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Guest Johnz96

Franzen's a Bargain

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It's not all stats. When franzen is playing like this, of course he's a bargain. It's just frustrating when he's not producing. We know he can do better. And when he's playing like s***, it just looks like he doesn't care. If franzen makes up for it by doing this every year, he will be forgiven time and time again. But, when he is floating early on in the season, he should expect to get some grief in the court of public opinion.

I'm absolutely ecstatic that he's turning it around. I just think it's a little disingenuous to pretend like he doesn't play like garbage for several games at a time.

Edit: I'm just thinking of all the grief clearly gets because he has no talent. The thing about clearing is that he busts his ass. I think it reflects worse on franzen because he is capable of doing better. He just doesn't try.

Edited by The Greek
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Why argue about Franzen? He's a wing for life. We all know what he does. He's consistently inconsistent. But with the exception of a few years where he got dinged up, he's produced. This guy isn't the roster spot to worry about. At 4 mil per, he's fairly priced for what he's produced.

Z Winged Dangler likes this

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Franzen continues to be the most undeserved whipping boy ever. He's only led the team in goals every single year since he's had his contract.... and he is making UNDER FOUR MILLION DOLLARS.

I love it when people can tell how much "effort" someone is putting in. Even when he is outscoring, outhitting, and outplaying almost everyone else on the team, it is still Franzen who gets constantly criticized, even over the players who are making more money than him.

Franzen's been one of the hardest working players on the team all year.

Euro_Twins and P. Marlowe like this

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Franzen continues to be the most undeserved whipping boy ever. He's only led the team in goals every single year since he's had his contract.... and he is making UNDER FOUR MILLION DOLLARS.

I love it when people can tell how much "effort" someone is putting in. Even when he is outscoring, outhitting, and outplaying almost everyone else on the team, it is still Franzen who gets constantly criticized, even over the players who are making more money than him.

Franzen's been one of the hardest working players on the team all year.

You're gonna get flamed for this... The same people that hate Franzen love using statistics in other arguments but when it comes to Franzen they get thrown out the window

Euro_Twins likes this

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I asked this before in a Franzen thread:

Those of you who think playing like a 4 mil a year player is ok now because it is his cap hit, while he is actually getting paid 5.25 mil this year, will you still expect him to play like a 4 mil player at age 40?

If not, then please stop saying he is a bargain at 4 mil a year.

That is his cap hit, not what he is being paid nor what we should expect from him.

He has said it, his coach has said, he lacks motivation a lot of times.

I am not surprised he is playing very well right now, the Wings have been in playoff mode for weeks, roughly the length of his streak.

And the Franzen apologists will come out and say if we put the last few weeks of this season, and the last month or so of season X you will see he is a monster.

WRONG!

i will see that he is a floater and plays when and where he wants because you had to pick and choose segments of his seasons.

His defensive play as of late is all I need to see to know that he spent the better part of this season disinterested, he is now playing D up and down the ice, 3 weeks ago he wasn't defending anything.

When Franzen puts an effort in for a full season, not a couple of months here and a couple of months there, I will back off of him.

But he only plays in Mule mode when he thinks it best, I like that about as much as I like diving!

He scores around 28 goals a season, however most of that is done in about 2 months worth of effort and work, if he worked as hard the rest of the season as he is working right now he would be in talks for the Art Ross.

Instead he is Floater of the Year!

That is the sickening part, he could be a top flight player in this league. Instead he plays when he wants, at least the last guy that played like this in the Winged Wheel was quite possibly the best defensive forward to ever play the game.

we know what franzen brings every game, management knows, franzen and his agent know. That is why his cap hit is 4mil. We know he is streaky, and he really turns it on before and during the playoffs, and for what he produces he gets paid accordingly, if he went full mule all year long, we would be paying him upwards of 7m+/year cap hit, that is how it goes, to have a 28+ goal scorer for 4m is a good deal, especially considering how he plays in the playoffs.

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I also love how people say he is playing piss poor offesively and defensively, considering before april he was still a +8, and had 18 points in 28 games, and he is currently having his best career ppg season

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I also love how people say he is playing piss poor offesively and defensively, considering before april he was still a +8, and had 18 points in 28 games, and he is currently having his best career ppg season

To be accurate....2008-09 was his best ppg season

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What seperates guys like Franzen from guys like Datsyuk/Zetterberg/other elite forwards is their DRIVE.

