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REDHASEK

Six teams on Nash's trade "list", none Canadian

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And then the trade centrepiece becomes a bag of pucks with Franzen on the side. :tounge:

In all seriousness, that's why I believe the most Kenny would give up is Franzen, Tatar, possibly an Andersson type player and a 2nd rounder. Just because Howson wants 4 players and a 1st rounder doesn't mean he's getting that overpayment from teams. None of the teams on Nash's list can afford to lose all their cup contending depth to get 1 guy. Like i said before, Howson is a complete derp!

I was actually referring to Ryan, but I agree with you

Thanks, that what I thought.

Wonder if Kenny's looked into Lucic. He's not officially on the block, but, like Ryan, his name has popped up now and then and here and there over the last couple of years.

Ooooooohhhh... now THAT'S intriguing...

This is what has been said for sure, Howson is asking for the sky and Murray just needs a fair return. However as remaining free agents drop and other trades happen this price surely goes up.

I think Ryan is a better option than Nash, if for no other reason than the fact that Howson is nuts

Edited by stevkrause

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Thanks, that what I thought.

Wonder if Kenny's looked into Lucic. He's not officially on the block, but, like Ryan, his name has popped up now and then and here and there over the last couple of years.

I could see Lucic being a good fit here too, always liked watching him play.

Rick D likes this

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This is what has been said for sure, Howson is asking for the sky and Murray just needs a fair return. However as remaining free agents drop and other trades happen this price surely goes up.

Edit: The fact TSN threw in ";NONE ARE CANADIAN" is a joke grasping for straws after the other Nash deal in Toronto fell apart. What Canadian NHL hockey team would Rick Nash want to play for TSN? Seriously...

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Franzen, one of our top 2/3 prospects, and a first. Filppula should not be included, UNLESS the BJ are willing to take him as is (last year of contract) and you make it clear to Valtteri that this is a business move for the team and if he gets to UFA next season, he'll be back in the Winged Wheel (maybe a stretch, since BJ would no doubt throw the kitchen sink at him).

Losing Filppula +++ forever is not worth it in my opinion. Fil is one of three forwards last season who showed up every single game. He is a great center, true, but last season played almost the entire season at wing and both increased production and made Zetterberg's line dangerous by shouldering some of the load. He is an obvious character player who is well-liked, and some have suggested him on the cusp of alternative captain. From what I've heard he seems like the Kronwall type of leader, and what I've seen on the ice, Filppula + would be a lateral move for more goal-scoring, and Filppula +++ would be an overpayment (in my opinion).

Rick Nash is a better player than Filppula, but does he have a better future than Filppula, Smith, Nyquist, and our 1st (one suggested scenario)?

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Nash deal is going to be drawn out forever. Having said that Ryan is a better option than Nash for us in all ways, shapes and forms. Like people have said it's going to come down to what package size with the least amount of assets it will take for us to land either one of them. And without selling the farm too will be tricky. Without a doubt Pittsburgh, NYR and Philly will likely be wanting to trade too. Who is going to offer for Nash and Ryan the best packaged deal? Hmmmmm I don't know what assets Pittsburgh, the Rags and Philly have to offer. Regardless trades for Nash and Ryan IF they do happen might not happen until Semin and Doan are signed.

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They'd be smart to trade him for a reasonable return before he demands a trade and threatens to sit out, because that's almost the direction I see this going... and the day that occurs, the offers go down...

I'm confused what you mean by sit out? If he's under contract he can't just sit out can he? Breach of contract which would do him absolutely no good at all. He can F the dog every game until they trade him but he can't just stay at home and eat pizza lol.

Does anyone else find is slightly alarming that this guy doesn't want to play in any Canadian cities because he doesn't want to be under the microscope? Look at his list of teams that he gave except for San Jose all the teams listed are huge hockey markets where he will be under the microscope just as much as he would be in a Canadian city.

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This is what has been said for sure, Howson is asking for the sky and Murray just needs a fair return. However as remaining free agents drop and other trades happen this price surely goes up.

Originally yes, but not anymore. Ana is now demanding basically the same as Nash maybe even worst. They don't NEED to move him, and if they are they said you needed to blow them out of the water. Similar to how Nash is running right now, except we would be dealing with a division rival and that would make getting Nash even harder than Ryan. For Detroit, Nash would be harder to get than Ryan.

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I have been saying this....Fil, Mursak, Tatar, 2nd is more than a fine offer for Ryan...

Ryan should be the first target, then a more expensive Nash if they cannot get Ryan. One thing for sure, if they get either one, it'll make Doans decision easier....and Weber's....

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Fil, Mursak, Tatar, 2nd is more than a fine offer for Ryan...

