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A great scrap ends in....A high five and a hug?


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#21 roboturner

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 11:54 AM

 

Well, that's your opinion.  I've already stated mine.  

I understand the last part is my own opinion of how meaningful it was.

I understand that a fight over bad blood is more meaningful than one over two guys that bumped into each other in a contact sport.

 

I don't understand how you think a fight over an injured friend and teammate is "more fun" as you put it.

 

I don't understand your claim that is was "meaningless - (adj) without meaning, significance, purpose, or value; purposeless; insignificant:"  just because they showed some respect for each other after it was over.

 

Do you think that every playoff series that ends in a handshake line loses it's significance just because they acknowledge each others hard fought battles afterward?

 

When a guy like Mariano Rivera goes around to every ballpark during his last year as a pro and gets acknowledged by the OTHER TEAM'S FANS for what he did during his career, you think that's "meaningless" to him? or to you?? Even if you personally don't find it meaningful doesn't mean it has no meaning to anybody.


This might be getting a little heated. Just know I don't hate any of you guys.

 

That doesn't mean that I respect ideas & opinions. Some ideas & opinions are ridiculous.

 

In fact, if you confront my ideas & opinions, that will lead to a discussion. (We're on a discussion board after all. Don't forget that!)

 

  :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1:


#22 GMRwings1983

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 12:14 PM

I understand the last part is my own opinion of how meaningful it was.

I understand that a fight over bad blood is more meaningful than one over two guys that bumped into each other in a contact sport.

 

I don't understand how you think a fight over an injured friend and teammate is "more fun" as you put it.

 

I don't understand your claim that is was "meaningless - (adj) without meaning, significance, purpose, or value; purposeless; insignificant:"  just because they showed some respect for each other after it was over.

 

Do you think that every playoff series that ends in a handshake line loses it's significance just because they acknowledge each others hard fought battles afterward?

 

When a guy like Mariano Rivera goes around to every ballpark during his last year as a pro and gets acknowledged by the OTHER TEAM'S FANS for what he did during his career, you think that's "meaningless" to him? or to you?? Even if you personally don't find it meaningful doesn't mean it has no meaning to anybody.

 

 

nietzsche-friedrich.jpg


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#23 roboturner

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 01:23 PM

 

 

nietzsche-friedrich.jpg

Thanks for addressing my questions with this beautiful and elegantly worded response explaining your position. Its probably going to take awhile for me to digest all this information and reassess my position.


This might be getting a little heated. Just know I don't hate any of you guys.

 

That doesn't mean that I respect ideas & opinions. Some ideas & opinions are ridiculous.

 

In fact, if you confront my ideas & opinions, that will lead to a discussion. (We're on a discussion board after all. Don't forget that!)

 

  :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1:


#24 GMRwings1983

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 01:54 PM

Thanks for addressing my questions with this beautiful and elegantly worded response explaining your position. Its probably going to take awhile for me to digest all this information and reassess my position.

 

Nothing else to say besides the picture, but I'm not smart enough to leave it at that, so I'll add this.

 

Meaning is subjective.  I assign little meaning to the staged fight ending in hugs, and more to fights that result from bad blood and rivalries.  You disagreed with my opinion and assigned more meaning to the fight ending with the hug.  No use arguing about what does and doesn't have more meaning when it's so subjective.    

 

Did I really need to post all that?  


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#25 roboturner

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 02:32 PM

 

Nothing else to say besides the picture, but I'm not smart enough to leave it at that, so I'll add this.

 

Meaning is subjective.  I assign little meaning to the staged fight ending in hugs, and more to fights that result from bad blood and rivalries.  You disagreed with my opinion and assigned more meaning to the fight ending with the hug.  No use arguing about what does and doesn't have more meaning when it's so subjective.    

 

Did I really need to post all that?  

No, no you're right! I absolutely fully acknowledge and agree that meaning is subjective! I don't disagree that some fights have more (or less) meaning than others due to the situation and that's not what I was arguing. I was just looking for some more clarification on your position. And I asked a couple of questions about it because I don't understand why you think that and instead of answering any of them you picked something else in my post and responded with af****** picture.

