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uk_redwing

[Retired] Official Lockout Thread

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I believe its less about pride and self respect. If there was pride and self respect on the line, the players association would have been negotiating in January. If pride and self respect were on the line, then the players association wouldn't be playing the PR role to a T. Lets face facts here, Don Fehr dragged his feet to the start of negotiations, then he drug his feet before he put forward his initial proposal. Fehr wants there to be revenue sharing, and I can understand why the owners don't want the deal based on what revenues could be. Now, the NHL has given the players a new proposal, and Don Fehr won't "play ping pong" and doesn't believe he needs to give the next proposal.

Lets face facts here, the owners are asking for too much. By locking the players out, they are damaging the game of hockey and future revenues. At the same time, and others have said, they feel they have no choice.

I know I have said it before, but I will say it again....

Both sides are in the wrong here. This should have never resulted in a lockout. All the owners have to do is come up a little from their demands, and all the players have to do is come down a little from their demands. As many have said here, its a game of chicken. Who will blink first?

I am not waiting around for either side to blink. Both sides can go jump off a cliff.

You know, the sooner you let go of an idea that owners and (to a somewhat lesser degree) players are anything but two rational economic actors that behave strategically in order to maximize their respective incomes, the less nerves you will burn up thinking about this. They do not and are not really expected to care about the fans feelings, as long as the fans keep buying tix, and otherwise spending money on NHL product.. And as the 3 previous work stoppages have amply demonstrated, we fans are really that dumb and will grumble a bit, but come back and support the NHL, whenever they decide to play hockey again.

So your idea, that with different negotiating teams and/or more time, the compromise would have been found, is not plausible. Personalities and negotiating tactics are determined by the strategic goals, not the other way around. In other words, the players hired Fehr to do exactly what he is doing, and the owners pay Bettman to do exactly what he does. If either side wanted a compromise, they would have behaved differently.

From what we've seen so far, the owners are trying to crush the PA yet again, and the players are determined to not be crushed like it happened the last time. At the very least, the players want to make the owners victory so costly, that the owners may hesitate to do this again in the future. Both sides are following thought out strategies, and I don't see a quick resolution, unless something fundamental changes.

haroldsnepsts and Nightfall like this

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Sure they can. The owners can lock out the players any time they want. That's what it means to be an owner.

Is it a good tactic, no, but they can absolutely call a lockout whenever they see fit, and nothing is going to take that power away from them.

As soon as enough Dan Cleary and Cal Clutterbuck types that don't have the option of signing a lucrative deal in Europe start missing paychecks, you're going to start seeing cracks on the NHLPA side.

We can take that power away from them

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It would appears that just like the NHL this thread has reached an impasse. Maybe if we would have started to argue in January we would be done by now.

You only mention this because you know damn well that we were too busy rootin on the Wings record home streak in January to have carried on any sort of serious argument such as this at that time

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...

I am not waiting around for either side to blink. Both sides can go jump off a cliff.

Can we push them off the cliff??? Please???

Since I love messing around with numbers...they are talking about $100M lost in revenue due to the cancellation of pre-season games. This equals 3% of the annual revenue. So in other words...the players already lost 3% on their paycheck right now (first year only).

If they go for the proposed PA's 4-year deal, this would mean a lost percentage of around 0.7% based on a annual increase of 4% on total revenue.

Ofcourse these amounts are not huge comparing to the offer the league has put on the table, but salaries are already taking a cut with the lockout.

Hopefully financial details will be released during the lockout, so I can crunch the numbers.

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Every time I hear either side talk about this they're throwing little jabs. Come on boys, less chirping more bringing back my damn hockey!

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You know, the sooner you let go of an idea that owners and (to a somewhat lesser degree) players are anything but two rational economic actors that behave strategically in order to maximize their respective incomes, the less nerves you will burn up thinking about this. They do not and are not really expected to care about the fans feelings, as long as the fans keep buying tix, and otherwise spending money on NHL product.. And as the 3 previous work stoppages have amply demonstrated, we fans are really that dumb and will grumble a bit, but come back and support the NHL, whenever they decide to play hockey again.

So your idea, that with different negotiating teams and/or more time, the compromise would have been found, is not plausible. Personalities and negotiating tactics are determined by the strategic goals, not the other way around. In other words, the players hired Fehr to do exactly what he is doing, and the owners pay Bettman to do exactly what he does. If either side wanted a compromise, they would have behaved differently.

From what we've seen so far, the owners are trying to crush the PA yet again, and the players are determined to not be crushed like it happened the last time. At the very least, the players want to make the owners victory so costly, that the owners may hesitate to do this again in the future. Both sides are following thought out strategies, and I don't see a quick resolution, unless something fundamental changes.