This is insane. Fil outscored both Nash and Ryan last season by a healthy margin, yet people are still talking about trading Filppula plus multiple other high level picks/prospects for either one of them. Trading Filppula at this point for either one of them is a lateral move. At the very least, removing Filppula while adding either one of them isn't a significant enough improvement to our top 6 to make me cry.

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I have been saying this....Fil, Mursak, Tatar, 2nd is more than a fine offer for Ryan...

Ryan should be the first target, then a more expensive Nash if they cannot get Ryan. One thing for sure, if they get either one, it'll make Doans decision easier....and Weber's....

This is insane. Fil outscored both Nash and Ryan last season by a healthy margin, yet people are still talking about trading Filppula plus multiple other high level picks/prospects for either one of them. Trading Filppula at this point for either one of them is a lateral move. At the very least, removing Filppula while adding either one of them isn't a significant enough improvement to our top 6 to make me cry.

I can't believe some of the packages people are willing to live with including Filppula. Great defensive forward, natural center but can produce near 70 pts at wing. Makes his own chances and improves his linemates. I have an idea: package him with two prospects and picks for similar production, less familiarity and guaranteed chemistry on/off ice, but more goal-scoring!

I don't understand why we would be so afraid of Semin who could easily outscore Ryan on Datsyuk's wing and cost us only cap-space (which we have a load of). Semin's attitude on a veteran team with character like the Wings is worse than losing a character guy in Filppula, plus picks and prospects? And for Nash we'll have to give up even more.

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Even if Howson's insane demands come down, they are still always going to be highest for the Red Wings. I just don't see the Red Wings able or willing to pay the steep price unless all other options are off the table.

This is why I wish the Red Wings would make a harder push for Semin, especially if he would only sign a one-year deal. No assets given up and then you can try and swing a deal still for a quality d-man.

Trading for Nash is sending out someone from the top-six. The Red Wings already need to add in that area without losing someone like Fil.

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This is insane. Fil outscored both Nash and Ryan last season by a healthy margin, yet people are still talking about trading Filppula plus multiple other high level picks/prospects for either one of them. Trading Filppula at this point for either one of them is a lateral move. At the very least, removing Filppula while adding either one of them isn't a significant enough improvement to our top 6 to make me cry.

Filppula had 23 goals and 66 points on the Wings. Ryan had 31 goals and 57 points for the Ducks.

That's not a wide margin, and the Ducks were pretty awful.

Ryan is 25 years old, 6'2" and 210 lbs. He's put up 30+ goals four straight seasons. The only year he hasn't is his rookie year when he played 23 games.

Flip is 28 years old, has never scored more than 23 goals and this was a career year for him with 66 points. Every other season he's had 40 points or less. Honestly it'd be hard to lose Filppula, but I think bringing in Ryan and losing him could still be an upgrade more than a lateral move.

I'm mostly referring to the upgrade part, not the package to get Ryan. Flip plus a couple prospects and a pick seems overpayment.

Especially since the Ducks have dangled Ryan so many times now they've basically soured their relationship with him.

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I was actually referring to Ryan, but I agree with you

Ooooooohhhh... now THAT'S intriguing...

I think Ryan is a better option than Nash, if for no other reason than the fact that Howson is nuts

Big difference in cap hits too

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Big difference in cap hits too

Agreed.

It's probably partly influenced by my never really liking Nash, but it seems like for Columbus to trade him to a team in their own division, the Wings would have to give up a ridiculous amount to acquire him.

Hockey reasons aside, even just from a public relations standpoint it would be a nightmare for the Blue Jackets to trade Nash to Detroit. It'd be hard to find a better way to piss off the fans. Yes, I know the Hawks did it with Chelios, but as bad as the BJ's are, I don't know if they're really as dysfunctional as the Blackhawks organization was back then.

hillbillywingsfan likes this

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Originally yes, but not anymore. Ana is now demanding basically the same as Nash maybe even worst.

Link?

I can't believe some of the packages people are willing to live with including Filppula. Great defensive forward, natural center but can produce near 70 pts at wing. Makes his own chances and improves his linemates. I have an idea: package him with two prospects and picks for similar production, less familiarity and guaranteed chemistry on/off ice, but more goal-scoring!

I don't understand why we would be so afraid of Semin who could easily outscore Ryan on Datsyuk's wing and cost us only cap-space (which we have a load of). Semin's attitude on a veteran team with character like the Wings is worse than losing a character guy in Filppula, plus picks and prospects? And for Nash we'll have to give up even more.

Ryan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Semin

Edited by Dabura

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Honestly it'd be hard to lose Filppula, but I think bringing in Ryan and losing him could still be an upgrade more than a lateral move.

