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Hockey13Playa

GM Ken Holland says Red Wings might not make playoffs this year

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Um, what name did I call this person?

You advised people to get back into the real world if they think Holland could get fired. I mean, we are discussing real world stuff - Red Wings Hockey - here.

Like I said I am saddened that some of the better owners (Dolan, Pegula, Mr. I, Aquilani, Snider) didn't speak out against this crap, I already don't like the new CBA, can't wait for some loopholes giving the Wings back some advantage.

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The pessimism is astounding. The shortened season is working against us? Why is it working against us more than everybody else? Because we are older? But you could argue that the short season benefits the older guys and that the younger guys have less time to gain experience. It's all a matter of how you look at it. Detroit has the oldest team in the league but NJ is second and they lost in the finals last year.

Try to be objective people. Chicago did not improve, St. Louis did not improve, Nashville got worse, Columbus got worse. 7 teams in the west will not make the playoffs. IMO they are:

Columbus

Colorado

Minny

Edmonton

Calgary

Anaheim

Dallas

Phoenix

That's actually (8). Which 2 of those teams is better than us? I can't think of any Norris trophy candidates on any of those teams. We no longer have the best D-man in the West but neither do any of these 8.

I think Detroit will have a good (albeit shortened) season. The reason it does not benefit us so much is because We have all new lines needing to develop chemistry Dats and Brunner need to develop chemistry, franzen flip and sammy, cleary helm bert, miller tootoo abby, smith and quincey, colo and white

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You advised people to get back into the real world if they think Holland could get fired. I mean, we are discussing real world stuff - Red Wings Hockey - here.

Like I said I am saddened that some of the better owners (Dolan, Pegula, Mr. I, Aquilani, Snider) didn't speak out against this crap, I already don't like the new CBA, can't wait for some loopholes giving the Wings back some advantage.

Nah, I don't think I'm sorry for that. It's a legit suggestion and if you take offense to that it's because it's true. To think he'd get fired for missing the playoffs once is total forum doomsayer think.

Edited by shoobiedoobin
Nightfall, number9 and IILeiBlazeII like this

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Illitch will not fire Holland for missing the playoffs once in 22 years, that being said if it was even a thought, then babs would bbe on the chopping block as well

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I don't understand why this is such big news.

Every year, holland suggests that they aren't a lock for the playoffs, which is the right mindset imo. you never want to go into the year thinking that you are going to automatically make the playoffs just because you made it the previous year.



Illitch will not fire Holland for missing the playoffs once in 22 years, that being said if it was even a thought, then babs would bbe on the chopping block as well

babcock will be fired long before holland is

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I don't understand why this is such big news.

Every year, holland suggests that they aren't a lock for the playoffs, which is the right mindset imo. you never want to go into the year thinking that you are going to automatically make the playoffs just because you made it the previous year.

babcock will be fired long before holland is

This is the point I'm trying to make, if holland is in jeopardy, then so is babs

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Even if this team doesn't make the playoffs, we all know its not because of Babcock, Holland or something else its because the best owner in all of sports has to pay into revenue sharing instead of using the money to improve the club and ice a stacked team. Thats why players should have decertified.

I'm actually happy that there's a salary cap. This means that you can't buy success like you could in the past. You need to have a good front office and a good system to be successful for many years in a row and not just money. To me it's a bit cheap if your team wins only because it has a billionaire as an owner.

If you try to just buy success nowadays there's a huge risk it will bite you in the butt (Gomez, Redden, Bryzgalov, DiPietro).

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I'm actually happy that there's a salary cap. This means that you can't buy success like you could in the past. You need to have a good front office and a good system to be successful for many years in a row and not just money. To me it's a bit cheap if your team wins only because it has a billionaire as an owner.

If you try to just buy success nowadays there's a huge risk it will bite you in the butt (Gomez, Redden, Bryzgalov, DiPietro).

Back then you threw money at a problem. Nowadays you tank and throw draft picks at a problem. The cycle is getting predictable. Suck for a few years, acquire top end talent, be good for a few years. Then let someone else who sucked while you were good have a turn.

I think there's a more exciting even solution somewhere in the middle. Don't allow teams to spend like maniacs but don't hold back a team that would like to spend more than a team who won't bother. I just wish this were possible.

Edited by shoobiedoobin
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The old days of signing who you want and blockbuster trade deadline deals are long done. Elite talent surrounded by the right role players and a hot goalie come playoff time will win Cups. Its a formula the front office needs to adapt to.

