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b.shanafan14

Dreger: Wings 'very interested' in Bouwmeester *merged*

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I like Kronwall a lot, but it is somewhat peculiar that people criticize Bouwmeester for many of the same shortcomings Kronner has displayed.

Edited by GoWings1905

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I like Kronwall a lot, but it is somewhat peculiar that people criticize Bouwmeester for many of the same shortcomings Kronner has displayed.

If he has some of the same shortcomings, then he also has only a fraction of Kronwall's offensive capacity.

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If he has some of the same shortcomings, then he also has only a fraction of Kronwall's offensive capacity.

'He doesn't play with any urgency or spirit', Kronwall does. He doesn't hit or block shots, Kronwall does, He avoids contact, Kronwall doesn't. He never makes the playoffs, Kronwall always does

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he doesn't constantly leave his man wide open in front of the net, kronwall does.

marcaractac likes this

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Bouwmeester has always been reserved. I think the lack of emotion being used against him is overblown. You don't play 25 minutes per night in the NHL for years without having urgency. Nick Lidstrom avoided contact too. That's just how Bouwmeester plays the game. He's a reliable, puck-moving d-man on a bad contract. I think he's worth the risk for the right price.

haroldsnepsts likes this

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Kronwall hurts his team just as much as Bouwmeester does, if I had the time I would find all of his uncovered offensive zone pinches, being out of position and neutral zone risks and I could make Kronwall look just as bad. Kronwall has taken the 2nd most minors in the NHL for defenseman, that's not good for a number one guy, Bouwmeester for example has taken 8 penalities while play 25 minutes a night, while Kronwall has taken 17. That's a pretty telling statistic in today's age when penalties get called because you are caught out of position.

But let's go over the examples you gave from last night

And on that specific play by bouwmeester on that 2 on 1, Hudler completely abandoned being the high man after Bouwmeester saw him, and already committed, and if I'm in the film room would blame him, not bouwmeester. Bouwmeester saw Hudler make his way to cover, and Hudler didn't cover after Bouwmeester already committed. Pinching isn't a bad thing, especially when you see you have a high man.

And you're going to blame him for taking the pass away on a 2 on 1 on the Calvert goal? What level of hockey did you play? As a defenseman on a 2 on 1, your job is to take away the pass and keep the puck carrier to an outside shot, Bouwmeester did his job, and he didn't let him get in on the goalie. I'm confused on how that's at all his fault.

And once again on the third goal, his forward Stempniak gave absolutely no effort on the back check, and it was a 3 on 2, if he leaves the middle of the ice Prospal has an easy path to the goal. That goal is also on Stempniak for not skating hard and taking the late man, it's not on Bouwmeester leaving the middle of the ice to take a late man.

I wouldn't bother. I made similar observations on HF and they were ignored.

Simply nitpicking to lower the value of a defenseman they simply don't like.

Here is a better question: how many available and affordable defensemen are better than Bouwmeester. I don't really care that Karlsson and Weber are better than him. We aren't getting those kind of defensemen without drafting them or picking them up in free agency.

haroldsnepsts and GoWings1905 like this

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I wouldn't bother. I made similar observations on HF and they were ignored.

Simply nitpicking to lower the value of a defenseman they simply don't like.

Oh, so that was you. Ignored? No. I disagreed and knew it would make no sense to bother. And from my end, you were pointedly explaining away his errors in such a way as to raise the value of a defenseman you like. Never mind that Flames fans also thought he played horribly.

Here is a better question: how many available and affordable defensemen are better than Bouwmeester. I don't really care that Karlsson and Weber are better than him. We aren't getting those kind of defensemen without drafting them or picking them up in free agency.

.... affordable?? That tag has no business being applied to Bouwmeester.

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Oh, so that was you. Ignored? No. I disagreed and knew it would make no sense to bother. And from my end, you were pointedly explaining away his errors in such a way as to raise the value of a defenseman you like. Never mind that Flames fans also thought he played horribly.

Explaining away? The only one you were even correct about him playing poorly was the 2 on 1, which can happen. The other two were odd man rushes with poor forward coverage.

And it was one game. Should we have a "Bouwmeester watch" thread so we can nitpick everything he does right and wrong?

For the record, I don't like or dislike the guy, but I do think he would help the team if we acquired him for a decent package.

.... affordable?? That tag has no business being applied to Bouwmeester.

We have the cap space and he is on the block. So yes, he is affordable.

Edited by Doc Holliday

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I keep making this point and it keeps getting ignored. If you sign Bouwmeester with that price tag, you pretty much ensure that you can't sign a high end winger as well. We simply can't take on that much salary with the cap going down next season. By the time J-Bo's salary is off the books, Datsyuk is back in Russia (perhaps) and every other member of this team is two years older.

Bouwmeester doesn't help in the short or long run because we need defense AND a top six winger. Signing J-Bo means you're going to get another Samuelsson type winger who's top six in theory only.

gowings00 and Euro_Twins like this

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Please no.... If he was 3,000,000. then fine if he played on the third pairing where E should be playing. Rather do nothing than handcuff ourselves into something that prohibits our ability to get a top guy for the coming season.

kipwinger likes this

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Please no.... If he was 3,000,000. then fine if he played on the third pairing where E should be playing. Rather do nothing than handcuff ourselves into something that prohibits our ability to get a top guy for the coming season.

Agreed, I'd rather spend on a top forward like Gaborik and then pursue Yandle, or Smid (if available), or Regehr, or...nobody. Our defense could be improved no doubt, but I wouldn't be heartbroken if we did nothing on the back end as long as we got Datsyuk a real winger.

