last 2 years. He just skates into the zone and then loses the puck in the corner, or takes a shot from below the face off circle, making any rush pointless. Mule is lazy and it's really annoying, but like everyone else has said, depending on his playoffs will mold more defining opinion. Bert I think looks decent, wish it was a 1 year contract instead of 2, but he's alright. I'm not sure all the Hudler hate, he looks like he is always working his ass off, but physically gets owned, and takes bad penalties, I just don't think it's for a lack of effort.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Uh oh. He risks disappointing GMR if he doesn't perform well in the playoffs. And we all know what that will mean for him*

That said, he justifies the $4m spent on him. It's not as if he's being paid top dollar. He's an adequate scorer.

*Absolutely nothing

[Guest Crymson]

Cleary has been damn near worthless the last 2 years. He just skates into the zone and then loses the puck in the corner, or takes a shot from below the face off circle, making any rush pointless. Mule is lazy and it's really annoying, but like everyone else has said, depending on his playoffs will mold more defining opinion. Bert I think looks decent, wish it was a 1 year contract instead of 2, but he's alright. I'm not sure all the Hudler hate, he looks like he is always working his ass off, but physically gets owned, and takes bad penalties, I just don't think it's for a lack of effort.

Last season, Cleary scored 26 goals whilst providing his usual hardworking, physical style of play plus good defensive play both at even strength and on the PK. If that qualifies as "damn near worthless" to you, then I'm not sure what planet you're living on.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Crymson

[CopenhagenWing 38]

Cleary's been playing on a bum knee for at least half this season. Just sayin'...

[Guest stinky fish taco]

Cleary's been a bum this season. Just sayin'...

there you go. a few too many words in your original post.

[kipwinger 8,754]

there you go. a few too many words in your original post.

I don't know if it's all just a hilarious game for you or whatever, but your constant cynicism and nay saying is hilarious. It's a strange dynamic in which your almost endless negativity actually turns out to be a positive...at least for me. Keep up the good (or bad) work, as this board would surely be a little too dull without you.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

My opinion has already been stated a good amount on the play of Cleary and Franzen, and I would love to trade both. However, Bertuzzi is doing his job quite well and it earned him a 2 year contract extension...he's been doing good filling his role. Hudler...this is really the first time anyone's really ragged on him this year. He's putting up pretty decent stats and he's been hustling his midget ass twice as hard as Franzen, so why the question about Happy Hudler? He will undoubtedly be re-signed in the off season unless for some reason we get Parise and the Wings do the right thing and bring Nyquist and possibly Tatar up the Wings may be short roster spots, but will win the cup.

[Guest Crymson]

Hudler can't finish.