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unsaddleddonald

How do we solve our PK issues?

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I don't think Brunner at the point is the answer. Yes he has a good point shot, but he is too valueable from the circles on in. And we don't need the defensive liability that goes along with him being there. Hell, he's valuable just hiding out next to the net on the goal line cherry picking.

Yes, it was a different look, something to try, but I hope we move away from it. Between Kronner, Smith, Ericsson, and Quincey, any of those guys should be good enough while White is out.

I'm thinking this has morphed into a ST's thread, not just a PK thread... :hockey:

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So goalies are now not part of the D? Interesting.....

These 2 groups are better than ours. A Lot better.

Uhhhhhh not sure what ur getting at cause I didn't say anything about our team. You claimed NJD and LA were the two best defensive squads, all I did was point out that you couldn't be more wrong.

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So goalies are now not part of the D? Interesting.....

These 2 groups are better than ours. A Lot better.

Goalies are the last line of defense, but I've never heard of Lidstrom strapping the pads on, why because he is a defenseman, not a goalie. Two seperate groupings

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Uhhhhhh not sure what ur getting at cause I didn't say anything about our team. You claimed NJD and LA were the two best defensive squads, all I did was point out that you couldn't be more wrong.

Yes Defensive squads. That includes the G and is the most important part of the PK. Howard has been great. Not our issue. The problem lies in front of him.

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Best way to solve a junk PK, block the shots or get the hell out of the way so Howard can see them. Done.

This. So basic, so simple.

I don't think Brunner at the point is the answer. Yes he has a good point shot, but he is too valueable from the circles on in. And we don't need the defensive liability that goes along with him being there. Hell, he's valuable just hiding out next to the net on the goal line cherry picking.

Yes, it was a different look, something to try, but I hope we move away from it. Between Kronner, Smith, Ericsson, and Quincey, any of those guys should be good enough while White is out.

I'm thinking this has morphed into a ST's thread, not just a PK thread... :hockey:

Why exactly is he at the point. With his skill set as a pure goal scorer and his moves, wouldn't we want him more mobile instead of static at the point?

T.Low likes this

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This. So basic, so simple.

Why exactly is he at the point. With his skill set as a pure goal scorer and his moves, wouldn't we want him more mobile instead of static at the point?

And that's the way a PK should be. the PP must be elaborate to elude a good aggressive simple PK, but the PK itself gets terrible for the Wings when they scramble and try to force too much. Tootoo should be on the PK with Helm when he gets back and then Filppula, Dats, Z and Abdelkader should rotate the other PK line throwing in Eaves and Miller when the top guys have been out too much. Oh, and i can't stress this point enough....lose Quincey.

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Doughty-Mitchell

Scuderi-Greene

Voynov-Martinez

Drewiske

Volchenkov-Zidlicky

Tallinder-Salvador

Greene-Fayne

Larsson

2 of the best defensive clubs? Did your mother shake you when you were a baby?

First, you can make your point without the insult.

Second, the LA defense was great at the end of the season and playoffs. Mitchell was their best D-man. Doughty was back on form and working hard under Suter. Greene was a solid physical stay at home guy. Voynov was playing like a seasoned vet and not a rookie. Martinez a serviceable #6 guy who brings great speed.

I don't know about best but it's not ridiculous to think they're one of the better defensive corps. Big, physical, with a great mix of speed and skill.

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Doughty-Mitchell

Scuderi-Greene

Voynov-Martinez

Drewiske

Volchenkov-Zidlicky

Tallinder-Salvador

Greene-Fayne

Larsson

2 of the best defensive clubs? Did your mother shake you when you were a baby?

Just for reference, NJD was #1 in PK last year and the LAK were #4. That is good defense. in todays game, with all of the penalties called, the PK is even more important than ever.

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First, you can make your point without the insult.

Second, the LA defense was great at the end of the season and playoffs. Mitchell was their best D-man. Doughty was back on form and working hard under Suter. Greene was a solid physical stay at home guy. Voynov was playing like a seasoned vet and not a rookie. Martinez a serviceable #6 guy who brings great speed.

I don't know about best but it's not ridiculous to think they're one of the better defensive corps. Big, physical, with a great mix of speed and skill.

Doughty is the clear Top2 D-man there, but Mitchell, Voynov, and Greene are all Top4, sometimes Top6 caliber players. They do have a good mix of physicality, skill, speed ect. though.

Yes Defensive squads. That includes the G and is the most important part of the PK. Howard has been great. Not our issue. The problem lies in front of him.

