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number9

Trading Filppula

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I swear to God, if Filpulla is going to be our Datsyuk replacement, I'll break something.

I'm not going to freak out yet, though. It's only natural that Holland would offer Flip a contract as a courtesy. If he doesn't have a deal to trade him lined up, why not? Flip isn't great and doesn't really make this team dangerous, but he doesn't hurt it either. But I hope Holland has the good sense to know not to give him a raise. I'm tired of seeing contracts based on potential future output. He's not a prospect anymore. He's a competent second line center, but not a standout one. That's all. He doesn't have any sort of killer scoring instinct, and his playmaking, while sometimes brilliant, is only average most of the time.

He's defensively strong most of the time, but again--not a standout.

Sooner or later this team needs a shakeup, and Filppula needs to be tops on that list, if only because he's our only tradable commodity.

The only thing that scares me about losing Filp is losing Pasha along with him. We lose Filp, it doesn't hurt as much if Pasha re-signs on another 1-2 years because he can play the 2nd line center. If we lose Filp and Pasha, then we're SOL on a 2nd line center and they don't come easy. I'm frustrated as much as anyone else when it comes and came to the development of Filp, every year we thought it was going to be "his year." What scares me is that he's going to play lights out, like any other player would in a contract year, sign his contract and call it a day. If he keeps his level up from yesterday, I personally thought he was one of the better forwards out there. That is, also neglecting the fact that he had an assist on one of the Flames goals.

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I have always been in the "keep Flip" camp, but IF the reports are true that he is asking for more than 5 mil per on a new contract and thus will likely walk anyway when the Wings refuse to bend over, I would rather get something for him now than be left empty-handed as he walks away giving us the one gun salute...

nyqvististhefuture likes this

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If we trade Filppula this year, and lose Datsyuk next year...I think Jarnkrok will be more than capable of stepping into the lineup as the 2nd line center for the 2014-15 season.

Does anyone agree?

Edited by robb himself

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If we trade Filppula this year, and lose Datsyuk next year...I think Jarnkrok will be more than capable of stepping into the lineup as the 2nd line center for the 2014-15 season.

Does anyone agree?

They project that he will be coming to America next year, whether it be directly to the big show or the Griffs, is to be decided. I think it revolves around what our situation will look like going into next season. We'll probably give him a go at training camp and possibly pre-season but it's more realistic that he comes in at the 14-15 season. He's a great playmaker, skater, and can play in the top six, i'm just unsure of how fast he can get within the top 6.

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They project that he will be coming to America next year, whether it be directly to the big show or the Griffs, is to be decided. I think it revolves around what our situation will look like going into next season. We'll probably give him a go at training camp and possibly pre-season but it's more realistic that he comes in at the 14-15 season. He's a great playmaker, skater, and can play in the top six, i'm just unsure of how fast he can get within the top 6.

One of the reasons I would like to see Sheahan get a chance with the big club this season. The organization has him pegged as high as being a 2nd line center if his offense continues to develop like it has already in GR. Send Andersson down for a spell & let's see what Riley can do for a handful of games.

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I have always been in the "keep Flip" camp, but IF the reports are true that he is asking for more than 5 mil per on a new contract and thus will likely walk anyway when the Wings refuse to bend over, I would rather get something for him now than be left empty-handed as he walks away giving us the one gun salute...

im pretty certain wed be able to get a 1st round pick for him ....boston and pittsburgh will be fighting eachother for iginla the team that loses out we can ship filppula to them who will be deemed valuable since hes a cup winner and is from detroit (especially if the ducks keep perry)

i think i might consider trading him to maybe canucks in a few weeks if his game doesnt come around , canucks are lacking a 2nd line center for the longest time and kesler is gone maybe theyd take a chance? ... on the upside there 1st round pick wouldnt be 28-30th

One of the reasons I would like to see Sheahan get a chance with the big club this season. The organization has him pegged as high as being a 2nd line center if his offense continues to develop like it has already in GR. Send Andersson down for a spell & let's see what Riley can do for a handful of games.

id keep him down he's in his 1st season in the ahl i wouldnt wanna rush him too much maybe call him up at some point next year ... i still think we should develop the kids just not over exagerate and keep a kid with promise like tatar down for 4 years

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Huh?