 

And yes there actually is something else to say besides the picture, because the pic doesn't give me any information (other than you just don't want to explain why you think the way you do).

 

So I'll ask again:

Why do you think a fight over an injured friend and teammate is "more fun" as you put it.

Why do you think showing respect after a hard fought battle reduce everything that happened leading up to it "meaningless"  i.e. Handshakes after Playoff rounds or occasionally after fights. (You have to know that a lot of those guys give each other props when the refs finally jump in)

 

That's all I wanted to know! I'm not looking for af****** 20 page essay I just wanted a little clarification.

 

Edit: This is getting a little heated, Y'all know I don't hate any of you guys, I just love in depth discussions and I hate bad arguments that are lacking support or are full of fallacies. (and I have an admittedly abrasive personality when taking the pain meds I take for my back)

I'm just gonna leave these here :stanley: :w00t2: :) :lol: :w00t: ;) :bye1:


Edited by roboturner, 16 March 2014 - 02:44 PM.

This might be getting a little heated. Just know I don't hate any of you guys.

 

That doesn't mean that I respect ideas & opinions. Some ideas & opinions are ridiculous.

 

In fact, if you confront my ideas & opinions, that will lead to a discussion. (We're on a discussion board after all. Don't forget that!)

 

  :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1:


#26 Jersey Wing

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 03:09 PM

 

 

Edit: This is getting a little heated, Y'all know I don't hate any of you guys, I just love in depth discussions and I hate bad arguments that are lacking support or are full of fallacies. (and I have an admittedly abrasive personality when taking the pain meds I take for my back)

I'm just gonna leave these here :stanley: :w00t2: :) :lol: :w00t: ;) :bye1:

 

So give each other a high five and a hug.... 


14767451334_8f0d14d8cb_o.jpg


#27 roboturner

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 03:15 PM

So give each other a high five and a hug.... 

HAHAHAHA!!!

 

OH MY GOD that was PERFECT!!!  

 

HAHAHAHAHA oh I've got tears in my eyes!!


This might be getting a little heated. Just know I don't hate any of you guys.

 

That doesn't mean that I respect ideas & opinions. Some ideas & opinions are ridiculous.

 

In fact, if you confront my ideas & opinions, that will lead to a discussion. (We're on a discussion board after all. Don't forget that!)

 

  :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1:


#28 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 03:34 PM

Idiotic.

There's a difference between having respect for your opponent (in the sense that you won't continue to throw punches once he's on the ice or the linesmen have stepped in) and making out with him after the fight. It makes it look theatrical. I get that guys wanna set the tone for the game, but that is ridiculous.
"Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct in which the score is kept."

RIP Bob Probert
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RIP Derek Boogaard
RIP Rick Rypien

#29 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 03:51 PM

Idiotic.

There's a difference between having respect for your opponent (in the sense that you won't continue to throw punches once he's on the ice or the linesmen have stepped in) and making out with him after the fight. It makes it look theatrical. I get that guys wanna set the tone for the game, but that is ridiculous.

This is the LNAH- they fight for the fans as often as for hockey reasons. Few, if any, of these players are making it past the ECHL- although some have played at higher levels in the past- and the league has a tradition of physical hockey and fighting.



#30 roboturner

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 03:53 PM

Idiotic.

There's a difference between having respect for your opponent (in the sense that you won't continue to throw punches once he's on the ice or the linesmen have stepped in) and making out with him after the fight. It makes it look theatrical. I get that guys wanna set the tone for the game, but that is ridiculous.

OK. Well I'll ask you the question then too.

 

Why do you think showing respect after a hard fought battle is "idiotic & ridiculous"?

i.e. Handshakes after Playoff rounds

or

occasionally after fights (like when both guys are tired and finally say to each other "OK, we both got our punches in and I'm done. Lets let the linesmen in here and end this")

 

To me those are both similar situation and if you don't think so then by all means explain to me why you don't think they are comparable.


This might be getting a little heated. Just know I don't hate any of you guys.

 

That doesn't mean that I respect ideas & opinions. Some ideas & opinions are ridiculous.

 

In fact, if you confront my ideas & opinions, that will lead to a discussion. (We're on a discussion board after all. Don't forget that!)