Okkkkk That's great. I agree with you there. But again, I wasn't talking about Howard or our D.....was talking about NJD and LA. Following me?

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Doughty is the clear Top2 D-man there, but Mitchell, Voynov, and Greene are all Top4, sometimes Top6 caliber players. They do have a good mix of physicality, skill, speed ect. though.

Okkkkk That's great. I agree with you there. But again, I wasn't talking about Howard or our D.....was talking about NJD and LA. Following me?

I wrote, very clearly, that last year NJD and LAK were 2 of the best defensive teams. Whcih is what helped them win the SC. You said they were not. Now I have pointed it out and proven my point, and you ask if I am following?????

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I wrote, very clearly, that last year NJD and LAK were 2 of the best defensive teams. Whcih is what helped them win the SC. You said they were not. Now I have pointed it out and proven my point, and you ask if I am following?????

How have you proven they were the 2 best defensive clubs? The only thing you've done is mention OUR defense and Howard.

St. Louis was the best defensive club. #1 in fewest goals against and #1 in fewest shots allowed.

Besides Doughty, Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk are more valuable than anyone in LA's or NJD's defense core

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Agreed.. St. Louis last season with the Halak Elliot combo along with the D was vicious. Especially during the second half of the season.

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Again, Columbus ties it up on the PP.

Abby and Cleary collapse down low and there is no one to challenge Wisnieski's shot....

Cleary shouldn't be out there for the simple fact that he can't skate anymore, but that is another story....

Chicago throws out Hossa, Toews, Sharp, and Bolland on their PK. In other words, they throw SMART hockey players out on their PK.

We can't continue to pretty much submit at least one power play goal in every single game.

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This was posted on HFboards. Pretty scary when you look at it, especially since we consider Kronwall our #1. This is the goals against Kronwall has been on the ice for.

He was on the ice for 3 of the 4 goals against tonight.

He was on the ice for all 3 St Louis goals last night.

He was on the ice for Dallas' lone goal in the 4-1 win.

He was on the ice for 1 of the 2 Chicago goals in the 2-1 OT loss.

He was on the ice for 2 of the 3 Wild goals during that game.

He wasn't on the ice for either goal against in the 2-1 loss to the Stars.

He was on the ice for 2 of the 3 goals against in our 5-3 win against the BJs.

He was on the ice for 2 of our 6 goals against in the opening night loss.



All told he's been on the ice for 14 of the 24 goals against, that's 58% of the goals scored against us.

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problem at the moment is if we put our 4 best players/skaters on the ice for the PK they wont get rested like they should do.

your role guys should be picking up the pk mins and our best one is injured at present. until we have a fully fir roster (yeah I know)

we arent going to be able to gauge the problem and rectify it correctly.

1PK

Ericsson Huskin

Eaves Helm would be my choice as 2 big bodies at the back and our 2 fastest (role) skaters.

Our other problem is we havent got the biggest set of forwards in the league to compensate

for lack of foot speed and size on the 2nd PK so thats where we have the major problem.

Mursak is on a par with Eaves speed wise but would you trust a fairly rookie player on the PK you have

to sooner than later and maybe thats the role Mursak could win a place on the roster when he returns.

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This was posted on HFboards. Pretty scary when you look at it, especially since we consider Kronwall our #1. This is the goals against Kronwall has been on the ice for.

....

All told he's been on the ice for 14 of the 24 goals against, that's 58% of the goals scored against us.

That's not particularly unusual. Top-pair defensemen play the most minutes and against the best players. They tend to be on the ice for the most goals against. Doughty's been on for 13 of 22 against LA. Pietrangelo 13 of 19 for St.Louis. Keith 10 of 18. Suter 15 of 22. Chara 9 of 19. Girardi 13 of 22. Enstrom 17 of 31... and many of those guys are consdered Norris candidates.

He could certainly stand to improve some on the PK, but I wouldn't say it's scary. If he's still close to a goal a game against on the PK after another 8 games I might get a little worried, but he's been doing it for a while and usually much better so I think he can turn it around. I doubt our PK will ever be good this year, but average should be an achievable goal, and enough to let us win more than we lose. (At least it will if our offense can rise above average, and our PP better than comically terrible.

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What we need is another legit bottom 6 centre man to carry the 4th line the way Helm carries the 3rd.

The Wings have always been strong down the middle. This year the depth isn't there, and it's showing.

