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worse before better.....


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#1 Richdg

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:40 AM

Oh those lovable Red Wings. Let's be honest, these first 3 games have been really hard to watch. We as wingnuts have been spoiled over the last 20 years. But, as always happens with dynasty's, we held the same hand for far to long. There is no doubt that moving proven players that help you win championships is hard to do. But we should have done just that. But that is water under the bridge. The other by product of our success is bad drafts. We have a weak farm system. Most of the guys with NHL talent are either here-thanks to the injuries or are 2+ years away. The owrse part is, we are not bad enough to draft in the top 5. IMHO we will end up around 15-just making the PO's this year, and thus missing out on the top end talent that could be in Detroit within a year. So yes, we get to add some more young talent in this years draft, but again most of it is 3+ years away.

So back to the top. We will get worse before we get better. For many of us this will be  a hard jagged pill to swallow. But we don't have a lot of choice.

Now is it possible we have one of those wonderfull hot streaks were we win 10 out of 12 games? yes. But we also could have a bad streak where we lose 10 out of 12 as well. In fact, neither would surprise me...

 

So the real question, where do we go from here? This is what I would do:

 

1. Let it be known to the rest of the NHL that we are sellers. Everyone is available, for the right price of course. The hard part is, we don't have much in terms of value to get good young talnet back in return. Only 4 guys would fetch much: Z, Dat, Kronwall, and Howard. The only one of that group I wouldn't want to move is Howard, but he is a UFA after the season, so if the price is right, even he could go.

 

2. My goal in all trades is 3 fold: clear out cap space, pick up young talent, and add draft picks. Capgeek says we have 45 million spent for next season with a 13/14 cap of 64 million. Leaving 19 million to spend. I would prefer to resign Howard-we have nothing else ready to take his place and good G's are hard to find. That will eat up around 5 million to resign him. Leaving us with about 14 million to spend. The goal should be to get to 20+ million to spend in FA after we resign Howard.

 

3. We have 2 buyouts that we can use, that will not effect the cap. If we can't trade them away, I use the buyouts on Quincey and Franzen. That would give us another 7.7 million to spend.

 

4. If I am able to trade away datsyuk, then I would resign Filppula. Dat makes about 6.7 million per year and does have trade value. Filppula-who is 7 years younger is a UFA. Per the new CBA, resigning your current players allows you to go to a 8 year contract. Creating a chance for a lower cap hit. Yes, that would mean Filppula is 36 when his contract expires, or 1 year older than datsyuk is now. If the choice is 6 years @ 5 million per or 8 years @ 4 million per, go with the later. That would free up another 2.7 million after moving Dat.

 

5. If you take a long look at the RW's from top to bottom, you see several positions with glaring holes. For example, we have 0 big RH shooting RW's in the organization. Every RW is small or is a LH shot. We have the same issue on D, only 4 RH Dmen in the organization after this season. Most of which haven't played a single pro hockey game. The closest would be Nicastro, but he is hardly playing for the Griffins. The 3rd area that we are lacking in, is big C's. Unless you count Abdelkader as a C, we just don't have many over 6ft tall.

 

6. 13/14 Free Agency. We saw how well this worked last year, but this year some things could be different. There are several big under 30 forwards coming up on their UFA years. Most of which are canadians from Onterio. Meaning we are close to their homes. We also will have a nice pile of cash to spend. As of today, we have about 14 million to spend. Buyouts to Q and Franzen adds another 7.7 million to that total. That means we could sign 3 high end UFA's for 7 million per year. If we are able to move guys like Calaicovo, Eaves, bert, and sammy (please someone take them!) that would free up another 8.5+ million to add 1 or 2 more guys to fill some holes. The one glearing position of weakness in this years FA class in RH Dmen under 30. Just are not many available, as in none. 

 

7. As for this years draft, That is my one focus, quality players that are RH shots. be they C's, RW's, or Dmen. For those that have never played, yes the hand of the shooter/passer does matter. It matters a lot. The half a second a guy has to spend turning to shoot or pass makes a huge difference.

 

Now I am sure some will jump up and down about trading dat or cutting this guy or that. So be it. But and here is the thought. Are we going to win the SC with Dat over the next 2 years? I would bet the house on no. So let's move him. I would bet a forward heavy team with few quality C's like the rangers would love to have him. They have several big young fowards and RH Dmen that would fit us. Same with the Devils. I am sure there are more that are in the same boat. But at the end of the day, the worse thing we can do is to stand pat and hope for something better out of the same parts. It just isn't going to happen.



#2 The Axe

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:56 AM

Here we go. Fantasy buyout land again. After this year, Franzen's buyout is 22.5 mil and Quincey's is 3.5 mil. "Mr. Illitch, I need 26 mil today so I can buyout 2 contracts I created." "Ken, you've just been demoted to fan."

Next

#3 esteef

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:00 AM

"We also will have a nice pile of cash to spend."

 

:lol:

 

esteef


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#4 DSM

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:02 AM

We went through this same crap in 06/07 after we lost Shanahan/Yzerman. The team will be fine. No need to sell the team when we are a whopping three games into the season.

Also, you put way too much emphasis on the draft. It's really hard to build a team throught the draft alone unless you are consistently drafting in the top 5, which means you have to suck for a long time. Worked for Pittsburgh and Edmonton. Drafting players is always a gamble. Ask Thomas McCollum, or even Angelo Esposito...

#5 MasterPavel

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:03 AM

Of those four you mentioned only Howard would be a remote possibility. That is just not how this organization runs things...

