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Brunner Contract Talks


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#801 kipwinger

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 09:24 PM

The insane part of Sammy's contract was the term and the NTC.  I wouldn't even be all that mad about it if not for those aspects.  Two years at the same money wouldn't have been great, but I could have lived with it.  Sammy came to this team with a lot of question marks (age, declining production, injury history), and the contract he was given all but ensured that if any of these concerns were legit, the team would be hamstrung by it.  2 years, same money, no NTC and I'd have been ok.  Not great, but ok.  Anything else and you might as well have rolled the dice and signed Semin.  Even if he was a flop (which he wasn't) at six million per year, you'd still have paid him less in the long haul than you are going to pay to Sammy (even if he do buy him out at the end of next season). 

 

Ah highsight...


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#802 The Axe

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 11:11 PM

The insane part of Sammy's contract was the term and the NTC.  I wouldn't even be all that mad about it if not for those aspects.  Two years at the same money wouldn't have been great, but I could have lived with it.  Sammy came to this team with a lot of question marks (age, declining production, injury history), and the contract he was given all but ensured that if any of these concerns were legit, the team would be hamstrung by it.  2 years, same money, no NTC and I'd have been ok.  Not great, but ok.  Anything else and you might as well have rolled the dice and signed Semin.  Even if he was a flop (which he wasn't) at six million per year, you'd still have paid him less in the long haul than you are going to pay to Sammy (even if he do buy him out at the end of next season). 
 
Ah highsight...



Sammy/Tootoo/Colo/Bert

Holland sucked last year.

#803 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 11:33 PM

Sammy/Tootoo/Colo/Bert

Holland sucked last year.

 

Concerning last off season? Probably.

 

Having said that we somehow sneaked into the playoffs (injuries aside) and made a run. A good run mind you. 

 

Don't blame Holland Axe 

 

Back on topic anyone wanna take a guess when Brunner might actually sign with someone? 



#804 frankgrimes

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 11:38 PM

 

Concerning last off season? Probably.

 

Having said that we somehow sneaked into the playoffs (injuries aside) and made a run. A good run mind you. 

 

Don't blame Holland Axe 

 

Back on topic anyone wanna take a guess when Brunner might actually sign with someone? 

 

No hurry here, now with Jagr gone and not a lot left his chances of getting a nice contract increase on a daily basis. Brunner knows it and obviously so does his agent. Wouldn't be surprised if Nashville or the Blues trying to make a run for him.


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#805 karlvalley

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 02:00 AM

Sorry guys, but are we talking about the same Brunner that shot the OT goal in the 4th playoff against the Ducks? Who had a +3 balance against Chicago? Who had 15.35 TOI/G in the regular season, only to beat this mark to 13.07 TOI/G in the playoffs? Are you just mad he didn't sign and now you talk him down? Well, I am quite disappointed that the Wings could not keep him, and next season will tell whether that was a mistake or not.



#806 Crymson

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 02:30 AM

Sorry guys, but are we talking about the same Brunner that shot the OT goal in the 4th playoff against the Ducks? Who had a +3 balance against Chicago? Who had 15.35 TOI/G in the regular season, only to beat this mark to 13.07 TOI/G in the playoffs? Are you just mad he didn't sign and now you talk him down? Well, I am quite disappointed that the Wings could not keep him, and next season will tell whether that was a mistake or not.

 

Yep, the same Brunner who popped in the easiest OT goal in the world after Nyquist did all the work, who played against the 3rd line of Chicago, etc. etc. 



#807 chrisdetroit

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 08:09 AM

Brunner could save a lot of face right now by signing Kenny's offer and stating that he wants to help Detroit win the cup.

 

I think that I read that Kenny pulled the offer off the table.  Like it or not, Kenny's priority is trying to get Cleary back and that will require dumping salary.  No way can he get Cleary AND Brunner back.  The only way Brunner comes back is if Cleary doesn't AND Brunner comes crawling back.  He would have to fire his agent first though because no agent would come crawiling back.  All of these things happening simultaneously are extreamly unlikely.


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#808 ogreslayer

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 08:58 AM

The insane part of Sammy's contract was the term and the NTC.  I wouldn't even be all that mad about it if not for those aspects.  Two years at the same money wouldn't have been great, but I could have lived with it.  Sammy came to this team with a lot of question marks (age, declining production, injury history), and the contract he was given all but ensured that if any of these concerns were legit, the team would be hamstrung by it.  2 years, same money, no NTC and I'd have been ok.  Not great, but ok.  Anything else and you might as well have rolled the dice and signed Semin.  Even if he was a flop (which he wasn't) at six million per year, you'd still have paid him less in the long haul than you are going to pay to Sammy (even if he do buy him out at the end of next season). 

 

Ah highsight...

 

I was originally not concerned that much with term or the NTC figuring that there would be amnesty buyouts post lockout.  If not for the injury claim though... 



#809 DickieDunn

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 09:13 AM

When their worst contract is Samuelsson at $3 mil with one year left, the team is in pretty good shape.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#810 The Axe

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 02:10 PM

When their worst contract is Samuelsson at $3 mil with one year left, the team is in pretty good shape.