Sidney Crosby:

2012-13 $7,500,000 $7,500,000 $0 — $8,700,000

and then...

2013-14 $12,000,000 $12,000,000 $0 $0 $8,700,000
2014-15 $12,000,000 $12,000,000 $0 $0 $8,700,000
he's still only hitting 8.7 in the cap hit and for the best player in the world... yeah... that's a discount. Look at Ovi.

I said next three years, not this year... *sigh*

The ONLY reason his cap hit is 8.7 is because the last 3 years of his 12 year deal are 3 million, he will average 10.5 million/year till then

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Since the NHL salary cap works based on average annual salary, there's still no denying that Crosby's contract is a discount. Who cares what he's making the next three years? Imagine if he pushed for market value...

Since players (naturally) try to earn as much money as they can when their contract is up, sometimes I think it's best to aim for the players still establishing themselves in the league. I'd rather have a low-risk investment that's easy to bury in the books if things go wrong than a high-price bust you're saddled with until the end of time (even on a former-star like Ovechkin). And for the record, paying in excess of $5 million a year for Filppula would be a mistake.

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Since the NHL salary cap works based on average annual salary, there's still no denying that Crosby's contract is a discount. Who cares what he's making the next three years? Imagine if he pushed for market value...

Since players (naturally) try to earn as much money as they can when their contract is up, sometimes I think it's best to aim for the players still establishing themselves in the league. I'd rather have a low-risk investment that's easy to bury in the books if things go wrong than a high-price bust you're saddled with until the end of time (even on a former-star like Ovechkin). And for the record, paying in excess of $5 million a year for Filppula would be a mistake.

well we agree on something, filppula shouldn't get 5mil, and Ovechkin is underperforming.

Ovechkins cap hit is 9.5 because every year he makes between 9-10 mil. Ovechkin doesn't make 12 mil any year, Crosby does and when he is 35 he will be making 3mil. If you take out the last 3 years of hiis contract his cap hit is 10.56 mil. Any team he went to would have circumvented the cap the same way, Crosby isn't taking a "team discount" the team was circumventing the cap so they could pay him the money he was commanding but not have a crazy cap hit. Zetterberg has the same thing in his contract, that was why they had the lockout, to try and save them from themselves

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I swear to God, if Filpulla is going to be our Datsyuk replacement, I'll break something.

I'm not going to freak out yet, though. It's only natural that Holland would offer Flip a contract as a courtesy. If he doesn't have a deal to trade him lined up, why not? Flip isn't great and doesn't really make this team dangerous, but he doesn't hurt it either. But I hope Holland has the good sense to know not to give him a raise. I'm tired of seeing contracts based on potential future output. He's not a prospect anymore. He's a competent second line center, but not a standout one. That's all. He doesn't have any sort of killer scoring instinct, and his playmaking, while sometimes brilliant, is only average most of the time.

He's defensively strong most of the time, but again--not a standout.

Sooner or later this team needs a shakeup, and Filppula needs to be tops on that list, if only because he's our only tradable commodity.

Thing is, even if you think he's only a 40 point player, his market value is still probably north of $4M. If he finishes strong and ends up near 30 points then $5M+. Maybe a bit of a discount if it's 7 or 8 years, but then again, look at Zajac.

I wouldn't mind seeing him back, though I'd prefer 3-4 years max. Not much looks to be available on the UFA market, and I really doubt Perry will be both available and interested. Flip gives some insurance at center, and flexibility in the lines. Wouldn't mind seeing him traded either, especially if we could get a 1st for him. We do need to open up some roster spots.

Edited by Buppy

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Just out of Curiosity, not even sure if SJ would even be interested, but going East we need to get bigger and get some grit... and idea what Clowe is looking for contract wise? I think in the long run he has shown offensive upside, he has shown size and grit and he could be a good force on a Line of Datsyuk and Brunner/Franzen. I'm not saying they are going to take a straight up deal or we want one but I am curious what he is looking at after last season not performing and this season struggling as well. A new environment could help him.

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well we agree on something, filppula shouldn't get 5mil, and Ovechkin is underperforming.

