Ovechkin and ES

[marcaractac 3,963]

I think Ovie is singled out because, you basically really have to suck defensively to lead the league in goals and lead in minus. Yeah, stats can be misleading, but in this case? It seems indicative of his play.

Exactly. I'd never expect him to become a dominant 2 way forward. But at some point you have to at least make an effort on the back check. That isn't a way of sacrificing offense or changing how he plays, it would be a case of simply giving 100% and giving a damn.

[Richdg 267]

Playmaker, his line mate Backstrom is considered a good defensive C and is -19, whlebeing on the ice for all of Ovie's goals. In this case yes the +/- is deciving because it is their BL that sucks.

yes being a great defensive forward does hurt your offensive numbers. Always has. Pick any superstar you want to. They come in as great offensive players, rack up serious numbers. Then as they mature they start playing D more and their O numbers drop. Yes there are always exceptions to every rule.

[toby91_ca 620]

yes being a great defensive forward does hurt your offensive numbers. Always has. Pick any superstar you want to. They come in as great offensive players, rack up serious numbers. Then as they mature they start playing D more and their O numbers drop. Yes there are always exceptions to every rule.

Not so sure about that. Not sure what superstars you are thinking about. I think more often than not, O numbers drop due to normal aging process, change in overall league scoring, etc.

[sibiriak 84]

Not so sure about that. Not sure what superstars you are thinking about. I think more often than not, O numbers drop due to normal aging process, change in overall league scoring, etc.

Come on, if you play forward, you can either play safe, not go for 40-60 pucks, be in front of your check always, or you can take more chances. In the former case, your +/- will be better, but your offense will suffer. In the latter case, your scoring will be higher, but your +/- will suffer even more. The reason that risky defensive play hurts the +/- more than helps it, is that only in a small minority of scoring chances the puck actually goes in. So if you screw up defensively by cherry picking or trying for a low percentage interception, you may get a scoring chance say 10% of the time, and you will score on 5% of those, your scoring goes up 0.5%. But 90% of the time your screw up results in a scoring chance against, and if the opposition scores on 5% of them, your +/- goes down by 4.5%. That is not intended as a mathematical proof but rather as an illustration of my point.

Having said that, OV's play on that goal was revolting. I hate playing pick-up hockey because a lot of people play like that.

[GoOzzieGo 22]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=10723932&categoryid=2459791

This guy has turned into a joke.

[Richdg 267]

Just thinking of other guys that were known to be lazy at times, in their end.... Hull, Federov, Modano, Mario, Jagr, Selanne, Bure, Yzerman for the first 10 years of his career, Hossa, etc etc..... Most of those guys didn't learn to play D or on every shift until later in their careers.

Now I do wonder how many on here complaining about ovie efforts defend Franzen? How many defended Federov? How many would change their tune if ovie was here?

BTW, I hope Oates pisses him off and he demands a trade. A line of Z-Datsyuk-Ovie would be the best in the NHL, and it wouldn't even be close!

[kipwinger 8,754]

Just thinking of other guys that were known to be lazy at times, in their end.... Hull, Federov, Modano, Mario, Jagr, Selanne, Bure, Yzerman for the first 10 years of his career, Hossa, etc etc..... Most of those guys didn't learn to play D or on every shift until later in their careers.

Now I do wonder how many on here complaining about ovie efforts defend Franzen? How many defended Federov? How many would change their tune if ovie was here?

BTW, I hope Oates pisses him off and he demands a trade. A line of Z-Datsyuk-Ovie would be the best in the NHL, and it wouldn't even be close!

When you talk about Fedorov are you talking about the two time Selke Trophy winning Sergei Fedorov? The one who learned to play hockey in the Soviet Red Army system which essentially created the "two way forward"? That Sergei Fedorov?

[toby91_ca 620]

When you talk about Fedorov are you talking about the two time Selke Trophy winning Sergei Fedorov? The one who learned to play hockey in the Soviet Red Army system which essentially created the "two way forward"? That Sergei Fedorov?

