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Excellent 'Parise and Suter to Detroit' article


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#41 ozone923

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 08:20 PM

Good read, but just another one of those juicy on the surface types, with nothing really substantial within. I think that it is a very real possibility that both Parise and Suter come to Detroit, given the elite tier of our organization and our tradition, let alone the other factors. But there are so many other intangibles that its hard to say anything about it.

Do we have enough cap space? Yes.
Do we have what winners want? Yes.
Do we have a team good enough to attract them? Yes.
Would both players take a reduced salary to be on our team? Yes.

I seriously don't think that '7 million a year' is a 'discounted price' given that Lidstrom was getting paid 7.5 million a few years ago. A discounted price for Parise would be around 6 million and Suter around the same. I think Holland would have to give up his "nobody gets paid more than Lidstrom" shenanigans fo Suter to come on, obviously, and Lidstrom should be paid only 5 million this upcoming year, should he return. I say give them 6 million a year for 5 years and then we have a legitimate shot at the cup for the next 5 years. Haha.

Cheers

#42 centcougar07

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 09:41 PM

Good read, but just another one of those juicy on the surface types, with nothing really substantial within. I think that it is a very real possibility that both Parise and Suter come to Detroit, given the elite tier of our organization and our tradition, let alone the other factors. But there are so many other intangibles that its hard to say anything about it.

Do we have enough cap space? Yes.
Do we have what winners want? Yes.
Do we have a team good enough to attract them? Yes.
Would both players take a reduced salary to be on our team? Yes.

I seriously don't think that '7 million a year' is a 'discounted price' given that Lidstrom was getting paid 7.5 million a few years ago. A discounted price for Parise would be around 6 million and Suter around the same. I think Holland would have to give up his "nobody gets paid more than Lidstrom" shenanigans fo Suter to come on, obviously, and Lidstrom should be paid only 5 million this upcoming year, should he return. I say give them 6 million a year for 5 years and then we have a legitimate shot at the cup for the next 5 years. Haha.

Cheers


Discounted based on the fact that they will get higher offers from other teams.

#43 ozone923

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 09:43 PM

Discounted based on the fact that they will get higher offers from other teams.


Fair, but neither player is legitimately worth more than 7 million. I would argue that to the death. But I know this is a thin crop of free agents so their value skyrockets (but teams will eventually catch on, and won't risk f*cking their teams for centuries to come by overpaying.

#44 Jersey Wing

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 11:17 PM

If the Wings CAN pull this off I'll be the naked guy at the top of the Empire State Building jumping up and down.

Til' then......

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#45 Red Wings Addict

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 11:23 PM

If the Wings CAN pull this off I'll be the naked guy at the top of the Empire State Building jumping up and down.

Til' then......


What's the punishment for that? Maybe we should start a Jersey Wing bail/fine donation box here on LGW, hehe.

#46 Doc Holliday

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:18 AM

What do you mean winning? We haven't got out of the second round of the playoffs in 3 years. I mean sure we've won in the regular season but recently, we haven't done much in the playoffs.

How does it give us an advantage?


The Wings have proven more than anyone they have been able to bounce back after off seasons.

Before 97 they had plenty of early exits and playoff disappointments. Before 2001 they had the same. And before 2008 they had the same.

If Parise and Suter can understand how their impact would vault the Wings back to a Cup contender (which history has shown), they will definitely take a big look.

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#47 centcougar07

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:06 AM

The Wings have proven more than anyone they have been able to bounce back after off seasons.

Before 97 they had plenty of early exits and playoff disappointments. Before 2001 they had the same. And before 2008 they had the same.

If Parise and Suter can understand how their impact would vault the Wings back to a Cup contender (which history has shown), they will definitely take a big look.


Fair enough and I see you point. But I don't think Parise and Suter make us favorites for the cup or anything. Do they give us a better chance? Sure. But who knows what would happen with the rest of our players. A lot of them have been showing signs of age and declining numbers wise. I think it will be very hard to convince two star players to potentially sign over the remainder of their careers to us when the future is so uncertain. I say uncertain because I think we all saw how old we looked in that series against Nashville this year. They beat us by winning races to pucks and being faster and quicker in general. I think age is definitely showing, and the prospect pool is less than exciting if you ask me. Smith is the closest thing we have to a sure thing and even he could slip to be only a middle/bottom pairing NHL defenseman. You can only preach the history of the organization for so long before top FA's are going to start asking questions about the future. Excuse me for being unpopular but if I was a top FA making possibly the most important decision of my life I'm going to want a little more than "don't worry, we've figured it out in the past, it'll all work out again somehow..."