Emmerton sucks, and Abdeldkader is a 4th line winger. With those 2 at centre,it's not hard to see why our bottom 6 have only got the 1 point. There's also no point having Tootoo if he can't play special teams.

so my PK would have Helm/MIller 1st unit

Legit 4th line centre/ Eaves 2nd unit.

bottom 6: Cleary/Helm/Bertuzzi

MIller/ Mystery centerman/Eaves

I won't win any of you over cutting Abby and Tootoo, but for (almost) twice the cost, can you really say that they're better than Miller and Eaves? Especially on the PK.

Who do I have in mind for my 4th line centre? Nobody on the Griffins, and I don't know enough about the other teams to say. But we do have plenty of bottom 6 depth to trade.

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What we need is another legit bottom 6 centre man to carry the 4th line the way Helm carries the 3rd.

The Wings have always been strong down the middle. This year the depth isn't there, and it's showing.

Emmerton sucks, and Abdeldkader is a 4th line winger. With those 2 at centre,it's not hard to see why our bottom 6 have only got the 1 point. There's also no point having Tootoo if he can't play special teams.

so my PK would have Helm/MIller 1st unit

Legit 4th line centre/ Eaves 2nd unit.

bottom 6: Cleary/Helm/Bertuzzi

MIller/ Mystery centerman/Eaves

I won't win any of you over cutting Abby and Tootoo, but for (almost) twice the cost, can you really say that they're better than Miller and Eaves? Especially on the PK.

Who do I have in mind for my 4th line centre? Nobody on the Griffins, and I don't know enough about the other teams to say. But we do have plenty of bottom 6 depth to trade.

Name one other player on the team that brings what Tootoo does every night please. The grit, speed and abrasiveness. Plus he is the only player we have who can actually fight

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Name one other player on the team that brings what Tootoo does every night please. The grit, speed and abrasiveness. Plus he is the only player we have who can actually fight

He averages 8:30 mins a game. 0 on special teams. 0 points, -1, 15 hits (69th in the league), 8 shots and 3 staged fights. Seems pretty high for a $1.9million cap hit.

Now, I'll be the first to tell you that you can't measure a grinder by his stats. But I haven't seen anything special from Tootoo at all. I had high hopes for him and Abby on the 4th line together and I want to give him a chance, but our problem right now is our special team play SUCKS. If we can bench a poor special team player for a better one, I'm all for it.

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He averages 8:30 mins a game. 0 on special teams. 0 points, -1, 15 hits (69th in the league), 8 shots and 3 staged fights. Seems pretty high for a $1.9million cap hit.

Now, I'll be the first to tell you that you can't measure a grinder by his stats. But I haven't seen anything special from Tootoo at all. I had high hopes for him and Abby on the 4th line together and I want to give him a chance, but our problem right now is our special team play SUCKS. If we can bench a poor special team player for a better one, I'm all for it.

2 "staged" fights, one fight midway through the first. He is a pest, he is doing what he is supposed to do, gets under peoples skin and makes his presence known everytime he is on the ice. He has the second most hits on our team (right after abby) and only plays 8 minutes a night, most fights,most pim. I would say he is doing a good job of doing what he was brought in to do

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arguing for or against Tootoo is pulling this thread off topic.

The question was how can we solve our PK issues?

My answer was replace the crappy PK'rs with good PK'rs: Helm, Miller, Eaves and a legit 4th line centre.

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Helm, Eaves, Miller, Z, and Dats will have to do their part. Helm will be a difference maker for sure as he can take faceoffs whereas Eaves and Miller aren't so good with that. Cleary is done on the PK - like he can't skate to the point fast enough to pressure.

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That's not particularly unusual. Top-pair defensemen play the most minutes and against the best players. They tend to be on the ice for the most goals against. Doughty's been on for 13 of 22 against LA. Pietrangelo 13 of 19 for St.Louis. Keith 10 of 18. Suter 15 of 22. Chara 9 of 19. Girardi 13 of 22. Enstrom 17 of 31... and many of those guys are consdered Norris candidates.

He could certainly stand to improve some on the PK, but I wouldn't say it's scary. If he's still close to a goal a game against on the PK after another 8 games I might get a little worried, but he's been doing it for a while and usually much better so I think he can turn it around. I doubt our PK will ever be good this year, but average should be an achievable goal, and enough to let us win more than we lose. (At least it will if our offense can rise above average, and our PP better than comically terrible.

I totally agree, but there was goals the last couple games that I have no clue what Kronwall was doing on the defensive side, especially the 2nd goal against yesterday when he just stood and watched the pass and shot.

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