I cannot like this post enough. Very good points.

I guess I am tired of the rhetoric from some people here just spouting off that the league is all at fault in this meanwhile standing behind the players. The players have played the PR card very well in these negotiations. Fehr needed to do it in order to get the fans on his side and put pressure on the ownership. I saw through it the moment that Fehr dragged his feet in negotiations and waited until June to even start negotiations. Now that he has the fans on his side, the players have carte blanche to fight the league. Of course, the ownership will get a lot of emails and letters from upset fans, but that won't curtail the strike or end it early.

I have been participating in the social media blitz against both sides. Yes, its true that I love hockey. It is also true that I won't spend a dime on merchandise, nhl center ice package, or nhl tickets for the next five years or so if we lose any regular season games. That seems to be a formality at this stage, but the point is both sides are going to understand that the only support I will be extending to the NHL will be watching the games on TV. Both sides need to understand that the rhetoric won't be tolerated. The NHL will come back, but it will be weaker because many fans won't be buying tickets anymore. Sure, many will return, but the amount of people who change their spending habits will have a greater impact. It is my goal to get more people on board with this idea.

True, I don't expect everyone to see things the way I do. That doesn't make our opinions more or less valid in the end. After all, this is a forum where we can voice our opinions. When the regular season starts back up, I intend to make my impact felt in some way.

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An NHL executive met with sponsors yesterday.

With the NHL on hold, sponsors have been forced to abandon plans to activate against the league and some have started channelling money into other projects. Typically, campaigns and product launches take months to pull together — posing a problem for league partners given the uncertainty brought on by the lockout.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=406703

That's a point of pressure on the ownership side I hadn't really thought about. Hopefully the sponsors are getting upset at this completely unnecessary lockout. And even if the season does resume, the league could potentially lose revenue because the sponsors will have reallocated it to other things.

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An NHL executive met with sponsors yesterday.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=406703

That's a point of pressure on the ownership side I hadn't really thought about. Hopefully the sponsors are getting upset at this completely unnecessary lockout. And even if the season does resume, the league could potentially lose revenue because the sponsors will have reallocated it to other things.

it sucks that nbc was dumb enough to pay the nhl 200 million dollars this season regardless if games are played or not

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@DarrenDreger: No surprise, but, the first chunk of NHL regular season games will be cancelled today.

Boo!!

This is good news for my wallet and for many years to come. I estimate I spend about $1500 on tickets, gas, and merchandise for the NHL in a year. With no more center ice, tickets, or merchandise for the next 5-6 years, I can take that money and spend it on something else. Preferably that isn't rife with greed or lack of compromise on the side of players and the league.

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Per Dreger...

Although, not official, it's expected the NHL will announce games from Oct 11 through Oct 24th have been cancelled.

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from NHL.com

NEW YORK -- The National Hockey League announced today the cancellation of the 2012-13 regular-season schedule through October 24. A total of 82 regular-season games were scheduled for Oct. 11 through Oct. 24.

The cancellation was necessary because of the absence of a Collective Bargaining Agreement between the NHL Players' Association and the NHL.

There was nothing about this that was necessary.

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Well, now we all know how Mike Commodore feels about Bettman...

...and Verizon Wireless...

Gary bettman loves #verizon. #verizonblows #thieves #liars

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I think Verizon is far more reliable and much less a pain in my ass than Uncle Gary.

I dunno, 3 lockouts in 3 chances for Uncle Gary. If that's not reliable and consistent, I don't know what is...

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I dunno, 3 lockouts in 3 chances for Uncle Gary. If that's not reliable and consistent, I don't know what is...

Ok, but you've gotta give me the pain in the ass points on that one...

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MOTHERf****** f***Sf****** f***ED HOCKEY. f***!

That was absolutely necessary for those around me. They are now safe. For one more day.

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MOTHERf****** f***Sf****** f***ED HOCKEY. f***!

That was absolutely necessary for those around me. They are now safe. For one more day.

Not sure, if this keeps up for long, if I will even support the NHL under Bettman. I know many here will be with me if they cancel the Winter Classic.

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Not sure, if this keeps up for long, if I will even support the NHL under Bettman. I know many here will be with me if they cancel the Winter Classic.

A relationship expert would tell you that if she cheats on you and you stay with her, you lose all her respect. And this Bettman/NHL ***** has already cheated on you 3 times now. It's time to end the relationship.

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A relationship expert would tell you that if she cheats on you and you stay with her, you lose all her respect. And this Bettman/NHL ***** has already cheated on you 3 times now. It's time to end the relationship.

BUT she's the hottest chic in school!

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