I mean the history is great but the only appeal it would have to me is that I'd be part of a storied organization. But if I'm looking for a place to call home for the next 7-8 years, I don't really give a rats ass about what happened 10 years ago when I was still in high school. I want to know that we're going to be strong competitors for all those years. Ideally, I'd sign with a team that can win a little bit now and only get better as time goes on by inserting prospects into the lineup and sprinkling in other FA's if need be. Ken Holland is going to have a tougher sell job than you think IMO.

#48 xtrememachine1

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:41 AM

You can only preach the history of the organization for so long before top FA's are going to start asking questions about the future. Excuse me for being unpopular but if I was a top FA making possibly the most important decision of my life I'm going to want a little more than "don't worry, we've figured it out in the past, it'll all work out again somehow..."

I mean the history is great but the only appeal it would have to me is that I'd be part of a storied organization. But if I'm looking for a place to call home for the next 7-8 years, I don't really give a rats ass about what happened 10 years ago when I was still in high school. I want to know that we're going to be strong competitors for all those years. Ideally, I'd sign with a team that can win a little bit now and only get better as time goes on by inserting prospects into the lineup and sprinkling in other FA's if need be. Ken Holland is going to have a tougher sell job than you think IMO.


Just as an FYI, this franchise has been a winning for almost as long as these guys have been alive, so its been a little more than just 10 years. The Wings have been consistently winning and there's a reason for that. We have one of the best, if not, the best owner in hockey. He's willing to spend money and wants to be competitive, year in, year out. We have a fantastic front office that's made some remarkable trades and free agent signings to keep the team competitive all these years. We have one of the best group of scouts in the league. Despite all of their winning in the late 90's and early 2000's and drafting near the bottom of the first round (if in that round at all) built a new championship caliber team through the draft. No other franchise has all this in place. No other franchise can claim they won the Cup multiple times while at the same time built a new championship team through the draft to replace the players that retire. If you can't trust the Wings organization enough to sign with them, who can you trust? Who can you trust to be competitive for the next 5-8 years? Every other team in the league has rebuilt, fell apart and rebuilt again, while the Wings have consistently remained near the top. History should be a selling point. History tells them that this franchise knows what they're doing when it comes to building a winner and staying competitive.

#49 Nightfall

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:06 AM

Fair, but neither player is legitimately worth more than 7 million. I would argue that to the death. But I know this is a thin crop of free agents so their value skyrockets (but teams will eventually catch on, and won't risk f*cking their teams for centuries to come by overpaying.

I think you will find that Parise will get a $7 million dollar offer or two. Suter may well get a $6 million dollar offer. Hell, when Rafalski signed here for $5 million per season, he was offered $6 million to play for the devils.

I do agree with you that neither player is worth more than $7 million. I can also say that Holland won't offer either player $7 million. He will probably go $6 million at the most for Parise and around $5.5 million for Suter. If they want to play here, they will take a discount and play here. Otherwise, they can go to the bank of (insert team name here) like Khabibulin did.
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#50 centcougar07

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:37 AM

Just as an FYI, this franchise has been a winning for almost as long as these guys have been alive, so its been a little more than just 10 years. The Wings have been consistently winning and there's a reason for that. We have one of the best, if not, the best owner in hockey. He's willing to spend money and wants to be competitive, year in, year out. We have a fantastic front office that's made some remarkable trades and free agent signings to keep the team competitive all these years. We have one of the best group of scouts in the league. Despite all of their winning in the late 90's and early 2000's and drafting near the bottom of the first round (if in that round at all) built a new championship caliber team through the draft. No other franchise has all this in place. No other franchise can claim they won the Cup multiple times while at the same time built a new championship team through the draft to replace the players that retire. If you can't trust the Wings organization enough to sign with them, who can you trust? Who can you trust to be competitive for the next 5-8 years? Every other team in the league has rebuilt, fell apart and rebuilt again, while the Wings have consistently remained near the top. History should be a selling point. History tells them that this franchise knows what they're doing when it comes to building a winner and staying competitive.


I'd rather go to a team that has a more solid future. Something tangible that I can see in front of me. Not just a promise that we "know what we're doing" because we were able to reload once before. Not good enough for me to sign away 6-7 years of my life.

#51 Doc Holliday

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:05 AM

Fair enough and I see you point. But I don't think Parise and Suter make us favorites for the cup or anything. Do they give us a better chance? Sure. But who knows what would happen with the rest of our players. A lot of them have been showing signs of age and declining numbers wise. I think it will be very hard to convince two star players to potentially sign over the remainder of their careers to us when the future is so uncertain. I say uncertain because I think we all saw how old we looked in that series against Nashville this year. They beat us by winning races to pucks and being faster and quicker in general. I think age is definitely showing, and the prospect pool is less than exciting if you ask me. Smith is the closest thing we have to a sure thing and even he could slip to be only a middle/bottom pairing NHL defenseman. You can only preach the history of the organization for so long before top FA's are going to start asking questions about the future. Excuse me for being unpopular but if I was a top FA making possibly the most important decision of my life I'm going to want a little more than "don't worry, we've figured it out in the past, it'll all work out again somehow..."