That caught my eye as well. He was almost the best two-way player in the league from his first game.

[Richdg 267]

When you talk about Fedorov are you talking about the two time Selke Trophy winning Sergei Fedorov? The one who learned to play hockey in the Soviet Red Army system which essentially created the "two way forward"? That Sergei Fedorov?

Yes that Federov. The one that disappeared for weeks at a time, showed no heart in 25% of the games he played. The guy that might have been the second most talented hockey player in terms of natural talent all time, that pouted around and didn't care much of the time. Yes that Fedorov. The guy that we brought Liranov in to motivate, that Fedorov. It is amazing how soon people forget who and what he was and the hockey worlds take on him.

[Opie 308]

Yes that Federov. The one that disappeared for weeks at a time, showed no heart in 25% of the games he played. The guy that might have been the second most talented hockey player in terms of natural talent all time, that pouted around and didn't care much of the time. Yes that Fedorov. The guy that we brought Liranov in to motivate, that Fedorov. It is amazing how soon people forget who and what he was and the hockey worlds take on him.

As some one who dogs Feds for his lack of interest, there is no way you can group him in with the likes of Ovie and Hull.

[kipwinger 8,754]

Yes that Federov. The one that disappeared for weeks at a time, showed no heart in 25% of the games he played. The guy that might have been the second most talented hockey player in terms of natural talent all time, that pouted around and didn't care much of the time. Yes that Fedorov. The guy that we brought Liranov in to motivate, that Fedorov. It is amazing how soon people forget who and what he was and the hockey worlds take on him.

You weren't talking about his attitude. You said he didn't play defense. That's just not accurate. Now you're trying to change your tune and make it about his attitude or motivation or something. I'd agree with what you said about Shanny or a young Stevie Y not playing defense. But Fedorov was one of the most talented two way forwards in the history of the game and his defensive skills have never been criticized by anyone (other than you). I don't know what else he'd need to do defensively if you aren't convinced by the two Selke Trophies or the fact that he actually played defenseman for three different National Hockey League teams.

Edited April 4, 2014 by kipwinger

[Richdg 267]

Here is a nice old story about how Stevie and fedorov learned to play D and the enigma that was fedorov. Of course it is from the lier MA but what the heck.

http://mitchalbom.com/d/journalism/2318/being-sergei-fedorovhes-reluctant-enigma-wrapped-hockey-star

You weren't talking about his attitude. You said he didn't play defense. That's just not accurate. Now you're trying to change your tune and make it about his attitude or motivation or something. I'd agree with what you said about Shanny or a young Stevie Y not playing defense. But Fedorov was one of the most talented two way forwards in the history of the game and his defensive skills have never been criticized by anyone (other than you). I don't know what else he'd need to do defensively if you aren't convinced by the two Selke Trophies or the fact that he actually played defenseman for three different National Hockey League teams.

No I didn't, but with the way I wrote it I can see how you thought I said that. Fedorov was either on and giving effort in every part of the game or he was off and should have been left in the locker room. He played D and O when HE wanted to.

[Dabura 12,232]

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/04/ovechkin-i-think-everybody-quit-on-the-play/

“It is what it is,” said the Capitals’ captain, per CSN Washington. “He’s the head coach. I get the blame for it. In that moment I think everybody quit on the play.”

..........

Edited April 4, 2014 by Dabura

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/04/ovechkin-i-think-everybody-quit-on-the-play/

..........

I understand why they did it from a marketing perspective, but from a team perspective it was a big mistake to name Ovechkin captain. He'd be better served being able to be a loose cannon and not have to worry about answering for or leading the team. Then it's at least more of a sideshow instead of the main event.

After being singled out for quitting on the play (which he absolutely did), his response is to say everyone quit. He's a joke of a captain. Maybe try leading by example OV?

[Dabura 12,232]

I agree, harold.