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If we miss the playoffs...................

death.jpg

Oooooh! Let me finish this sentence!

If we miss the playoffs......

A bunch of fairweather fans will leave the forums? *Check*

A bunch of fairweather fans will stop buying tickets? *Check*

A bunch of fairweather fans will start cheering for another NHL team? *Check*

A bunch of fairweather fans will come back when the Red Wings start contending for a cup again? *Check*

As a fan of the Red Wings, I am not concerned if the team makes the playoffs or not. I am going to support the team no matter what. Yes, I want to see a winner, but I don't put conditions on my support. I support Ferris State Hockey because they are my Alma Mater. They are playing .500 hockey this year, and there were years they were in the bottom half of the CCHA. Yet, when they had a great run like last year, it was great. Do I wish they could have a run like that every year? Yes, but its not realistic considering the size of the school, importance of hockey in the program, and their budget.

The Red Wings have given me 20+ years of great memories. I never even watched hockey before I went to college, and I fell in love with the sport when I went to my first game. That being said, if they don't make the playoffs this year, big freaking deal. The management will turn things around next season. You have to realize that there are 29 other teams that are going to be competing for a playoff spot, and there are 22 teams that are playoff caliber teams. Some playoff caliber teams are going to miss the playoffs this year.

Back then you threw money at a problem. Nowadays you tank and throw draft picks at a problem.

Yup, I agree. There were two types of clubs though. The Red Wings spent intelligently for the most part. The Rangers did not. Which is why the Rangers had the highest or one of the highest payrolls and missed the playoffs or got bounced in the first round.

The old days of signing who you want and blockbuster trade deadline deals are long done. Elite talent surrounded by the right role players and a hot goalie come playoff time will win Cups. Its a formula the front office needs to adapt to.

Hrm....

Elite talent = Z, Dats, Franzen, Kronwall

Role Players = Helm, Samuellson, Abdelkader

Hot Goalie = Howard and Monster (possibly)

Sounds like we have a shot.

Course, you could plug names into those slots for 22 other teams in the league who feel they have a shot too.

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^Bingo. Every year we talk about a 9th or maybe even 10th seed team who was definitely playoff caliber (especially in the new NHL), but if we miss get ready for falling pieces of sky.

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^Bingo. Every year we talk about a 9th or maybe even 10th seed team who was definitely playoff caliber (especially in the new NHL), but if we miss get ready for falling pieces of sky.

The sky isn't falling. Those are just the virtual bodies of the fairweather fans that jumped off the rooftops of buildings. Prepare for impact!

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The sky isn't falling. Those are just the virtual bodies of the fairweather fans that jumped off the rooftops of buildings. Prepare for impact!

Brace, BRACE for impact!

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Honestly it would suck but wont bother me that much. If there ever was a season where the wings wouldnt make the playoffs and actually get a great pick in the 1st round, a 48 game season is the best time to do it lol.

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It's a distinct possibility, just like it is every year. No one is guaranteed a playoff spot. You can start out world-beaters, but then get completely swallowed up by injuries and general malaise, and then that's it for you. I can't say how we're going to do this year. I of course, hope that we make the playoffs, advance through to the SCF, then win.....but I'd be pulling a prediction out of my butt, and I don't like doing that. What I will say is, losing Nick Lidstrom is going to hurt this team more than losing Steve Yzerman did. When Steve was on his way out, we had players ready that had been groomed to step in when he retired. We're in a different situation now than we were then.

I'm both interested and scared to see what the defense on this team is going to look like now.

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Newsflash to everyone: it's POSSIBLE that ANY team might not make the playoffs. The sheer amount of whining over the fact that the playoffs are no longer a guaranteed thing is sickening. Welcome to the standard state of affairs for fans of any other team in the league. Get used to it. Maybe now you'll appreciate the 20 years of success more.



I thought it was a possibility every season. Or did Wings have a guaranteed spot in the past? Oh well, fire Holland already. I think it's time. We have almost played one game this season.

Yep.



<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="kipwinger" data-cid="2340950" data-time="1358448568"><p>
The Wings got worse on defense but improved their forward units and goal tending. I'm not so sure they "got worse" as you'd suggest.</p></blockquote>

The Flyers/Penguins method of winning 6-5 didn't work out too well and the Red Wings can't match either of those teams firepower up front.

