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Hockeytown0001

gdt
12/4 GDT : Flyers 6 at Red Wings 3

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Wow, that hurt...

Totally outplayed in the 3rd as we stopped skating. Didn't get our second shot of the period until about 7:30 left to play.

Though we played OK at even strength for stretches (mostly in the 2nd) you could really see how badly we miss Pav and Z on the special teams. PK was obviously terrible, but I would argue the PP was worse - we gave away too many PP opportunities without mounting chances. The goalie has to be your best player on the PK and that did not happen tonight. Howie's glove-side got dominated today and I could argue 2-3 of those goals should (not could) have been saved.

I think Monster should get the next start and stay in net until he loses.

I'm pissed that Tatar's two goals got wasted.

I will say that I thought Helm never gave up and Mule did rise to the challenge and skated well, but at times we were out of position and didn't skate - for example, Kindl played his worst game of the year IMO

ALSO, and this is something I was really pissed about, Philly beat us up in the 2nd and we didn't fight back. They took the fight out of us and it looked like we just conceded and went through the motions in the 3rd. Somebody needed to step up and fight... whether it was the punch on Gus or the boarding on Abby I do not understand why someone didn't drop the gloves - made me think we should have brought Tootoo up instead of Emdog.

And finally (forgive me if someone has already mentioned this) I decided to play the Cleary drinking game at take a shot for every time Cleary fell down... at least I had that going for me.

Philly's 3rd line and PP killed us and we deserved to lose that game... hope it lights a fire under the boys for the next one.

ben_usmc and WingsAlways like this

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regarding the goaltenders, it doesn't matter who is winning, it doesn't matter who is the better goalie right now, Holland is NOT going to allow Monster to play all the games while he is paying $5M+ to Jimmy to sit on the bench. IMO, the best goalie they have is in GR right now, but you will NEVER see a move to not dress Jimmy and have Mrazek start with Monster backing him up. Jimmy makes way too much money, but you cannot blame him for cashing in on the market value of goaltenders. But since he is making the top money, he will always be the #1 guy here. Monster could go 20-0, yet Jimmy will still get the starts and the playoffs. In this NHL (sadly) its not really about winning, its about money and not wasting it.

By your characterization Tootoo(1.9 mill) would be playing and Tatar (630 000) wouldn't. And if it were all about who makes the most money, Sammy never would have been a scratch at the beginning of the season. I think you over simplify things. Jimmy can be great, we need him to be great so he still gets to play in hopes that he'll find his form. Monster's been getting the wins, but I for one wouldn't feel confident with him leading us in the playoffs. I also wouldn't feel confident with Howie in his current state, but I've never seen Monster look like a cup winner and jimmy has looked that way in the past.

DatsyukianDekes likes this

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I watched a bit of the game from 3-3 to 4-3 ... then the final score :evil: ... I don't have to read through 26 pages of comment but I'm thinking that this one is on Jimmy ... time to play Gus Babs. He gives you the better chance to win right now.

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One of the worst PP in the league got 3 against us. It was just one of those games. Howard didn't let in any bad goals but a goalie of his caliber should be able to make a big save here and there. Making 1 big save between the 4 straight and we could have responded. Not being clutch is probably the worst quality in a goalie

Edited by joesuffP

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Won't matter if we fall asleep in the third again.

I disagree, Monster has been clutch allowing more room for the team's mistakes/lack of production. I don't dislike Jimmy, and I know this is a touchy subject but perhaps letting Monster start a few games wouldn't be such a bad idea. People say he'll (Gus) never perform in the playoffs like Jimmy, we'll let's get to the playoffs first. Numbers don't lie.

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Jimmy has to turn his game around very, very quickly or Monster could be the guy starting in the Winter Classic. Not to mention he could risk his chances for the Olympics.

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Im over anyone blaming Howard. Just silly. Our D is young (sucks) and our forwards can't win battles, (physical, or skilled). Build a 4th line around a guy that will body gaurd, and a guy that will hit relentlessly, we can obviously make 3 solid skill/scoring lines. I'll take Emmerton or Glendening over Andersson anyday (guy's a total wimp). Flyers made us look silly, and it was relatively easy for them to do so. The wings show flashes of brilliance. but once a team goons the game up, theres no more brilliance. On another note, Dan Cleary is atrocious. Sammy isn't far behind.

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I think Matt should start dispensing lithium prescriptions with each user name - you are seriously some bi-polar sons of *******.