Ovechkins cap hit is 9.5 because every year he makes between 9-10 mil. Ovechkin doesn't make 12 mil any year, Crosby does and when he is 35 he will be making 3mil. If you take out the last 3 years of hiis contract his cap hit is 10.56 mil. Any team he went to would have circumvented the cap the same way, Crosby isn't taking a "team discount" the team was circumventing the cap so they could pay him the money he was commanding but not have a crazy cap hit. Zetterberg has the same thing in his contract, that was why they had the lockout, to try and save them from themselves

Of course they're circumventing the cap, in the same way that teams have been doing for years. But there's a difference: those low cap hits kick in when he's 34 years old. Do you think he's going to be playing at that age? I do. His contract runs until he's 37, and unless he's banking on a new provision in future negotiations that lets him restructure his deal, he'll actually play out his contract. It is without question a discount. Zach Parise just grabbed $7.5 million a year for 13-years, which helped to set the market this last off-season. Do you think he's only $1.2 million a year away in value from Crosby?

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Of course they're circumventing the cap, in the same way that teams have been doing for years. But there's a difference: those low cap hits kick in when he's 34 years old. Do you think he's going to be playing at that age? I do. His contract runs until he's 37, and unless he's banking on a new provision in future negotiations that lets him restructure his deal, he'll actually play out his contract. It is without question a discount. Zach Parise just grabbed $7.5 million a year for 13-years, which helped to set the market this last off-season. Do you think he's only $1.2 million a year away in value from Crosby?

Pretty close, yeah. It may not be "fair", but players aren't paid by the point. If star players have to be valued relative to Crosby, then lesser players relative to them, and so on...half the players in the league would be paying the owners.

Teams need stars and there's only so many to go around. Parise may be more valuable to Minnesota than Crosby is to Pittsburgh.

That said, had Corsby waited to hit the open market, the best he could get is ~$90M over 7 years. He's currently getting $76.8M. Decent discount, but added security of a longer deal. (Which could prove pretty valuable, given that he's already had a serious concussion issue.)

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Why do people think Datsyuk is not going to re-sign with the team? Has anyone heard him say that he doesnt want to re-sign? All this talk of Flippula replacing him or trading Flipp is bogus. Flippula will most likely not be with us next season especially if free agency is not deep at centers and is asking price is too much.

Honestly, I wouldn't sign him if he wants 6+ a season. He has no confidence when he has the puck, he's a pass-first player and were not looking for that. Were looking for a role player (not skills wise) that can step in like Zetts and Dats. That is our biggest issue on offense.

number9 likes this

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The talk of Dats leaving is unsourced garbage. I'd put as much faith in that as Pope Jon Paul retaining the papacy.

Fil has become expendable, It sucks, I love him, but that's business. He's a pass first center that we already have enough of. Moving him in a package for a scorer or a power forward is the smart decision. At the same time I would hate to have him leave though.

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Pretty close, yeah. It may not be "fair", but players aren't paid by the point. If star players have to be valued relative to Crosby, then lesser players relative to them, and so on...half the players in the league would be paying the owners.

Teams need stars and there's only so many to go around. Parise may be more valuable to Minnesota than Crosby is to Pittsburgh.

That said, had Corsby waited to hit the open market, the best he could get is ~$90M over 7 years. He's currently getting $76.8M. Decent discount, but added security of a longer deal. (Which could prove pretty valuable, given that he's already had a serious concussion issue.)

We're all entitled to our opinions, but I think if you compare Parise's contract value to Crosby's, it isn't even close. Now, I love what Parise brings to a team. He's a hard worker; he backchecks hard, he forechecks hard, he's valuable in all situations on the ice. Like a lot of players inking new contracts before the lockout, he took advantage of a longterm deal with a precipitous drop in his salary the last couple years ($2m and $1m respectively) to give his team some space. The difference is that he'll be 40 and 41 years old at the time those numbers kick in, and will probably consider retiring and coming off the books.

He's not even close to a point-per-game player either. He was the hottest free agent on the market, and he isn't even putting up half the numbers Crosby is right now. Now of course there was a lot of speculation about Crosby's health after the concussion which would affect his market value, but his performance to date has somehow improved on his pre-injury numbers. That's significant when you consider that the "discount" clause in his contract (the exploit in the old CBA) doesn't even kick in until age 34 or 35. Unless you expect him to retire, or have a new provision to renegotiate the contract - and all in spite of what figures to be an expanding salary cap ceiling looking ahead - he's a bargain.