Yah, but this year has serious cup run wrotten on it. Gotta ditch the dead weight before it begins.

#811 StormJH1

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 02:44 PM

When their worst contract is Samuelsson at $3 mil with one year left, the team is in pretty good shape.

I liked this point, though you could argue that 2 years of Tootoo at just under $2 million each is arguably worse.  If it weren't somebody would've taken him off our hands by now for a conditional 7th by now.

 

Sammy, IF he actually played and stayed healthy for more than a few days, could theoretically do some things that occasionally border on a Top 6 forward.  There is literally zero chance of that with Tootoo.

 

But at this point, neither of them are particularly harmful - it was just the combined impact of several crap contracts all at once.  And yet, we had a built-in (cheap) fix for the problem because Holland had been assembling these Griffins players with late 1sts and 2nd rounders over the years.



#812 RedWingsDad

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 03:27 PM

I liked this point, though you could argue that 2 years of Tootoo at just under $2 million each is arguably worse. If it weren't somebody would've taken him off our hands by now for a conditional 7th by now.

 

I would argue that the Tootoo signing of 1.9 million a year was solid. Neither you or I know if Holland is at all interested in trading Tootoo - pure speculation on your part.


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#813 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 03:43 PM

 

I would argue that the Tootoo signing of 1.9 million a year was solid. Neither you or I know if Holland is at all interested in trading Tootoo - pure speculation on your part.

 

I'm not a Tootoo fan which I'm sure is part of it, but still he has a very specific role and skillset.  And 3 years at $1.9 million for what he brings 9-12 minutes a night is overpayment to me. 



#814 DickieDunn

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 03:46 PM

1.9 mil really isn't much for a vet like Tootoo

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#815 hillbillywingsfan

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 03:49 PM

 

I'm not a Tootoo fan which I'm sure is part of it, but still he has a very specific role and skillset.  And 3 years at $1.9 million for what he brings 9-12 minutes a night is overpayment to me. 

There is no way 1.9mil for what tootoo brings is over payment. He just needs to be used. 


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#816 RedWingsDad

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 03:50 PM

 

I'm not a Tootoo fan which I'm sure is part of it, but still he has a very specific role and skillset.  And 3 years at $1.9 million for what he brings 9-12 minutes a night is overpayment to me. 

 

I agree that based on how he has been utilized, it is an overpayment. I am hoping he gets more play time next year as I thought he gave us a real boost at the beginning of the season when he dropped the gloves and layed out some big hits... not sure if his fall off towards the end of the season was due to reduced minutes, direction from management on how he should play, or if he just didn't bring it. If he is given the opportunity and plays with tenacity next season, I think he will be worth the contract. I still think our team needs his grit... he is a mostly one dimensional player, but that one dimension is unique on the team as far as I’m concerned. I don't count Abby and Ericcson as enforcers.

 

Edit: When Boston, Ottawa etc. start getting rough with our guys, I will be real happy to have a firecracker to toss at em instead of Abby, Ericcson (double meh)

 

Double Edit: Montreal, Ottowa, Tampa Bay, Toronto, Boston were all in the top 10 for fighting majors last year... so I think Tootoo will get utilized a bit more if he stays with the team.


Edited by RedWingsDad, 23 July 2013 - 03:57 PM.

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#817 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 04:02 PM

There is no way 1.9mil for what tootoo brings is over payment. He just needs to be used. 

 

I think it is.  Especially for 3 years, his price should've been lower. 

 

He's a hard hitter but often takes himself way out of the play to make those hits.  And it's nice to have someone who fights, though it seemed like most of his were meaningless staged scraps that weren't even for retribution.

 

I'm not a fan of Carcillo either but he just signed a 1 year deal for $825,000 and the most he's ever been paid is $1.08 mill.   He's just the first reference point that came to mind, but what does Tootoo bring that warrants a million dollars more? 



#818 hillbillywingsfan

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 05:27 PM

 

I think it is.  Especially for 3 years, his price should've been lower. 

 

He's a hard hitter but often takes himself way out of the play to make those hits.  And it's nice to have someone who fights, though it seemed like most of his were meaningless staged scraps that weren't even for retribution.

 

I'm not a fan of Carcillo either but he just signed a 1 year deal for $825,000 and the most he's ever been paid is $1.08 mill.   He's just the first reference point that came to mind, but what does Tootoo bring that warrants a million dollars more? 

tootoo has one heck of a wrist shot and he is one of if not the hardest worker on the ice when he is on the ice. He also has the heart of a lion. i would much rather give tootoo that then someone like eaves who is a dime a dozen.


Edited by hillbillywingsfan, 23 July 2013 - 05:28 PM.

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#819 rrasco

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 05:59 PM

I have to say, I believe that more often than not, good things happened when Tootoo was on the ice.  He had one hell of a finish to the season IMO.


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#820 kylee

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:45 PM

 

I'm not a Tootoo fan which I'm sure is part of it, but still he has a very specific role and skillset.  And 3 years at $1.9 million for what he brings 9-12 minutes a night is overpayment to me. 

It's not his agent's fault Babcock doesn't play him enough.







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