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ogreslayer

2012 Lockout Watch

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The release of the broadcast schedules is the doing of the League. This is their way of presenting the illusion that they really want the upcoming season to start on time. They don't; Uncle Gary has already tipped his hand.

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That's the thing. Bettman and the league keep saying how only 12 teams are profitable.

Are the Devils and their ridiculous contract for Kovalchuk profitable?

Are the Wild with the two giant contracts they just took on in Suter and Parise?

Or the Preds when they gave Weber $110 million over 14 years?

Or the Hurricanes who gave Semin a $7 million deal?

The owners are doing this to themselves and each other, yet expect the players to bear most of the burden for fixing their idiocy.

Reduce the players share by a few percentage points (keep in mind owners are reducing what constitutes HRR so even if the percentage were the same, the owners are getting more money). Put a reasonable limit on contract length of 7 or 8 years to make it harder for GM's to circumvent the cap like they have been. Increase revenue sharing if the owners really do want to help these struggling franchises. Minor tweaks to most other things. Play hockey.

Bolded part pretty much drives the point home as to why fans are more behind the players. the owners and GM's have handcuffed themselves. the owners have no problem offering massive contracts to keep their stars, but then complain and cry to the NHL when they have to pay them and the CBA expires and they try to take 10 steps back when they are the one's to blame for salary inflation in the first place.

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That's the thing though, they HAVE to offer these contracts, or someone else will. If you want a top tier player, you have to pay for it, or someone like the Rags or Wings will steal them from you. If all the GMs got together and said "OK, no more contracts above X dollars," the players would sue the league for anti-trust violations due to collusion charges, and noone wants that.

The real problem is the salary floor. Your Florida and Nashville and Columbus teams all give out these ridiculous contracts to scrubs so they can make the floor. Then the upper tier players say "If Tomas Kopecky is worth 3 million a year, there is no way I'm not worth 6 million per," and it spirals from there. I think more than anything it's one of those unforeseen issues like the signing bonus/front loaded 30 year deals that needs to be fixed. If they did a salary rollback to something reasonable, and then lower the floor and close the frontloaded contracts loophole, it would put all the teams in much better financial position going forward, and prevent the type of salary escalation that happened since the last lockout.

I mean, the players are going to eventually accept a rollback of some sort, if it gets to a lockout. Not sure why they don't just bite the bullet and get it over with.

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I am going to throw out my thoughts here on this since it has been about a week since I last did.

First off, I don't blame the owners for trying to fix the problem. Of course, the problem is caused by them. You have 30 owners, 20 of which want to win the cup or put a good team on the ice. When you have 20 owners all bidding for talent, the salaries of players have gone up. Maybe we do need to get more fiscally responsible owners, but I believe that these inflated contracts that are being signed are due also for a desire to win and puts butts in the seats as a result. The owners in every sport need to be protected from themselves. Look at most professional sports, where there are limits on contract length and in some cases amounts depending on the age of the player.

I am less in the public relations game and more in the "get the CBA finished" game. Lets analyze both deals.

The owners want to see a salary rollback, contract limits, no arbitration, and so on.

The players want to see a temporary rollback in salaries for the first couple years, but then it goes back up to 57%.

Which of these deals fix the overall problem?

Answer: None of them

The problem, as I have said before, is ownership, expanding into markets that can't sustain hockey, the salary floor, and the current financial state of the teams as a result. 12-13 teams are carrying the burden of the whole league when it comes to profits. The answer is not as simple though. The best answer would be to replace dumb ass owners who are not fiscally responsible, bring the salary floor down, move teams that are not financially stable, and limit contract lengths and amounts in some way so the owners don't kill themselves.

So, here we are. Neither side willing to budge. Lockout is 11 days away now.

So I say to the NHL and the NHLPA.....

Screw the league, and screw the players. Go ahead and strike. I won't be spending any more money on the NHL if there is a lockout. The owners or players don't deserve my money at this stage.

Edited by Nightfall

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I think key points are:

1) Lowering the cap floor. If you force teams to spend at least X-amount on player salaries when they simply can not afford them you are going to end up with a team that makes a loss every year.