But this is really getting sidetracked. The real point of this, to me, is to be wary of impending free agents who push for their full market value. There are definitely guys who warrant throwing a lot of money at, and I absolutely thought Parise fit the bill because of his excellent leadership qualities. But the things that set franchises back are big contracts to one-time-overachievers that never live up to their expectations. Handcuffing the organization to talent that doesn't pan out is an unforgivable mistake. It's much better to trade and explore burgeoning talent.

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What everyone should have learned from this offseason is that YOU DONT BUILD FROM FA. You build through the draft like we have always done and are doing.

And naturally as we have one of our weakest years, we also have one of the strongest prospect classes we've ever seen. The Red Wings have been the smartest organization in hockey for over 20 years and they continue to do so. Hockey requires more patience than any other sport. Red Wings have that, and that's why we win every 10 years instead of once every 50.

Trusting the system. The winning system.

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What everyone should have learned from this offseason is that YOU DONT BUILD FROM FA. You build through the draft like we have always done and are doing.

And naturally as we have one of our weakest years, we also have one of the strongest prospect classes we've ever seen. The Red Wings have been the smartest organization in hockey for over 20 years and they continue to do so. Hockey requires more patience than any other sport. Red Wings have that, and that's why we win every 10 years instead of once every 50.

Trusting the system. The winning system.

Stop making so much sense.

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Sproul is 6'4, 200 lbs, 18 goals, 40 assissts for 58 points in 39 games. That's just nasty on D. Probably our future top Offensive Dman.

Ouellet is 6'0, 187 lbs, 9 goals, 27 assists for 36 points in 40 games. He's one hell of a 2-way Dman that was even better than Dougie Hamilton on our terrible Canadian WJC blueline.

Those 2 will hopefully make the best D pairing in the league in a few years, as Keith and Seabrook were when the Hawks won the Cup in 2010.

Even if they make it to the NHL, it will take several years before they will be regulars. Let alone top pairing defensemen. Meech also made the Canadien WJC squad once.
rick zombo likes this

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We're all entitled to our opinions, but I think if you compare Parise's contract value to Crosby's, it isn't even close. Now, I love what Parise brings to a team. He's a hard worker; he backchecks hard, he forechecks hard, he's valuable in all situations on the ice. Like a lot of players inking new contracts before the lockout, he took advantage of a longterm deal with a precipitous drop in his salary the last couple years ($2m and $1m respectively) to give his team some space. The difference is that he'll be 40 and 41 years old at the time those numbers kick in, and will probably consider retiring and coming off the books.

He's not even close to a point-per-game player either. He was the hottest free agent on the market, and he isn't even putting up half the numbers Crosby is right now. Now of course there was a lot of speculation about Crosby's health after the concussion which would affect his market value, but his performance to date has somehow improved on his pre-injury numbers. That's significant when you consider that the "discount" clause in his contract (the exploit in the old CBA) doesn't even kick in until age 34 or 35. Unless you expect him to retire, or have a new provision to renegotiate the contract - and all in spite of what figures to be an expanding salary cap ceiling looking ahead - he's a bargain.

But this is really getting sidetracked. The real point of this, to me, is to be wary of impending free agents who push for their full market value. There are definitely guys who warrant throwing a lot of money at, and I absolutely thought Parise fit the bill because of his excellent leadership qualities. But the things that set franchises back are big contracts to one-time-overachievers that never live up to their expectations. Handcuffing the organization to talent that doesn't pan out is an unforgivable mistake. It's much better to trade and explore burgeoning talent.

I said before when the Parise/Suter thing was going on that I would like Suter, but didn't care nearly as much about him as I did Parise. Parise was on a low scoring defensive team in Jersey and he still got his share of points, but the thing I liked most about him was his tenacity and that he forchecks harder than 99% of the players in the NHL. He's fast and has a quick release and if his first shot doesn't go in, he never gives up on a play and that's what makes him so valuable. Do I wish the Wings signed him to that monster contract? Not sure at this point, but him and Suter for the same deal, don't want both at that money, just like this summer if Flip wants $5mil per, than he can enjoy playing in Calgary with $4mil worth of Hudler. I sincerely hope that if Flip is adamant that he wants more than $4mil and is arguing for 5 that Holland trades him to whomever the highest bidder is to rent his services.