 

  :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1:


#31 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 04:05 PM

This is the LNAH- they fight for the fans as often as for hockey reasons. Few, if any, of these players are making it past the ECHL- although some have played at higher levels in the past- and the league has a tradition of physical hockey and fighting.

There's nothing wrong with physical hockey and fighting, but if I want to watch a staged joke where everyone is best buds at the end of the day, I'll watch WWE. Granted, I don't want to watch barbarians kill each other in constant bench-clearing brawls. I want hard-hitting, honest, passionate hockey. High fiving and hugging your opponent after you just beat the hell out of him is not passion.
"Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct in which the score is kept."

RIP Bob Probert
RIP Wade Belak
RIP Derek Boogaard
RIP Rick Rypien

#32 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 04:19 PM

OK. Well I'll ask you the question then too.
 
Why do you think showing respect after a hard fought battle is "idiotic & ridiculous"?
i.e. Handshakes after Playoff rounds
or
occasionally after fights (like when both guys are tired and finally say to each other "OK, we both got our punches in and I'm done. Lets let the linesmen in here and end this")
 
To me those are both similar situation and if you don't think so then by all means explain to me why you don't think they are comparable.

Like I said, I don't mind guys having mutual respect for each other. Hugging and high-fiving creates an atmosphere where the game is too friendly. That being said, I don't think the mutual respect shown by not pounding a guy when he is down makes anything too friendly.
"Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct in which the score is kept."

RIP Bob Probert
RIP Wade Belak
RIP Derek Boogaard
RIP Rick Rypien

#33 GMRwings1983

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 04:58 PM

No, no you're right! I absolutely fully acknowledge and agree that meaning is subjective! I don't disagree that some fights have more (or less) meaning than others due to the situation and that's not what I was arguing. I was just looking for some more clarification on your position. And I asked a couple of questions about it because I don't understand why you think that and instead of answering any of them you picked something else in my post and responded with af****** picture.

 

And yes there actually is something else to say besides the picture, because the pic doesn't give me any information (other than you just don't want to explain why you think the way you do).

 

So I'll ask again:

Why do you think a fight over an injured friend and teammate is "more fun" as you put it.

Why do you think showing respect after a hard fought battle reduce everything that happened leading up to it "meaningless"  i.e. Handshakes after Playoff rounds or occasionally after fights. (You have to know that a lot of those guys give each other props when the refs finally jump in)

 

That's all I wanted to know! I'm not looking for af****** 20 page essay I just wanted a little clarification.

 

Edit: This is getting a little heated, Y'all know I don't hate any of you guys, I just love in depth discussions and I hate bad arguments that are lacking support or are full of fallacies. (and I have an admittedly abrasive personality when taking the pain meds I take for my back)

I'm just gonna leave these here :stanley: :w00t2: :) :lol: :w00t: ;) :bye1:

 

A picture of Nietzsche explains everything perfectly.  At least it does for me.

 

The answer to your first bolded question is because it's more fun for me to watch hockey fights when there's a heated rivalry between teams and when a player steps in to enforce for his teammate.  It's what I think of when it comes to rivalries and playoff series.  So yes, it's more fun for me when a fight happens in that situation than any other.  Why is it more fun for me?  I don't know.  Because it's what I prefer.    

 

The second question is also a subjective answer.  I understand these guys are buddies and have respect for one another, but they made it look way too theatrical.  I've seen guys like Probert or Domi pat guys on the back after a fight, but these guys went over the top.  Also, remember that this is the LNAH, where every game seems to have a quota of at least 3 or 4 fights.  It's a joke league.    

 

Stuff like this is why I've grown to like staged fights less over the years.      


Edited by GMRwings1983, 16 March 2014 - 04:59 PM.

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#34 Mckinley25

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 05:20 PM

Idiotic.


As opposed to fighting in general?

#35 Hockeymom1960

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 06:11 PM

As opposed to fighting in general?

 

Fighting in hockey with a purpose is not idiotic, imho.



#36 Mckinley25

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 07:16 PM

 
Fighting in hockey with a purpose is not idiotic, imho.


Fair enough, I think it is.