Yes, they blew a 2-goal lead. Yes, they are getting roughed up. It's not the first time, it won't be the last, and we're only ONE THIRD of the way through the season. It's a disappointment and hopefully a learning experience for the cast and crew of the Wings organization. Let's start the lynch mob a little later in the season, okay?

Ha.

I stay away from lgw after a loss.

Its depressing to see so many people give up on them and be disrespectful to the entire organization.

But the sky is indeed falling, and you should take cover.

Ha.

Its easier just to laugh at all the negativity, honestly.

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Monster starts next game! I say they roll with him until he loses otherwise our goalie situation will be like what it is in Toronto, no consistency. The biggest thing I notice between Monster and Howard is Monster helps out the D tremendously because he can play the puck, something Howard really needs to work on.

RedWingsRox likes this

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I don't agree with that.

As I stated earlier, Holland hasn't been afraid to bench Hall of Fame goalies in the last decade, regardless of what they were paid. Remember Cujo being sent down?

Hasek wasn't given any immunity in Detroit either.

I would agree that its a terrible excuse to play someone who is playing worse in a desperate attempt to justify their contract, but I do think the Wings are guilty of this, especially this and recent years. I think this has to do with the unfortunate accumulation of these contracts, putting pressure on management to save face. Yes, we have benched Hall of Fame goaltenders in the past, but these players weren't given huge contracts while playing on a team with a lot of other poor-spent dollars.

If you look at our cap situation if you have Weiss, Samuelsson, Cleary, Quincey, and Howard getting limited playing time relative to their performance, in addition to Tootoo and Eaves elsewhere, you are looking at a total of over $21.8M either riding pine or limited to as few minutes as possible while still maintaining enough active players to ice a team every night. That is just over 1/3 of our cap space on plugs, busts, inflated contracts, and now a grossly under-performing "elite" goaltender. I for one would rather have that dubious distinction while still winning hockey games, but then again, I'm not the GM.

Edited by b.shanafan14

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Most losses never really send me reeling BUT its the losses where our skillz players get roughed up that I bug out most about.

Again, no need for a goon or even enforcer BUT as a proffesional with competetion hardwired into evey fiber of you.....how do you not at least once stand up for yourself OR your teammates? And NO, im not asking helm or guz to brawl!

I love the 'turn the other cheek' mentality, honestly thats why I love the Wings BUT there comes a time when somebody needs to feel your hands, feel that compete level, right?

Hatcher#2 and Detroit # 1 Fan like this

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Jimmy has to turn his game around very, very quickly or Monster could be the guy starting in the Winter Classic. Not to mention he could risk his chances for the Olympics.

You're kidding right ... NO way he is even being considered for Sochi at this point. I'm Canadian so maybe I kind of wish that they would put him in net :ninja:.

A lot of players have a bad year after they get a contract extension, don't know whether it is a psychological thing ... I hate to say this but we may have to accept that Howie is having a MAF year :evil: . Babs is trying his best to get him going but he's going to have to make a decision at one point and I think we've reached it. That's why we got Gus and Mrzak.

Edited by RedWingsRox

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You're kidding right ... NO way he is even being considered at this point.

I'm Canadian so maybe I kind of wish that they would put him in net :ninja:.

A lot of players have a bad year after they get a contract extension, don't know whether it is a psychological thing ... I hate to say this but we may have to accept that Howie is having a MAF year :evil: . Babs is trying his best to get him going but he's going to have to make a decision at one point and I think we've reached it. That's why we got Gus and Mrzak.

Babs will put the best goalie in like he did when Ty Conklin started in 09. One more bad game for Jimmy after a rest and Monster will get a stretch of games. It's about winning games and Jimmy and Gus's record speaks for itself.

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I spent a lot of time and energy defending Jimmy Howard when people said that he couldn't handle it and that he's not as good as people say. I just can't do it anymore. I can't defend his play. He's been THAT bad.

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Howard was not to blame for that loss, we need are defensemen to make better plays. They were allowing screens to form all game, and not picking up open players. Howard only allowed 1 goal that he should have probably saved but was antipating the puck to be elevated, that was the second goal. The first goal was a screen on the powerplay, third goal was a snipe by giroux that was probably going wide but deflected off quinceys leg. Fourth goal was a hard pass all the way from the blue line right to the side of the net where couturier had a easy redirect in because no one was on him. Fifth goal was hartnells nicest goal ever, taking a pass skating towards the blue line he spins around and one times the puck top shelve while simmonds is infront screening howard, pfft no chance. if any other goalie was in net they would have faced the same outcome except for maybe the second goal. Even with all that he still has.909 save percentage which isn't brutal by any means, crawford has the same save percentage at this point in the year. No one needs to worry about Jimmy, worry about the defense.