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Even if they make it to the NHL, it will take several years before they will be regulars. Let alone top pairing defensemen. Meech also made the Canadien WJC squad once.

But on the bright side, they have tons of potential, which is somethign that we need badly and asap. If they spend the next 2 years in GR and then make the jump to the Wings, then to me that's one in the win column. Justin Schultz jumped on Edmonton this year. He's great offensively, mediocre to decent defensively, but he's still getting love from Edmonton's fans and all the sports panels. The next 2-3 years may be a slightly bumpy transition here, we just gotta hope that we get a good 1st round pick this summer and that Dekeyser signs with us and we can get hopefully 1 forward UFA. If not, then we have to wait for our prospects to be ready cause we don't have a lot of trade partners these days. Hopefully Jarnkrok comes here next year and is a Wing. He may be our 2nd line centre in 2 years anyways if Flip wants too much money and Dats goes home. There's gonna be a lot of change here in the next couple of years and half the team may be gone. Flip, Dats, Cleary, Tuzzi, White, Coliacovo, Eaves, Miller, Emmerton, Sammy, Quincey.... Only 1 of those players is irreplaceable. Bolded for emphasis.

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This is a perfect situation in which my normal Holland admiration is almost completely squashed. Holland will almost certainly sign Filppula but not only that, he will be overpaid in dollars and term. The Filppula experiment is over. Filppula is worth more to us in a trade, impending ufa or not. He is simply not worth the contract that he will almost certainly get. On the open market the kid would probably get 5+ years at over 5 mill. That is not the kind of money we need to spend on a 50 point player. In reality it would be better for his career if he left anyway. Florida or Pheonix would probably throw the bank at him and he'd play on the top line everynight. I could actually see him on Pheonix...seems like their type guy.

In reality, Nyquist should take over Fil's spot. He has just as much skill and a heigher ceiling. Probably wont rake him till he's 30 to figure it out too. Brunner and Howard need Fil's money and whatevers leftover needs to be focused on rebuildi.g our defense.

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This is a perfect situation in which my normal Holland admiration is almost completely squashed. Holland will almost certainly sign Filppula but not only that, he will be overpaid in dollars and term. The Filppula experiment is over. Filppula is worth more to us in a trade, impending ufa or not. He is simply not worth the contract that he will almost certainly get. On the open market the kid would probably get 5+ years at over 5 mill. That is not the kind of money we need to spend on a 50 point player. In reality it would be better for his career if he left anyway. Florida or Pheonix would probably throw the bank at him and he'd play on the top line everynight. I could actually see him on Pheonix...seems like their type guy.

In reality, Nyquist should take over Fil's spot. He has just as much skill and a heigher ceiling. Probably wont rake him till he's 30 to figure it out too. Brunner and Howard need Fil's money and whatevers leftover needs to be focused on rebuildi.g our defense.

I actually doubt we will sign Fil, aside from datsyuk and Z (and last season Lidstrom) no one on our team makes 5+ Kronwall comes close at 4.75. Holland may sign guys like sammy or quincey to 3+ but he won't pay 5mil for fil. Also there is a lot of talk of Holland agressively trying to trade for players, I would love for them to somehow someway get Ovie, so Ovie and datsyuk can play together, could you imagine that? The most explosive line in the NHL for sure

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I actually doubt we will sign Fil, aside from datsyuk and Z (and last season Lidstrom) no one on our team makes 5+ Kronwall comes close at 4.75. Holland may sign guys like sammy or quincey to 3+ but he won't pay 5mil for fil. Also there is a lot of talk of Holland agressively trying to trade for players, I would love for them to somehow someway get Ovie, so Ovie and datsyuk can play together, could you imagine that? The most explosive line in the NHL for sure

Two years ago, sure. Now, no way. Ovie is a bad personality for this team. He has a lifetime deal, declining production, an unsustainable way of playing for his size, huge cap hit, and would be here several years after Datsyuk is gone. It would be fun to watch though for a few years. Edited by achildr1

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