2) Cap hit = actual salary. This would reduce the insane amount of 5+ year contracts that are signed. Would the Flyers really have sent in that offer sheet for Weber with a cap hit of 13 mln in his first year? No! Nashville did not have a choice to match the offer since Suter already left. (Well technically they had a choice) But in this case you force a team that can not take on such a contract to take on such a contract simply by a possible cap circumvention.

I wish both the owners and players will come to their senses and do what is the best for the league and the fans instead of just thinking about themselfs.

With a lockout soon to happen I am looking for alternative things to do / other leagues/sports etc. and I must say that I am going to care less and less about a lockout each day...

Edited by RippedOnNitro

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http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/story/2012/09/04/spf-nhl-nhlpa-cba-ron-maclean.html

Interesting read... give a little glimmer of hope, but the headline is so damn misleading... kind of pissed me off as I first believed they somehow reached a deal today or something.

Anyway, hopefully this guy is right.

That was indeed a very misleading title. And I unfortunately can't say I am as optimistic. But the nhl and nhlpa can proof me wrong...

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Screw the league, and screw the players. Go ahead and strike.

We know you are pro NHL/GMs and anti-NHLPA, but it has been pointed out to you multiple times already that this is a LOCKOUT, and yet you keep saying strike regardless. The players aren't striking, the owners are locking them out. Last CBA, was also a lockout. The one before that? Yep, also a lockout.

haroldsnepsts and 55fan like this

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I'm still a firm believer of my earlier predictions from a post in a similar thread; 60/40 in favor of a lock-out.

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We know you are pro NHL/GMs and anti-NHLPA, but it has been pointed out to you multiple times already that this is a LOCKOUT, and yet you keep saying strike regardless. The players aren't striking, the owners are locking them out. Last CBA, was also a lockout. The one before that? Yep, also a lockout.

Says the "NHLPA can do no wrong" fan. I suppose anyone who stands up against the NHLPA is a league apologist in your mind. Both sides are accountable here. I have said that at the beginning and I will say it until the end. Anyone just blindly kissing the NHLPA's ass in this is an idiot.

That was indeed a very misleading title. And I unfortunately can't say I am as optimistic. But the nhl and nhlpa can proof me wrong...

I am in the same boat. The two sides refuse to acknowledge the problems of the league right now. That alone means that we are in for a 2-3 month lockout, and I am a glass half full kind of guy normally.

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So am I correct in my understanding that there are no official talks scheduled for this week, but there is an owners meeting scheduled for next week to affirm support for a lockout?

guidos-bros-douchebags-fratboys-the-bro-smell-test-is-correct-again1.gif

I wish I was at the point to say I don't give a s***, but I'd be lying. I'll be heartbroken if we lose the Winter Classic because of this crap.

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We'll see NHL hockey in time for the Winter Classic. There's far too much money and attention involved with the Winter Classic to miss it. However, it doesn't look like we'll see the season start on time.

I'll reserve my absolute freakout rant for when it is announced that there will be a lockout.

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the atmosphere in my house is going to get reaaally unpleasant if/when the lockout is announced.

Rick D likes this

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I get NHL13 friday at 4 pm. If not for that i would completely lose it about no hockey. as it stands right now, there will be multiple trips to Brandon with the old man for our hockey fix. Unfortunately none of the friday or saturday games are against the Giants cause we both wanted to see Tvrdon.... May as well at least try to see some Wings prospects during the likely lockout.

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^That video is incredible, I hope it goes viral.

Great vid

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I am so frustrated that we are even facing this as a possibility (looking more and more like a reality) AGAIN. Absolutely ridiculous.

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I am so frustrated that we are even facing this as a possibility (looking more and more like a reality) AGAIN. Absolutely ridiculous.

Agreed.

If we lose hockey games this season, you can pretty much guarantee Bettman will lock players out every chance he gets for as long as he's commissioner.