The drop on defense is significant. The goaltending duo is improved, but can they steal games with this defense likely needing that?

News: the Wings also don't have horrific goaltenders. Howard would never let in the habitual stinkers that Bryzgalov and Fleury allowed.




Straight up. If we had a full season this year and missed the playoffs, a lot of blame would have been on Holland, and rightly so. But with this shortened season he kinda has an excuse if they miss the playoffs. A lot of bad teams will be making it, and a lot of good teams will be missing it. Sprint.

He has more than an excuse; he has 14 years of success behind him. If every GM who failed to make the playoffs got fired, we'd be seeing a ludicrous turnover in general managers. But it doesn't work that way. Fans of the Wings have simply grown to believe that making the playoffs is something that they deserve. It's sad to see such a spoiled, unappreciative state of mind.

Edited by Crymson

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Back then you threw money at a problem. Nowadays you tank and throw draft picks at a problem. The cycle is getting predictable. Suck for a few years, acquire top end talent, be good for a few years. Then let someone else who sucked while you were good have a turn.

I think there's a more exciting even solution somewhere in the middle. Don't allow teams to spend like maniacs but don't hold back a team that would like to spend more than a team who won't bother. I just wish this were possible.

Exactly

back in the good days, a top end front office, g reat coaching has been rewarded with great talent, think about Stevie, the Russian 5, Shanahan, Chelios, perfect human with guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg ready for the big club. The Wings gained their advantage through hardwork and an owner willing to spend and now this team is getting punished for being too good? While some teams just suck for years, be good for a few and rince repeat thats not my definition of NHL hockey.

This year the Rangers are a damn scary team.

When Steve was on his way out, we had players ready that had been groomed to step in when he retired. We're in a different situation now than we were then.

I'm both interested and scared to see what the defense on this team is going to look like now. When Steve was on his way out, we had players ready that had been groomed to step in when he retired. We're in a different situation now than we were then.

I'm both interested and scared to see what the defense on this team is going to look like now.

Same here even if they miss the playoffs it doesn't mean I will stop being a fan, the Wings are the best franchise in all of hockey, period.

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Oooooh! Let me finish this sentence!

If we miss the playoffs......

A bunch of fairweather fans will leave the forums? *Check*

A bunch of fairweather fans will stop buying tickets? *Check*

A bunch of fairweather fans will start cheering for another NHL team? *Check*

A bunch of fairweather fans will come back when the Red Wings start contending for a cup again? *Check*

As a fan of the Red Wings, I am not concerned if the team makes the playoffs or not. I am going to support the team no matter what. Yes, I want to see a winner, but I don't put conditions on my support. I support Ferris State Hockey because they are my Alma Mater. They are playing .500 hockey this year, and there were years they were in the bottom half of the CCHA. Yet, when they had a great run like last year, it was great. Do I wish they could have a run like that every year? Yes, but its not realistic considering the size of the school, importance of hockey in the program, and their budget.

The Red Wings have given me 20+ years of great memories. I never even watched hockey before I went to college, and I fell in love with the sport when I went to my first game. That being said, if they don't make the playoffs this year, big freaking deal. The management will turn things around next season. You have to realize that there are 29 other teams that are going to be competing for a playoff spot, and there are 22 teams that are playoff caliber teams. Some playoff caliber teams are going to miss the playoffs this year.

I didn't get to be a Wings fan until 2002-03, but I've experienced everything as a fan except a rebuilding period. A part of me is excited for that chance, while the other part of me dreads missing playoffs. At the same time though, I know that regardless of where they stand I'll support the Wings, but if they don't look like they're heading for the playoffs I won't be sitting on the boards here watching 90% of people whining about how X didn't do this properly.

Nightfall and IILeiBlazeII like this

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All teams outside Vancouver and St. Louis might not get in.

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I didn't get to be a Wings fan until 2002-03, but I've experienced everything as a fan except a rebuilding period. A part of me is excited for that chance, while the other part of me dreads missing playoffs. At the same time though, I know that regardless of where they stand I'll support the Wings, but if they don't look like they're heading for the playoffs I won't be sitting on the boards here watching 90% of people whining about how X didn't do this properly.

The fact of the matter is that I will be on these forums no matter if they make the playoffs or not. I will just have to sift through the utter crap posts that have a combination of 2 of any of these words in the subject....