What really amazes me about Washington is their total lack of quality veteran leadership. Guys who've been around the block, been deep in the playoffs, know what it takes to win. A roster that lacks true leadership and experience can very easily fall into the trap of self-delusion and denial and "shifting goal posts" (as Mike Gillis puts it) and such. I think that's largely what we're seeing in Washington. Who in that organization can really step up and call the team out without everyone thinking, "Wait, remind me how much you've won at the NHL level...? Oh, right - nothing." I mean, this may not be fair, but even Adam Oates - while truly a phenomenal player (and, ironically, one of the all-time great set-up men) - never won the Cup.

[wings4thecup06 504]

I don't know where you can pin the Caps lack of success, but they sure as hell are a mess. I was really happy when Ovechkin started scoring loads again, as there's no greater sight than watching a true sniper bury the biscuit on a night to night basis.

That said, I'm slowly losing my respect for AO, and this is another example. Personally, I believe you put in what you get out, and with Ovechkin, his lack of effort of D is really hurting. NOt only that, but his captaincy has appeared to be 'token' more than anything. He was clearly the only one who quit on that play, to then call out the rest of his team to cover his own rear end is a joke. This team is in a fight for their playoff lives, and the captain can't even take one for the team?

[Dabura 12,232]

[Dabura 12,232]

The Arguments For and Against Firing Adam Oates [Russian Machine Never Breaks]

Rink Roundtable: Changing Suits [Japers' Rink]

[wings87 1,290]

The Caps should just swallow their pride and take the Captency away from Ovie. Give it to Backstrom.

[Dabura 12,232]

Alex Ovechkin of Capitals makes excuses [Allan Muir, SI.com]

It should have been a lay-up.

Meeting with the Washington media today for the first time since being called out for quitting on a play by his coach, Adam Oates, all Alex Ovechkin had to do was offer a note of remorse. Just the slightest hint that he grasped his culpability on a goal that snowballed into a crushing 5-0 loss to Dallas on Tuesday night.

Something simple, like this:

“You know what? Oatesy was right. My lack of hustle on that play was inexcusable and it cost us a goal. As the captain of this team, I have to hold myself to a higher standard. I owe that much to my teammates, my fans and the organization. I’ll never be a defensive wizard, but I can be better than I’ve shown. And I will be.”

Instead, Ovechkin offered this as an excuse:

“He’s the head coach and I get the blame from it, but in that moment I think everybody quit on the play.”

Ho. Lee. Sheet.

It's time to strip the C off Alex Ovechkin [Muir]

But new faces or even a new direction won’t be enough to cure what ails this organization.

Its culture needs a reboot.

And that starts with ripping the C off the sweater of captain Alex Ovechkin.

There are 70 million reasons why that’s the tough call — one for every dollar that remains on the contract that pays him $10 million per year through the 2020-21 season — not to mention that embarrassing your franchise player is a seriously risky move.

But there is one very compelling reason why the Capitals have to do it anyway. For all his charisma and once-in-a-generation scoring touch, Ovechkin has shown time and again that he’s just not cut out for the role of team leader.

[wings87 1,290]

Ovie just can't stay at captain, if the Caps want to win.

Here's an interesting question: Not that I get the impression he wants to go back to Russia, but if the Caps strip the C from him; would he be embarrassed enough to want to go play in the KHL?

[Euro_Twins 4,485]

Ovie just can't stay at captain, if the Caps want to win.

Here's an interesting question: Not that I get the impression he wants to go back to Russia, but if the Caps strip the C from him; would he be embarrassed enough to want to go play in the KHL?

He would most certainly demand a trade at the least. I can't see him not being Pissed.

[wings87 1,290]

He would most certainly demand a trade at the least. I can't see him not being Pissed.

I can't think of a team that would take him, his ego, and his contract in a trade. The only GM crazy enough to do it might be Snow.

[Dabura 12,232]

Bump him down to an A, give Backstrom the C. IMHO.

[wings87 1,290]

Bump him down to an A, give Backstrom the C. IMHO.

But a lowercase a.