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MabusIncarnate

12/7 GDT: Panthers 2 at Red Wings 1

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Why be tasteless?

Dan Cleary is the only completely blameless person in this pathetic display.

I do not disagree, but every point Cleary is able to scrap together is justification for his resigning. I fully realize thinking like this is simply spiteful, but his ass clogging the roster is inexcusable with how many talented, young guys are trapped in Grand Rapids.

It is one thing to protect veterans like Chelios and Lidstrom, who work day in and day out, giving 100%, and making smart plays. It is a totally different situation with an average player who continued to show declining skill, careless play, and lazy skating.

That's why you blame Cleary. It spiteful and disgusting, but he is the face of a broader management problem which does not recognize the "old" and "veteran" are completely different things.

Edited by King Crane

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Gotta say that was one of the most uninspiring performances Ive seen live. You know its bad when the Sammy, Emmerton, and Cleary line was the best all night. By the 2nd period I heard many comments saying they wished theyd put the MSU game on the big screen instead of this boring game.

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Guest Crymson

I'm not sure if you're all aware that losing your top three puck-moving forwards will neuter a team's offense, and losing your top three defensive forwards will neuter your team's defense.

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I'm not sure if you're all aware that losing your top three puck-moving forwards will neuter a team's offense, and losing your top three defensive forwards will neuter your team's defense.

If Darren Helm is one of your top three puck moving forwards, then this team has a lot to worry about.

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If Darren Helm is one of your top three puck moving forwards, then this team has a lot to worry about.

He has shown top 6 caliber play this year. Just because he has been known as a defensive player doesn't mean he isn't one of our most effective forwards offensively. His speed changes the whole dynamic of this team. I'm not saying we would have won if he was in the lineup because the boys played very slow and uninspired but don't downplay the god that is Darren Helm. He is probably our 4th most important forward on this team

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You don’t think Helm’s ability to skate the puck with speed through the neutral zone almost at will counts as puck moving? No one’s saying he's Adam Oates.

He has shown top 6 caliber play this year. Just because he has been known as a defensive player doesn't mean he isn't one of our most effective forwards offensively. His speed changes the whole dynamic of this team. I'm not saying we would have won if he was in the lineup because the boys played very slow and uninspired but don't downplay the god that is Darren Helm. He is probably our 4th most important forward on this team

Helm is fast, but he's not a puck moving forward with skill. He's more of a Draper type, dump and chase with speed. He has played very well this season offensively, though. I guess you guys have a different definition of a puck moving forward than I do.

We need him back because he makes the team harder to play against.

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Guest Crymson

Helm is fast, but he's not a puck moving forward with skill. He's more of a Draper type, dump and chase with speed. He has played very well this season offensively, though. I guess you guys have a different definition of a puck moving forward than I do.

We need him back because he makes the team harder to play against.

Helm moves the puck very effectively with his speed. He plays an important part in the team's puck possession game. And he's faster, stronger, and more physical than Draper ever was.

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I'm not sure if you're all aware that losing your top three puck-moving forwards will neuter a team's offense, and losing your top three defensive forwards will neuter your team's defense.

While I mostly agree with that statement losing those players shouldnt diminish the teams compete level though. They competed against NJ. Against Florida they looked like a team just showing up to the rink to collect a paycheck. I dont care how many players are missing. There is no way the Florida freaking Panthers should outshoot Detroit by almost 2-1 at the Joe.

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Helm moves the puck very effectively with his speed. He plays an important part in the team's puck possession game. And he's faster, stronger, and more physical than Draper ever was.

I'll give you faster, though Draper had wheels too. But stronger and more physical is definitely debatable.

You don’t think Helm’s ability to skate the puck with speed through the neutral zone almost at will counts as puck moving? No one’s saying he's Adam Oates.

Honestly, no. When someone refers to a player as "puck moving" I typically think they're referring to passing, not carrying it up ice themselves. I don't mean to get into a semantics discussion, just saying that's generally how i feel like it's used, and is generally applied to defensemen.

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I'll give you faster, though Draper had wheels too. But stronger and more physical is definitely debatable.

Honestly, no. When someone refers to a player as "puck moving" I typically think they're referring to passing, not carrying it up ice themselves. I don't mean to get into a semantics discussion, just saying that's generally how i feel like it's used, and is generally applied to defensemen.

Agreed. And forwards who move the puck well are referred to as play-makers.

But getting back to Helm. He’s definitely not a play-making forward, But after Datsyuk and Zetterberg, so far this year, he’s been the third best “possession” forward IMO. Meaning he’s integral in moving the puck forward into the offensive zone, hanging on to the puck, and making offence happen. I think that Crymson’s original statement about our top 3 puck moving forwards being out is mostly accurate regardless of how we define Helm’s style of play.

edit to add: Ultimately, by definition, DeKeyser fits the bill, and his absence hurts possibly even more than Helm. Captain Obvious here, I know.

Edited by rick zombo

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