Like it has been saide, if the Mule could just harnass an energy or drive level from game to game the way he has recently, he could be an elite player.

As far as shot goes, let's face it: he has the best shot on the team and it isn't close. If we could only have that all the time.

Edited by unsaddleddonald

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To be accurate....2008-09 was his best ppg season

you are right, my bad, but it is pretty darn close to it, like 2 points off lol. I would also like to point out he has 5 straight seasons over 70% ppg production at 3.9mil cap hit, and flip wants 5mil... LMAO

What seperates guys like Franzen from guys like Datsyuk/Zetterberg/other elite forwards is their DRIVE.

Like it has been saide, if the Mule could just harnass an energy or drive level from game to game the way he has recently, he could be an elite player.

As far as shot goes, let's face it: he has the best shot on the team and it isn't close. If we could only have that all the time.

you look like franzen lol

Namingway likes this

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you are right, my bad, but it is pretty darn close to it, like 2 points off lol. I would also like to point out he has 5 straight seasons over 70% ppg production at 3.9mil cap hit, and flip wants 5mil... LMAO

you look like franzen lol

LOL, that is Franzen.

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Whats most frustrating is that if we just would have gotten 15 more games this year of 'present day mule' we are sitting in 3rd or 4th right now.

This argument makes no sense to me. You're using hypotheticals to blame Johan Franzen, of all people, for where the Wings currently sit in the standings?

I'll play too for a sec:

Datsyuk and Zetterberg.... the past month or so both have been fairly mediocre - at times down right invisible. If they were both playing at their elite level we all know they're capable of.... wouldn't the Wings be in better position?

Filppula - he's been down right terrible this season and makes only marginally less money than Franzen. Wouldn't the Wings be doing better if he was playing like he did last year?

You can say the same for almost every player on the team this season at one point or another.

Then there's the injuries, the short season, etc, etc, etc.

My point being Franzen is ONE player (who's actually been playing pretty darn well). To blame the shortcomings of this team on him is just asinine and sums up pretty well the irrational hatred he receives from this fan base a lot of the time.

Edited by hooon

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Back when Mule re-signed, he had come off a breakout season and we were up to the cap to the point that we couldn't have offered him money equal to what he would have been worth on a short-term deal where we knew that he'd play each and every year like he did in '08.

Plus we were using Lids as the un-official salary cap.

Mule playing for a few years like he did in '08 would have cost us a lot more per year.

We got him long-term at a price we could afford. He could have gotten more on the open market, but he wanted to stay a Wing.

I get that people don't like to see him float, but the guy puts up the points. Results are what count in the end.

For the results he brings, he's a bargain at the price. It's sort of like the cap hit thing.

He plays like a million-dollar player for x games and like a 7-million-dollar player for x games and his average is that he plays like a 4-million-dollar player.

As long as the 7-million guy shows up when we need him, I'll accept the million-dollar guy floating around when we don't.

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Whats most frustrating is that if we just would have gotten 15 more games this year of 'present day mule' we are sitting in 3rd or 4th right now.

Any team can say that about almost any of their players.

What makes Franzen a 4 mil player instead of a 7-8 mil superstar is he doesn't have the drive/focus/heart/dedication/interest/want/will/ability/energy/stamina/mojo to play like this for 82 or even 48 games. Even players with much, much more skill and talent can suffer from that problem.

But in general I will rather have a player that brings it when it comes down to the wire, than one who dominates in nothing games against nothing opponents and then disappears when it's make-or-break time.

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Any team can say that about almost any of their players.

What makes Franzen a 4 mil player instead of a 7-8 mil superstar is he doesn't have the drive/focus/heart/dedication/interest/want/will/ability/energy/stamina/mojo to play like this for 82 or even 48 games. Even players with much, much more skill and talent can suffer from that problem.

But in general I will rather have a player that brings it when it comes down to the wire, than one who dominates in nothing games against nothing opponents and then disappears when it's make-or-break time.

hossa...