Edited by dustylaw7

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Howard was not to blame for that loss, we need are defensemen to make better plays. They were allowing screens to form all game, and not picking up open players. Howard only allowed 1 goal that he should have probably saved but was antipating the puck to be elevated, that was the second goal. The first goal was a screen on the powerplay, third goal was a snipe by giroux that was probably going wide but deflected off quinceys leg. Fourth goal was a hard pass all the way from the blue line right to the side of the net where couturier had a easy redirect in because no one was on him. Fifth goal was hartnells nicest goal ever, taking a pass skating towards the blue line he spins around and one times the puck top shelve while simmonds is infront screening howard, pfft no chance. if any other goalie was in net they would have faced the same outcome except for maybe the second goal. Even with all that he still has.909 save percentage which isn't brutal by any means, crawford has the same save percentage at this point in the year. No one needs to worry about Jimmy, worry about the defense.

hahahaha wow. SO why is it when gus is in net we win and when howard is in net we seem to lose. even news sites are picking up on how much howard is not playing very well and is struggling. it's not just us mean ol goalie haters. Yeah ok I get it...if we had a defense that could stop the shots from even happening then yes...we would look a whole lot better. But howard was paid to make the big saves and he just isn't doing that so far this season. Not to say he isn't a great goalie or can be....just right now he just seems off of his game.

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Howard is playing way too deep in his net. Is it too much to ask to be aggressive but at the same time read plays and not leave wide open one timers. It's one or the other with him and he was still swimming last night

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hahahaha wow. SO why is it when gus is in net we win and when howard is in net we seem to lose. even news sites are picking up on how much howard is not playing very well and is struggling. it's not just us mean ol goalie haters. Yeah ok I get it...if we had a defense that could stop the shots from even happening then yes...we would look a whole lot better. But howard was paid to make the big saves and he just isn't doing that so far this season. Not to say he isn't a great goalie or can be....just right now he just seems off of his game.

Its not the shots we need to stop as much as we need to stop leaving players wide open infront of the net. So many screens with no defender pushing the damn forward out of the front of the crease! You can't leave guys wide open in shooting areas and not expect them to score, especially with solid screens on the goalie. Look at the game before against the islanders, howard could see the puck and posted a shutout even with tavares and vanek peppering him with shots. Defensemen need to do their job in our end, we lost way to many battles, left to many guys open in shooting lanes, and couldn't guard the front of the net from screens and to smack away rebounds. like i said the second one was the only soft goal, all the others were legit and had more blame on the defensemen then the goaltenders. Not to mention Howard made some big saves, he robbed hartnell with a toe save that looked like an easy tap in.

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Its not the shots we need to stop as much as we need to stop leaving players wide open infront of the net. So many screens with no defender pushing the damn forward out of the front of the crease! You can't leave guys wide open in shooting areas and not expect them to score, especially with solid screens on the goalie. Look at the game before against the islanders, howard could see the puck and posted a shutout even with tavares and vanek peppering him with shots. Defensemen need to do their job in our end, we lost way to many battles, left to many guys open in shooting lanes, and couldn't guard the front of the net from screens and to smack away rebounds. like i said the second one was the only soft goal, all the others were legit and had more blame on the defensemen then the goaltenders. Not to mention Howard made some big saves, he robbed hartnell with a toe save that looked like an easy tap in.

Two things.

One: Every goalie makes big saves in every game.

Two: The goalie's job is to make those saves when the defense leaves them out to dry.

Bottom line, Howard isn't playing well. He needs to be better. He knows this, we know this, everyone knows this. And the good thing is there's still plenty of time left for him to pick up his game. But we don't need to keep making these excuses for him that the fans have been making for years now.

hillbillywingsfan likes this

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I can agree with that he needs to be better, but so does the team around him. Crawford, Halak, Quick, Luongo, Smith, Bobrovski all have save percentages that basically match howards, cut the guy some slack he's not playing awful, sure he's not absolutely killing it, but the guy is still making saves, and the shots he is facing are alot more frequent scoring chances then what the blues, kings, and chicago give up. My point i'm trying to make is i think the defense is are big problem, way to inconsistent, and not winning nearly enough battles, way to soft in are end.

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