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uk_redwing

[Retired] Official Lockout Thread

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I agree with you to an extent. Bettman and the owners really have dug themselves a deep hole here. At the same time, there has to be some unity or cooperation between the NHLPA and the NHL. The NFL, MLB, and NBA leagues and the players associations in those leagues all work together when expanding or moving a franchise. In the NHL, there is a disconnect. Is that Bettman's fault? Is that Goodenow's fault? Is that Fehr's fault? Maybe it is the fault of both sides? I really don't know. All I do know is that without this level of cooperation and unity, the league is going to suffer.

The leagues missteps are well documented, but how about the NHLPA waiting until June to negotiate when the league asked them to come to the table in January? I know, fans of the NHLPA will look at that as no problem since no deal has been made yet, but I see it as a lack of respect or cooperation at least. I could name other issues here, but I won't go into detail. The point is that we need unity between the NHLPA and the NHL. Maybe Bettman is the problem. Maybe its time to ditch him and get another leader for the league and that will improve things. Maybe its a culture change as a whole for both sides. Something does need to be done though.

Especially if you don't have one.

In January the players were too busy working on making the playoffs to negotiate.

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Yeah! Let's take the advice of an internet warrior rather than teams of people with MBA's and extensive knowledge of the league, TV contracts, and business.

frankgrimes says your team is unsustainable, Mr. Yzerman, so you're fired so Moosejaw Saskatchewan can have an NHL team.

How do you know that frankgrimes doesn't have an MBA?

Here is someone who does

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lockout/2012/09/13/nhl_lockout_cba_betmann_bad_for_business/

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Still have not discussed core HRR issues. I want to be optimistic, but if all they're going to do is talk about player safety and health insurance for players this might be a very long lock out

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Of course they aren't prepared to do that in January, they're in the middle of the season! They're playing games! Typical Bettman and Daly, trying to pass the blame to the players even more. Nothing's ever their fault, it's always someone else.

I suppose thats one way to look at it.

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It's the only way to look at it.

Is Sochi 2014 being discussed, or is that going to be a separate circus?

Uncle Gary sez: you get the Olympics, we get a bigger percentage.

I can smell it coming.

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It's the only way to look at it.

Is Sochi 2014 being discussed, or is that going to be a separate circus?

Uncle Gary sez: you get the Olympics, we get a bigger percentage.

I can smell it coming.

I wondered if this was a factor in Bettman's refusal to use the option to play this season on the old CBA. Not all of the players will be going to the Olympics, or even competing for a spot on their country's team, but those that are are quite influential.

I would think that the threat of a lockout during the year of the Olympics would be less of a threat, at least to those who have a great desire to play, than the threat of the lockout extending into a second year.

It wouldn't be the be-all and end-all, but it could be a factor used as leverage in negotiation.

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It's the only way to look at it.

Is Sochi 2014 being discussed, or is that going to be a separate circus?

Uncle Gary sez: you get the Olympics, we get a bigger percentage.

I can smell it coming.

Not in my view.

The NHLPA and the NHL could have started meeting in January to go through everything except the financials. They could have talked realignment. They could have discussed drug testing. Even the financials for the last 4-5 years could have been discussed. Middle of the season or not, the NHLPA drug its feet and waited until the last minute to start negotiations.

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Here's a somewhat dry but pretty good explanation of how Hockey Related Revenue makes things more complicated than they seem. It's not as simple as figuring out how much total revenue was generated and giving the players 57% of it. The players are already getting a reduced share.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2012/09/making-sense-of-hockey-related-revenue.html

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Yeah, the league was willing to negotiate in January just like they were willing to negotiate on Sep. 15 to prevent the lockout.

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Here's a somewhat dry but pretty good explanation of how Hockey Related Revenue makes things more complicated than they seem. It's not as simple as figuring out how much total revenue was generated and giving the players 57% of it. The players are already getting a reduced share.

http://www.cbc.ca/sp...ed-revenue.html

Here is a quote from this article which covers the current state of affairs.