#37 toby91_ca

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 08:25 AM

You think a fight due to bad blood is "more fun"?? Can you elaborate on how going after a guy while your teammate and possible friend is lying on the ice unconscious is "more fun" than one where you are fighting with mutual respect and pumping up your team and crowd?

 

"meaningless" because they got their teams and crowd into the game, then showed some respect for the guy who spent his career sticking up for his teammates and is retiring after this season?? Is that how you define the word "meaningless"? I think the word you're looking for is "meaningful". This was more meaningful than most hockey fights I've seen.

I think the argument that people have against staged fights is that the only reason they happen is for the fighting itself.  A lot of people want fighting out of the game, a lot of people like it the way it is and a lot of people don't mind fighting in the game if is the result of tempers flaring, heat of battle, etc.

 

Those people would respond to your comment by say "of course it doesn't make the fight more fun, but that's the point, we didn't come to watch the fight".  If a fight happens because of something that's happend in the game, fine, but if it's a fight just to have a fight....that's different.

 

Not 100% sure where I sit on the fence yet to be honest, but there are certainly folks that have their opinions on this.  No point in arguing about it, one person's opinion against another, simple as that.



#38 roboturner

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:11 AM

I think the argument that people have against staged fights is that the only reason they happen is for the fighting itself.  A lot of people want fighting out of the game, a lot of people like it the way it is and a lot of people don't mind fighting in the game if is the result of tempers flaring, heat of battle, etc.

 

Those people would respond to your comment by say "of course it doesn't make the fight more fun, but that's the point, we didn't come to watch the fight".  If a fight happens because of something that's happend in the game, fine, but if it's a fight just to have a fight....that's different.

 

Not 100% sure where I sit on the fence yet to be honest, but there are certainly folks that have their opinions on this.  No point in arguing about it, one person's opinion against another, simple as that.

I'm not sure where I stand on it either, that's why I wanted more information about that position.

 

I guess a fight like that would be more exciting, but not really "more fun" as he put it. If you have one fight over bad blood and one fight to entertain the fans, I would suspect that the one for the fans would be more fun, as it's whole purpose was to entertain and make the game memorable, enjoyable, and yes more fun for the fans.

 

I still don't really understand why showing some respect afterwards (again like they all do after every playoff series) somehow reduces the fight (or games) to "meaningless". I understand it could make you think its theatrical, but having all the players shake hands and take a curtain call could be considered making it look theatrical as well. Should we get rid of the handshakes, lest the playoffs look like a bunch of actors just playing their scripted part in order to get the league's chosen champion to the Cup?

 

And finally yes you're right it is just people's opinions. But there is a point in arguing/discussing it. People's opinions can change after hearing arguments from both positions (and as I said I'm not even sure where I stand on the matter).

 

P.S. and thanks to GMR for finally giving me some actual information


This might be getting a little heated. Just know I don't hate any of you guys.

 

That doesn't mean that I respect ideas & opinions. Some ideas & opinions are ridiculous.

 

In fact, if you confront my ideas & opinions, that will lead to a discussion. (We're on a discussion board after all. Don't forget that!)

 

  :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1:


#39 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:38 AM

I think the argument that people have against staged fights is that the only reason they happen is for the fighting itself.  A lot of people want fighting out of the game, a lot of people like it the way it is and a lot of people don't mind fighting in the game if is the result of tempers flaring, heat of battle, etc.

 

Those people would respond to your comment by say "of course it doesn't make the fight more fun, but that's the point, we didn't come to watch the fight".  If a fight happens because of something that's happend in the game, fine, but if it's a fight just to have a fight....that's different.

 

Not 100% sure where I sit on the fence yet to be honest, but there are certainly folks that have their opinions on this.  No point in arguing about it, one person's opinion against another, simple as that.

 

Exactly. 

 

When I watch that fight, I see two marginal players high fiving because they think they justified their spot on the team for a little longer.  

 

I think fighting belongs in the game but could do without the staged fights.  It's not that fights from tempers flaring are better, but as you point out it's that it comes from actually playing the game.  Staged fights are the equivalent of riding around on ATV's between periods shooting t-shirts into the stands.  It's stopping the hockey game for a pre-planned spectacle.







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