First, I didn't say it would make them "favorites". I said it would make them contenders. There are 8 or 9 contenders but only a couple favorites. Also, the future of the Red Wings isn't more uncertain than any team in the league.

The Pittsburgh Penguins with Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Fleury, and Letang? Two first round exits in a row.
The Philadelphia Flyers with Giroux, Hartnell, JVR, etc.? Two second round exits in a row and without their top defenseman for the remainder of his career.
The St. Louis Blues? Nobody knows how they will bounce back from their amazing regular season run after such a weak playoff performance.
The San Jose Sharks? After signing Burns and Havlat while giving up Heatley and Seto, they were primed for a lengthy cup run, only to squeak in at 7th place and lose in 5 the first round. Niemi has been brutal and that is a huge issue with the club, as well as some of their defensive elements.
The Vancouver Canucks? With Luongo out, how will Schneider deal with the impact? How will their top players perform after such disappointing years?
The Boston Bruins? First round exit to a defensive Washington Capitals team with their top defenseman and goaltender getting older.
The New Jersey Devils? Their top goaltender only has a year or two left in him, and their financial situation is uncertain.
The Nashville Predators? They may be seeing a lot of turnover with a team that put all their finances into a long playoff run only to see it fizzle out in the second round. Radulov is likely gone, Suter may be gone, the K brothers may have issues with the team and Trotz, and this team once again showed they cannot make a deep run in the playoffs no matter the roster.
The New York Rangers? I sincerely doubt they will be making a play for Parise based on the number of high priced offensive guys they have and their younger players who will need to get paid in the future.
The Chicago Blackhawks? Kane is a cancer, Crawford isn't as good as envisioned, their defense has been atrocious, and they have been victim to two first round exits in a row.

Sure, the Wings have uncertainties, but so does every team in the league.

I mean the history is great but the only appeal it would have to me is that I'd be part of a storied organization. But if I'm looking for a place to call home for the next 7-8 years, I don't really give a rats ass about what happened 10 years ago when I was still in high school. I want to know that we're going to be strong competitors for all those years. Ideally, I'd sign with a team that can win a little bit now and only get better as time goes on by inserting prospects into the lineup and sprinkling in other FA's if need be. Ken Holland is going to have a tougher sell job than you think IMO.


Stop talking about history as if the discussion is about decades ago. I'm talking about recent history. And your specific wants and desires aren't that of Zach Parise or Ryan Suter. Suter is looking for a team that can contend (which Nashville doesn't seem like they have shown that based on not being able to improve after their busy trade deadline acquisitions), and Parise is unsure of his future based on the finances of the Devils.

Few teams can boast about consistent recent success like the Red Wings can, and few can boast being able to pay these guys the money they deserve like the Red Wings can. They are the 4th most valuable franchise in the league for a reason.

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#52 xtrememachine1

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:09 AM

I'd rather go to a team that has a more solid future. Something tangible that I can see in front of me. Not just a promise that we "know what we're doing" because we were able to reload once before. Not good enough for me to sign away 6-7 years of my life.


Answer me this then, who has a solid, tangible future in front of them? Vancouver? The team that's getting rid of their franchise goalie? How about Pittsburgh? No cap space. Chicago? Since winning that one Cup, a team which was loaded with talent thanks to entry level contract for Keith, Toews and Kane, hasn't made it out of the first round. SJ? Choke acts every year. Washington? They couldn't be in more disarray with coaching and player personnel. Boston? Thomas and Chara are both over 35 and those are some big shoes to fill. I know in other post, you mentioned Minnesota and its prospects. Prospects are far from something tangible and certain. They could end up all being colossal busts. I remember back in the mid 90's people talking about how great the Senators are going to be someday with those two centers Daigle and Yashin. They were "can't miss prospects". My point is if you don't trust the franchise that's been doing it better than anyone else over the past 20 years, who can you trust?

EDIT: Seriously, Doc Holliday's post wasn't up yet when I started to write mine. lol

Edited by xtrememachine1, 25 May 2012 - 11:13 AM.


#53 pucktividi

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:37 AM


Few teams can boast about consistent recent success like the Red Wings can, and few can boast being able to pay these guys the money they deserve like the Red Wings can. They are the 4th most valuable franchise in the league for a reason.


...and according to the NHL players,the 2nd most desirable franchise to play for,again for a reason

#54 Johnz96

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:44 AM

First, I didn't say it would make them "favorites". I said it would make them contenders. There are 8 or 9 contenders but only a couple favorites. Also, the future of the Red Wings isn't more uncertain than any team in the league.