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40 Gp 14G 17A 31P (1 more point than Hossa, 63 point pace over 82 games) +13 43 Hits all for a $4m cap hit

Hoss not only contributes offensively but a an amazing defensive player as well and has consistently played this way no matter what teams he is on or who he plays with... Franzen vanishes for a while, then plays some (after having "a fire lit under him") and then will vanish again and then push players from behind some and maybe give some face washes while running his mouth. To me there is no comparison between the 2... I pick Hoiss every time

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40 Gp 14G 17A 31P (1 more point than Hossa, 63 point pace over 82 games) +13 43 Hits all for a $4m cap hit

His cap hit is a bargain. when and if, he decides to play. However paying a player 5 million per year to play only when he feels like it is not a bargain in my opinion. He's scoring now but I still have no respect for him as a player because of his attitude.

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I am seriously considering starting a "The Wings should have never traded away Paul Coffey" thread every time I see Hossa's name pop up in conjunction with Franzen's. It's been almost 4 years now, get over it.

People treat it like it was an "either sign Franzen or sign Hossa" situation & it wasn't. Don't forget that Franzen signed for a total of $43.5m while Hossa wanted & got $62.8m in Chicago or respective cap hits of $3.95m & $5.275m. And don't forget that the Hossa/Chicago deal was almost "Kovalchuked" by the NHL too. I doubt Kenny would have pushed cap hit circumvention that far so Hossa's cap hit if he stayed in Detroit would have been higher. For example, Franzen's deal only back dives to $1m per season for the last 2 years where Hossa's does it for the last 4. So the situation really was either Hossa at a cap hit of $6m+ or use that for Franzen & to give raises to retain other players that season or after i.e. like Helm, Abby, Big E, etc.

And on the topic of "well Franzen's cap hit may only be ~$4m a year, but his actual salary this season is $5.5m"... Don't care. The number that matters to the NHL & to the make-up of the team is cap hit, cap hit, cap hit. I don't give a s*** what his actually salary is this season. Not one bit. He's got the 3rd highest cap hit among forwards on the team right now, 4th highest overall & he happens to be 3rd in scoring on the team this season, 4th last season, and 4th in 10-11. Seems about right to me. Say the Wings do buy out his contract this off season like some around here want, signing a UFA that provides similar production is going to cost them much more than a $4m per season cap hit. So yes, Franzen at a cap hit of ~$4m a season is a bargain to me not only now, but it was at the start of this season as it was last season & the season before.

Edited by ogreslayer

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Franzen continues to be the most undeserved whipping boy ever. He's only led the team in goals every single year since he's had his contract.... and he is making UNDER FOUR MILLION DOLLARS.

I love it when people can tell how much "effort" someone is putting in. Even when he is outscoring, outhitting, and outplaying almost everyone else on the team, it is still Franzen who gets constantly criticized, even over the players who are making more money than him.

Franzen's been one of the hardest working players on the team all year.

He works hard when he chooses. He does NOT make "less than 4MILLION", His contract this year is for 5.250 MILLION DOLLARS , which is $64,024.39 PER GAME, more than most people on this board make in a year. IF he was a hard worker he would be one of the best power forwards in the league, he's not!

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Franzen could lead the team in points and he'd still get s*** on. He's become the perennial whipping boy around here.

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Whats most frustrating is that if we just would have gotten 15 more games this year of 'present day mule' we are sitting in 3rd or 4th right now.

They wouldn't be 3rd....I doubt they would have caught Chicago....

55fan likes this

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we know what franzen brings every game, management knows, franzen and his agent know. That is why his cap hit is 4mil. We know he is streaky, and he really turns it on before and during the playoffs, and for what he produces he gets paid accordingly, if he went full mule all year long, we would be paying him upwards of 7m+/year cap hit, that is how it goes, to have a 28+ goal scorer for 4m is a good deal, especially considering how he plays in the playoffs.

If he was full Mule all year long, he'd be worth 7 mil, but he'd be putting up 90 points.

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Whats most frustrating is that if we just would have gotten 15 more games this year of 'present day mule' we are sitting in 3rd or 4th right now.

They wouldn't be 3rd....I doubt they would have caught Chicago....

He means 3rd in the league.

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