#6 Richdg

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:06 AM

Here we go. Fantasy buyout land again. After this year, Franzen's buyout is 22.5 mil and Quincey's is 3.5 mil. "Mr. Illitch, I need 26 mil today so I can buyout 2 contracts I created." "Ken, you've just been demoted to fan."

Next

Mr. I cares about winning. Not the bank account. If you have followed the RW's at all, you would know that. fact is Franzen is getting his money no matter what. Period. It is a sunk cost. We do have a chance to "fix" the mistake, free up the cap room, and replace a poor player/players. Same with Quincey.

But hey, everything is fine.........



Of those four you mentioned only Howard would be a remote possibility. That is just not how this organization runs things...

That is way we get further and further from the cup every year. Doing the same thing year after year and expecting a different result is stupid.



#7 Crymson

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:07 AM

PANIC!!!!!



#8 Richdg

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:09 AM

PANIC!!!!!

Nope, fact.



#9 Crymson

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:11 AM

Nope, fact.

 

No, conclusion based on three games of data is panic.



#10 DSM

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:14 AM

Quick everybody, turn on NHL13 and see what kinda trades will work!

#11 Nev

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:48 AM

No, conclusion based on three games of data is panic.

Says the man who created a Lashoff thread based on 1 game of data.

 

 We went through this same crap in 06/07 after we lost Shanahan/Yzerman.

 

Difference then was we had Datsyuk and Zetterberg ready to step into their shoes, and the likes of Filpulla and Hudler and Kronwall to fill secondary positions.  We also had Z and Franzen and Flip and Hudler and Sammy and more on really cheap contracts which gave us plenty of cap room to sign the Rafalskis and the Stuarts.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#12 FireCaptain

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:02 AM

Trade the Captain and Datsyuk? Huh. 

 

 

Sounds like a great idea. 

 

/sarcasm


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#13 Crymson

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:21 AM

Says the man who created a Lashoff thread based on 1 game of data.

 

LOL. As if a "this guy looks promising" thread equates to a thread stating, "this team blows; we need to trade everyone."

 

Nice try.



#14 Dabura

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:36 AM

"Ken, your hair is on fire."

"What? Pshhh. Nahhhhhh. Pssshhhh. We draft from withiin now."


Don't Toews me, bro!


#15 irishock

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:49 AM

Like another poster said, this isn't NHL 13. You don't blow up your team and start a rebuild like that. 


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#16 amato

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:10 AM

Quick everybody, turn on NHL13 and see what kinda trades will work!

 

Ovechkin and Green for Cleary White Kindl a 1st and a 2nd.... 



LOL. As if a "this guy looks promising" thread equates to a thread stating, "this team blows; we need to trade everyone."

 

Nice try.

 

also, Lashoff has looked promising for a little while.... him playing up on the big club and doing well just re-enforces that he looks promising. 


Datsyukian

Dat·syu·ki·an [dat-soo-kee-uh n]

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          1. When your moves are so amazing and beyond reason, the only way to describe them is "datsyukian."


#17 Crymson

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:16 AM

"Ken, your hair is on fire."

"What? Pshhh. Nahhhhhh. Pssshhhh. We draft from withiin now."

 

"Holland is a dolt. I'm done with this team. I won't be posting on these forums anymore." "Wait, the team he built won a Cup? I'm coming back!!" "Holland is terrible! Inexcusable!"


Edited by Crymson, 24 January 2013 - 03:17 AM.


#18 Carman

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:23 AM

As long as Franzen is producing 25-30 goals, 50-60 points he's going to stay. Whether we like it or not, that's good enough production that you can't just buy him out, and it's not good enough to overlook his deficiencies.

 

The only thing I would say is if we are out of the playoff hunt I wouldn't mind being a seller to an extent. But it would have to really depend on the information that I don't have(IE. Is datsyuk going to stay after his contract, how do I feel about our farm system, etc.) If I feel Datsyuk is gone after his contract is up, then it's a pretty easy choice for me, it would suck, as Datsyuk is one of my all time favorite players, but if trading him will give us a Kessel type return then you have to do it.



#19 Nev

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:53 AM

LOL. As if a "this guy looks promising" thread equates to a thread stating, "this team blows; we need to trade everyone."

 

Nice try.

Every wing looks promising in their first game,  from Kyle Calder to Derek Meech.  I remember someone here saying Lebda was going to be "elite".  

 

None of which takes away from the fact that 3 games is still a bigger sample size than 1 game, especially when it's more like 3 seasons that the Wings have been in their slow but inexorable decline..  About the same length of time that you' 've been in denial.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#20 F.Michael

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:59 AM

We went through this same crap in 06/07 after we lost Shanahan/Yzerman. The team will be fine. No need to sell the team when we are a whopping three games into the season.

Also, you put way too much emphasis on the draft. It's really hard to build a team throught the draft alone unless you are consistently drafting in the top 5, which means you have to suck for a long time. Worked for Pittsburgh and Edmonton. Drafting players is always a gamble. Ask Thomas McCollum, or even Angelo Esposito...

I agree, and disagree here...

 

I agree 100% that it's really tuff to build thru the draft, and where we've been picking we're lucky to find 3rd line forwards, or #5/#6 Dmen.

 

Now I disagree with how things are when compared to 06/07 after Stevie, and Shanny left...We still had Lids, and Dats/Hank were much younger...Today there's no Lidstrom, and our 2 top forwards are several years older...Today this team is in much worse shape overall.

 

This is gonna be a rough season - the Wings will be lucky to end the season in 8th spot, but more likely 9th, or lower.



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