The Pittsburgh Penguins with Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Fleury, and Letang? Two first round exits in a row.
The Philadelphia Flyers with Giroux, Hartnell, JVR, etc.? Two second round exits in a row and without their top defenseman for the remainder of his career.
The St. Louis Blues? Nobody knows how they will bounce back from their amazing regular season run after such a weak playoff performance.
The San Jose Sharks? After signing Burns and Havlat while giving up Heatley and Seto, they were primed for a lengthy cup run, only to squeak in at 7th place and lose in 5 the first round. Niemi has been brutal and that is a huge issue with the club, as well as some of their defensive elements.
The Vancouver Canucks? With Luongo out, how will Schneider deal with the impact? How will their top players perform after such disappointing years?
The Boston Bruins? First round exit to a defensive Washington Capitals team with their top defenseman and goaltender getting older.
The New Jersey Devils? Their top goaltender only has a year or two left in him, and their financial situation is uncertain.
The Nashville Predators? They may be seeing a lot of turnover with a team that put all their finances into a long playoff run only to see it fizzle out in the second round. Radulov is likely gone, Suter may be gone, the K brothers may have issues with the team and Trotz, and this team once again showed they cannot make a deep run in the playoffs no matter the roster.
The New York Rangers? I sincerely doubt they will be making a play for Parise based on the number of high priced offensive guys they have and their younger players who will need to get paid in the future.
The Chicago Blackhawks? Kane is a cancer, Crawford isn't as good as envisioned, their defense has been atrocious, and they have been victim to two first round exits in a row.

Sure, the Wings have uncertainties, but so does every team in the league.



Stop talking about history as if the discussion is about decades ago. I'm talking about recent history. And your specific wants and desires aren't that of Zach Parise or Ryan Suter. Suter is looking for a team that can contend (which Nashville doesn't seem like they have shown that based on not being able to improve after their busy trade deadline acquisitions), and Parise is unsure of his future based on the finances of the Devils.

Few teams can boast about consistent recent success like the Red Wings can, and few can boast being able to pay these guys the money they deserve like the Red Wings can. They are the 4th most valuable franchise in the league for a reason.

The Wings WERE contenders this year and will be next year with or without any moves

#55 Doc Holliday

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:46 AM

The Wings WERE contenders this year and will be next year with or without any moves


I personally don't believe that, but to each his own.

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#56 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:50 AM

The Red Wings used to be the guy who walked into a bar and always left with the hottest chick. Then they became the guy who would leave with a very good looking chick but not the hottest one. Now they have become the guy who leaves with a decent looking chick with a nice personality who is a bit psycho. The next step is to leave with the chick who sits at the end of the bar who is ugly as sin but who looks good after 10 boilermakers. Please Kenny. Make our Red Wings able to pick up the hottest chick at the bar again.
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#57 Johnz96

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:08 PM

The Red Wings used to be the guy who walked into a bar and always left with the hottest chick. Then they became the guy who would leave with a very good looking chick but not the hottest one. Now they have become the guy who leaves with a decent looking chick with a nice personality who is a bit psycho. The next step is to leave with the chick who sits at the end of the bar who is ugly as sin but who looks good after 10 boilermakers. Please Kenny. Make our Red Wings able to pick up the hottest chick at the bar again.


How did they make out with the chicks in the bar from 98-02 and 02 -08?

Edited by Johnz96, 25 May 2012 - 12:10 PM.


#58 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:10 PM

How did they make out with the chicks in the bar from 98-02 and 02 -07?


They picked them up at the bar and had 1 night stands with them and then called Jiri Hudler's hookers for good measure.
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#59 sleepwalker

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:52 PM

The Red Wings used to be the guy who walked into a bar and always left with the hottest chick. Then they became the guy who would leave with a very good looking chick but not the hottest one. Now they have become the guy who leaves with a decent looking chick with a nice personality who is a bit psycho. The next step is to leave with the chick who sits at the end of the bar who is ugly as sin but who looks good after 10 boilermakers. Please Kenny. Make our Red Wings able to pick up the hottest chick at the bar again.




Did you mean a bit chubby?

Isn't "nice personality" and "psycho" a complete contradiction? I mean, unless you are a sociopathic psychotic yourself and think of psychos as having "nice personalitites", lol.



But I digress...

#60 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 01:02 PM

Did you mean a bit chubby?

Isn't "nice personality" and "psycho" a complete contradiction? I mean, unless you are a sociopathic psychotic yourself and think of psychos as having "nice personalitites", lol.



But I digress...



After reading your response, I think you just described yourself. But I digress.
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams





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