Last time the owners got the cap, players are not trying to remove that cap, and revenue is through the roof. This should've been the easiest of all CBA renegotiations.

Instead we're 9 days out and the two sides aren't even talking.

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bettman and the owners plan to meet 9/13 to confirm plans to lockout the season. dont see them.meeting anytime before 9/15...

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This is so stupid. I seriously think Bettman and Co. wanted to take a year off, devised a plan for doing so, and are following it through to fruition. They were responsible for setting the meetings, which they did at the last minute, and ever since then they've had a negative rhetoric about how far apart the two sides are. Then they announced right off the bat that they would not use the option to play another year on the current CBA and they would go for a lockout.

All of this screams bad faith. The initial low-ball offer I can understand from a negotiation point of view even if it reeks of smarmyness <---It's a word because I say so.

I don't see any effort on the part of the league nor any urgency as the deadline approaches. Either they seriously don't want this season to happen or they are posturing, and doing so badly.

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This is so stupid. I seriously think Bettman and Co. wanted to take a year off, devised a plan for doing so, and are following it through to fruition. They were responsible for setting the meetings, which they did at the last minute, and ever since then they've had a negative rhetoric about how far apart the two sides are. Then they announced right off the bat that they would not use the option to play another year on the current CBA and they would go for a lockout.

All of this screams bad faith. The initial low-ball offer I can understand from a negotiation point of view even if it reeks of smarmyness <---It's a word because I say so.

I don't see any effort on the part of the league nor any urgency as the deadline approaches. Either they seriously don't want this season to happen or they are posturing, and doing so badly.

So well said! With you 100 percent.....unreal!

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pierre lebrun's take on negotiations

http://espn.go.com/n...ate-discussions

This is so stupid. I seriously think Bettman and Co. wanted to take a year off, devised a plan for doing so, and are following it through to fruition. They were responsible for setting the meetings, which they did at the last minute, and ever since then they've had a negative rhetoric about how far apart the two sides are. Then they announced right off the bat that they would not use the option to play another year on the current CBA and they would go for a lockout.

All of this screams bad faith. The initial low-ball offer I can understand from a negotiation point of view even if it reeks of smarmyness <---It's a word because I say so.

I don't see any effort on the part of the league nor any urgency as the deadline approaches. Either they seriously don't want this season to happen or they are posturing, and doing so badly.

let's not forget that the players aren't putting any effort into getting negotations going again either

neither side has shown any urgency. otherwise i agree with the rest of your post

Edited by chances14
esteef likes this

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pierre lebrun's take on negotiations

http://espn.go.com/n...ate-discussions

let's not forget that the players aren't putting any effort into getting negotations going again either

neither side has shown any urgency. otherwise i agree with the rest of your post

That's a pretty good article by Lebrun.

Here's another example of why the NHL saying they want to "partner" with the players is such a joke. Aside from wanting to redefine Hockey Related Revenue and reducing players share of revenue, they also want to more firmly establish their decision making and reduce the NHLPA's role.

From the article:

Another potential contentious issue, first reported by Larry Brooks in the New York Post on Wednesday, is the league's proposal to clarify "management rights" in the new CBA to give owners more power in the areas of realignment, schedule-making, playoff format, etc. This comes as a result of the NHLPA blocking the league's attempt to realign the divisions for the 2012-13 season.

...

The league wants the hammer next time it tries to realign.

"What we made clear both in terms of delivering the proposal and then talking about last Friday is we welcome the input, we want to work cooperatively with them and do things jointly to the extent we can, but at the end of the day, somebody has to be able to make decisions," said Daly. "We can't paralyze the business on the basis of no one party having the ability to make a decision. It's our clubs who are the ones opening the buildings and paying for the cost of putting on the games and producing the product to the fans. They should be making those decisions, ultimately."

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^^^ I was about to make a post about that particular comment. What he - Daly - is saying makes sense, but he comes across as such a dips***.

It's a good article, but it felt to me like Lebrun identified about 90 different issues as THE Core Issue, singular. I'm sure that's just quick, lazy reading on my part, though.

This is all so stupid.

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