Edit: Another benefit of adding Gaborik, is that he's exactly the type of winger that Damien Brunner should aspire to. He'd be a perfect example of how to use your speed and shot effectively, in spite of lacking ideal size or strength. Put him out there, give Brunner a pen and pad and let him take notes on how Gaborik plays the game.

Edited by kipwinger

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We have the cap space and he is on the block. So yes, he is affordable.

The cap is dropping by $10m next season, so while we have the cap space this season, his contract would cripple the team's mobility in the offseason. That is not worth it for a defenseman of his skill level.

And given that Feaster is a moron, I don't expect him to be affordable in terms of assets either... nor is he worth those assets.

kipwinger and ogreslayer like this

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The cap is dropping by $10m next season, so while we have the cap space this season, his contract would cripple the team's mobility in the offseason. That is not worth it for a defenseman of his skill level.

And given that Feaster is a moron, I don't expect him to be affordable in terms of assets either... nor is he worth those assets.

Haven't we had mobility for 3 straight years?

What's your confidence that we won't end up with cap space next year anyways? The recent track record is trending the opposite.

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The cap is dropping by $10m next season, so while we have the cap space this season, his contract would cripple the team's mobility in the offseason. That is not worth it for a defenseman of his skill level.

And given that Feaster is a moron, I don't expect him to be affordable in terms of assets either... nor is he worth those assets.

it's dropping by 6 million. I just don't see how Jbo will help us, we have a strong young defensive core now, especially after winning the dekeyser battle. Our focus should be on strengthening our top-6 now with a young power forward that can become a franchise player

Wingsfan72 likes this

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Haven't we had mobility for 3 straight years?

What's your confidence that we won't end up with cap space next year anyways? The recent track record is trending the opposite.

Exactly. The free agent class is very weak, especially on defense. Plus there's always the threat that the players you do target don't sign with Detroit. Bouwmeester doesn't hamstring the club financially if there's nothing else available to spend the money on.

marcaractac and dobbles like this

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All I hear on around this forum is that he's a good defenseman but doesn't play physical. Neither did Lidstrom. He brings size, penalty killing, point on the pp, and a buffer for Dekeyser, Smith, and Kindl. If its only going to take a 1rst Nyquist or Mrazek, I say do it. The Wings D would be something it hasn't been in years. BIG.

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All I hear on around this forum is that he's a good defenseman but doesn't play physical. Neither did Lidstrom. He brings size, penalty killing, point on the pp, and a buffer for Dekeyser, Smith, and Kindl. If its only going to take a 1rst Nyquist or Mrazek, I say do it. The Wings D would be something it hasn't been in years. BIG.

For the hundredth time. The cap goes down to 64 million next season, and we're currently sitting at 61 and change. If you add Bouwmeester's 6.8, plus raises for Filppula, Kindl, Brunner, Howard, Andersson, Smith and Tatar, you've essentially guaranteed that you can't go out and sign a quality top sixer to play with Datsyuk in what appears to be his final season. So you'd be going into next year with the same top six as the one that currently isn't deep enough to compete with good teams, plus Nyquist and/or Tatar which ensures that the majority of that inadequate top six is filled with guys weighing less than 200 pounds, who typically have a pass first mentality and are easily kept on the perimeter by opposing teams.

No thanks.

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Do we really want to give Filppula a raise with the way he has been playing?

And can someone give me a link that says it is for sure going to go down to 64 million?

GoWings1905 likes this

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It was part of the new CBA. Here's a link. It's the second bullet point down.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/21176/breaking-down-the-nhls-new-cba

So according to capgeek, we would have about 17.9 to work with.

Assuming Cleary, Miller, and White are let go, and Jay-Bo is traded for his 6.8 million (assuming we don't lose any roster players in the deal), you could still have cap space remaining to sign everyone. Nyquist and Andersson won't command much, so the only ones you have to worry about are Fil, Howard and Kindl, really. Negotiate well (and even let Fil go if he asks too much) and it puts you with some cap space remaining. Sure this keeps you from making a big splash in free agency, but it all depends on what you are looking for. One in the hand is better than two in the bush.

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All I hear on around this forum is that he's a good defenseman but doesn't play physical. Neither did Lidstrom. He brings size, penalty killing, point on the pp, and a buffer for Dekeyser, Smith, and Kindl. If its only going to take a 1rst Nyquist or Mrazek, I say do it. The Wings D would be something it hasn't been in years. BIG.

First off, Bouwmeester should never be compared to Lidstrom. Ever. Nor should anyone playing in the NHL right now, for that matter, because Lidstrom was a special player the likes of which are seen only very rarely. That said, Lidstrom didn't play physically, yes, but it was not necessary for him to do so; he played a style that was extremely effective for him, one that only he, among all other defensemen on the planet, could pull off with a complete degree of success. Playing a non-physical game was not detrimental to Lidstrom's effectiveness. This is not the case with Bouwmeester, as playing with more grit could enhance his game. He does not play with much heart or enthusiasm either. This all combines to make his size a non-factor in his play.

And for the record, every single defense regular on the team, save Kronwall---who plays several inches larger than he really is---is above six feet.

Edited by Crymson

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His size is useful for his reach. I don't know how that can be argued.

If reach were such a big factor, then Boris Valabik would be an effective NHL player. As things stand, when we talk about a player's size, his reach isn't often what's being discussed.

And for the record (though this is a medical point), variances in body structure---there is no set ratio between height and length of arms---mean that some 6'0" players could theoretically have arms as long as those of some 6'3" players. It's unlikely but possible.

Edited by Crymson

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If reach were such a big factor, then Boris Valabik would be an effective NHL player.

Boris Valabik couldn't skate like Bouwmeester, nor did he have the skill or intelligence.

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