1. Fired

2. Franzen

3. Samuellson

4. Holland

5. Howard

6. Babcock

7. Sucks

That should eliminate 75% of the threads on this forum if a disaster strikes. :D

P. Marlowe likes this

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All teams outside Vancouver and St. Louis might not get in.

right... Vancouver and St. Louis have guaranteed spots in the playoffs, if you believe that I have a few things I would like to sell you...

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We'll be fine, we have Cory Emmerton. And we can't send him down via waivers because he'll be claimed. So we'll have him for.eh.ver. And so the dynasty shall continue.

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There's no way anyone can say this team is playoff-ready even if they find a way to make the playoffs, and that's really more important. If a lot of things go right and we avoid major injuries, we certainly have as good of a shot as a lot of teams in the West to make the playoffs. Any way you shake it, this schedule is going to lend itself to fluky happenings and the Wings could easily end up on the right end of that given our offensive talent. But again, given that we haven't done much at all come playoff time the last couple years with a far, far better D, it's next to impossible to imagine us making it out of the first round if we are lucky enough to make it in.

What's going to be really interesting to watch this season is how the team responds to losing Lidstrom. Will it be a wakeup call for a blatantly underachieving bunch of skaters, or will they flounder further without his leadership and the safety net his insane talent provided? Will Howard elevate his game and find a way to be as strong as he has in the past with a much weaker defense, or will his technical flaws become more glaring and problematic? If skaters and Howard can come out on the upside of change, than this team as a whole could potentially make some noise. There's a lot of talent, but it's been profoundly unrealized for awhile. Whether that boils down to motivation or mental issues or age or injuries or coaching, who knows? Again, optimistically, they do have a lot of potential thanks to a lot of talent, but that talent is going to have to be all in and running at close to 100% consistently for this team to have success this year. Hopefully the shock of having to adapt to a Lidstrom-less team will help them elevate their game. It'll be very interesting to watch play out, especially over this weird schedule.

And as much as I've been frustrated with Holland's handling of things the last 3-4 years, it's very, very, very highly unlikely that he'll get the boot after this year. If everything goes as poorly as possible and he has another rough off-season and then another poor Wings season, then you've got to wonder, but we're not there yet, and it's not impossible that all of this change won't be a wakeup call to him as well. I mean, like the guy or not, I think we all can say, let's hope so.

And I don't think Babs would get axed before Holland if things went down the tubes this season and next, including the off-season. Babcock's been pretty vocal to the media about his dissatisfaction with the makeup of this team and Holland's lack of movement on quality guys that have been available. It's hard to imagine that he's not far more vocal behind the scenes about that matter. If Holland gets booted, it's going to be for the same things that Babcock's been complaining about, and if ownership holds an opinion strong enough to fire a GM, why would they fire a successful coach who agrees with them? That is, of course, if that's what it comes to for Holland.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but even as far as coaching and Holland are connected, wasn't it "sorta-kinda" the Holland and Jimmy D camp that went with Dave Lewis over Barry Smith despite what Bowman suggested? Early signs of a pattern, perhaps? Lewis was the "friendlier" choice as he was the "friendlier" coach, and many in upper management seem really caught up in preserving the whole Red Wings family thing, or something...it's a really nice idea, but in the cap era more than ever, it's not really realistic. From what I've seen, I think Babcock has the mind to know what a successful team needs, and I think he has the stomach to handle the change necessary to make it happen. Holland may have the mind for it, and his good sense has lead to a lot of success, but when push comes to shove and you've got to make some changes, he's yet to prove he's willing to go out on a limb and make some tough decisions. The only time we've seen him be aggressive is when he was completely backed up against the wall this last off-season, and he failed to close any meaningful deals. Whether it was his fault or not doesn't matter if it continues to be a pattern. Like I said, it's almost certainly not going to happen after this year even if all goes as poorly as possible, but if the trend continues, then possibly sooner rather than later, his time as GM here will be up. "Survival of the fittest" isn't a contest of strength (or past success), it's a contest of adaptability.



The fact of the matter is that I will be on these forums no matter if they make the playoffs or not. I will just have to sift through the utter crap posts that have a combination of 2 of any of these words in the subject....

1. Fired

2. Franzen

3. Samuellson

4. Holland

5. Howard

6. Babcock

7. Sucks

That should eliminate 75% of the threads on this forum if a disaster strikes. :D

I'm waiting for someone to say we need new owners. Has that been done yet?

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