With the National Hockey League wanting player costs to drop immediately and the NHL Players' Association proposing instead to slow salaries against revenue growth, we're at an impasse. And the overwhelming answer to a question about how the gap can be bridged?

"I don't know."

But the majority opinion from people on both sides of the argument is this: there's no incentive for anyone to back down now and when they are ready for serious conversations, they (initially, at least) will be kept private.

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Not in my view.

The NHLPA and the NHL could have started meeting in January to go through everything except the financials. They could have talked realignment. They could have discussed drug testing. Even the financials for the last 4-5 years could have been discussed. Middle of the season or not, the NHLPA drug its feet and waited until the last minute to start negotiations.

"Don Fehr obviously being somewhat new to the job is going through a bit of a learning curve and wants to make sure he understands what his constituents want. And so, we're patient. I'm not concerned about the time frame."

You know who said that? Uncle Gary, in January.

...the NHLPA drug...

Freudian slip?

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You know who said that? Uncle Gary, in January.

Neither side was concerned about the time frame. I guess they were both wrong.

Yeah, the league was willing to negotiate in January just like they were willing to negotiate on Sep. 15 to prevent the lockout.

So, your argument was that you didn't believe it. So we provide proof that the league was ready to negotiate early, and this is your response. I really try to take what the NHL and NHLPA say at face value. I guess I don't understand how some people can take what one side says as the truth while taking what the other side says as false.

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From TSN:

NHL labour talks are set to resume Tuesday morning, with discussions focusing on hockey-related revenue and not the core economic issues that continue to divide the two sides in a league-imposed lockout entering its third week.

A person familiar with negotiations, on Monday, provided the details of what was expected to be discussed at the meeting that will be held in New York. The person spoke on the condition of anonymity because the NHL and the NHL Players' Association have not issued an update on talks.

The person added there are currently no other meetings planned beyond Tuesday.

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even though the meeting may not directly address the core economic issues, sorting out exactly what constitutes Hockey Related Revenue is obviously critical to negotiating the percentages of it.

Bettman already tried to pull a fast one by reducing the players share of HRR while also reducing what constitutes HRR. Now that he's been called out on it, it's nice that they're actually going to define what it is they're trying to divide between the two sides.

Can't they just treat it like a cookie and do the old parent trick where one kid gets to split it into two pieces and the other gets to pick which piece they get? That process is elegantly simple in dividing something equitably.

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Negotiations starting in January would not have prevented this lockout.

There is no way we will ever know. Point is that the lack of urgency on one side does not excuse the behavior or attitude. I believe that negotiating early would not have hurt.

Can't they just treat it like a cookie and do the old parent trick where one kid gets to split it into two pieces and the other gets to pick which piece they get? That process is elegantly simple in dividing something equitably.

I agree.

They should just get a mother to come in and split everything evenly for them. A professional mother negotiator. :D

Edited by Nightfall
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even though the meeting may not directly address the core economic issues, sorting out exactly what constitutes Hockey Related Revenue is obviously critical to negotiating the percentages of it.

Bettman already tried to pull a fast one by reducing the players share of HRR while also reducing what constitutes HRR. Now that he's been called out on it, it's nice that they're actually going to define what it is they're trying to divide between the two sides.

Can't they just treat it like a cookie and do the old parent trick where one kid gets to split it into two pieces and the other gets to pick which piece they get? That process is elegantly simple in dividing something equitably.

I actually like that idea...probably won't work since both kids want to split the cookie and pick one themselves.

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Uncle Gary has already established a propensity to "lock the door"; this round of negotiating would not have been any different. The owners "love" him.

I read in the today's Toronto Star that season ticket sales for the AHL's Toronto Marlies will increase about 74% and attendance will be up about 15% over last seasons figures.

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From TSN:

The NHL and NHL Players' Association ended two hours of talks on Tuesday in New York, with no progress made after a session focusing on hockey-related revenue.

"No progress to report," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told reporters after the meeting. "No progress was made. Unless they show some willingness to compromise, I don't know how we get this done.""

No further meetings between the two sides have been planned.

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