It would be a slight upgrade offensively, but that's it. Worse defensively. I'd love to trade for Ryan, but if the only way is to give up Filppula, it's not worth it IMO. Our team would be WAY better if we found a way to trade for him without losing Filppula (or Franzen, for that matter). I want Holland to ADD peices into our top six, not replace them with players only marginally better at best.

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Ryan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Semin

Based on? Ryan > Semin. Ryan << Semin, Filppula, Mursak, Tatar, 2nd (one recent suggestion)

Edited by b.shanafan14

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It would be a slight upgrade offensively, but that's it. Worse defensively. I'd love to trade for Ryan, but if the only way is to give up Filppula, it's not worth it IMO. Our team would be WAY better if we found a way to trade for him without losing Filppula (or Franzen, for that matter). I want Holland to ADD peices into our top six, not replace them with players only marginally better at best.

I completely agree, and I cannot understand the obsession with Nash or Ryan, as far as what we'd have to give up. At this point, our REAL need is on defense, so we should be looking at adding a couple UFA's or trading for Yandle, Bouwmeester, or Boyle, etc..

I like our offensive options, we were tops in the league last season, offensively, and won't be that far behind this year. Of course, this depends on defensive offense as well (Kronwall, Quincey, White, and Smith all need to pull together and put up decent offensive numbers, which I fully believe they can and will).

Kronwall - 15 goals, 35 assists

Quincey - 6 goals, 33 assists

White - 5 goals, 23 assists

Smith - 9 goals, 34 assists

Edited by SwedeLundin77

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It would be a slight upgrade offensively, but that's it. Worse defensively. I'd love to trade for Ryan, but if the only way is to give up Filppula, it's not worth it IMO. Our team would be WAY better if we found a way to trade for him without losing Filppula (or Franzen, for that matter). I want Holland to ADD peices into our top six, not replace them with players only marginally better at best.

And if we are giving up Flip, Tatar and a pick to a team that doesn't even want Ryan, which is an overpayment, i would want Smith-Pelley with Ryan. We discount Flip way too much around here. And the reason he was getting an avg of 40 pts per year is because he was generally 3rd line C. put him on Z's wing for a year and he gets 66 pts.....guy has game! I would trade Franzen and a pick for Ryan, but not Flip. In my eyes, he's more valuable than Ryan now and if anyone disagrees, look at the stats. Ryan's on a line with either of Getzlaf, Perry or Selanne too, so for those who say the Ducks are a bad team, they still have great scoring forwards there, they just have crappy D.

Z and D for the C likes this

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Based on? Ryan > Semin. Ryan <<< Semin, Filppula, Mursak, Tatar, 2nd (one recent suggestion)

Semin can score. When he feels compelled to.

That's it.

He's lazy, underachieving, soft, plays weak-at-best D, etc.

Ryan is good for at least 30 goals, guaranteed (barring injury). He's a physical power-forward. He hits. He plays a good two-way game. He blocks shots. He's got great hands. He's 25.

Every other team in the NHL has the Wings' top-sixers figured out (or, at least, they know in theory what you need to do to shut them down). Box them out to the perimeter, rush and rattle them, take away their time and space, outmuscle them. We need a guy (or two) who's going to help fix that by giving our top-6 a new dimension (or two). Semin would be content to take shots from the perimeter, just like all our current "scorers." True, he's got a great shot, but I'd prefer a guy who'll bulldoze through the front door instead of slinging pebbles at the windows.

I like Flip. But I'm not sure why so many here would sooner sacrifice their first-born child to Satan than see Flip traded.

"Crosby, Malkin, and Eric Staal for Franzen - ok. But only if it's Franzen. If they're asking for Filppula - forget it. He is a wing for life. He has [glittertext]Alternate Captain Potential[/glittertext]."

I'm not trying to get down on the guy. It's just, Filppula + a couple prospects + a pick is absolutely worth it for Bobby Ryan (provided Smith isn't one of the prospects. Though even then I'd at least consider it.)

Edited by Dabura
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Just because we are on Nash's trade list, doesn't mean we are on Columbus' trade list. I'm skeptical that they'll want to do business with us and on whether Holland would be willing to put what it takes on the line to get him. He seems to trade for players with intangibles or those who meet a specific team need.

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The Bleacher report had an interesting take on a Nash vs Ryan trade I think. I found one thing quite odd though. It downplayed the fact that Ryan had much better line mates than Nash, something that I think would probably top the other arguments mentioned, except one maybe, and that is the high price a Nash trade would command given that Columbus is a division rival. On the other side, I'm not sure Ryan would be much cheaper when all is said and done. That is, If Ryan is available at all. There seems to be two sides to that story.

Put on a line with Datsyuk I think Nash would be a 50 goal scorer, but I'm not so sure Ryan's production would increase that much. In the end, I'd be just as happy -be it Nash or Ryan. .

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