Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Regardless of whether Detroit want Quincey back or not, I feel like he wants to explore UFAgency.

In any case, if a defensemen is signed, it should be for 2 years. In 2 years one or two of Marchenko, Ouellet, or Sproul (or Jensen or Backman) should be ready.

My money is on Kenny signing a older veteran or two to a short-term deal this July. A Scuderi/Zidlicky/Boyle type guy that's not going to be looking for a 5-7 year deal.

Is Scuderi a UFA this summer? I'd take him as our 3/4 guy for a year for sure.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Is Scuderi a UFA this summer? I'd take him as our 3/4 guy for a year for sure.

Sorry everyone. My bad. Scuderi is locked up in Pittsburgh for the next three or four years.

Regardless, there are options out there.

Normally, with Kenny’s track record, the thought of signing veterans makes me cringe a bit.

BUT I really think that that’s what this team needs on the back end. If Holland can land one or two guys at two years max deals, sign me up.

Kronwall - Ericsson

DeKeyser - Zidlicky

Smith - Robidas

Lashoff

It’s not sexy, but it’s a hell of a lot more stable than what we have now.

edit: that also adds two righties. good times.

Edited February 11, 2014 by rick zombo

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Sorry everyone. My bad. Scuderi is locked up in Pittsburgh for the next three or four years.

Regardless, there are options out there.

Normally, with Kenny’s track record, the thought of signing veterans makes me cringe a bit.

BUT I really think that that’s what this team needs on the back end. If Holland can land one or two guys at two years max deals, sign me up.

Kronwall - Ericsson

DeKeyser - Zidlicky

Smith - Robidas

Lashoff

It’s not sexy, but it’s a hell of a lot more stable than what we have now.

edit: that also adds two righties. good times.

I like the idea of Robidas. Zidlicky is getting a bit old and slow for my liking. Sign Robidas and bring up Ouellet and I'd be very happy.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

I'm excited to see what this Athanasiou kid can do in the future at the pro level. Fun comparison:

Mantha - GP-44 G-47 A-50 P-97

Athanasiou - GP-49 G-35 A-37 P-72

Key Points:

1. Athanasiou plays in a lower scoring league (OHL vs QMJHL)

2. Only 1 month difference in age between them.

3. Athanasiou has Helm-like speed.

I am not saying these prospects are on the same level. They're not. More so just trying to bring to light the accomplishments of Athanasiou. Having a huge breakout season.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

I will taking credit for mentioning Robidas first! (especially if they sign him!) Just kidding!

But, the bottom line is, either we need to make our defense better or get that elite goaltender to make up for it. We seem to be stuck with Average Jimmy© so we have to address the D. I think the O can hold it's own. I would LOVE a 40 goal scorer in here to play with Pav, but if this team can score 4-5 goals a game, they should win most as long as they have a staunch D. Whether or not Holland can address that March 5, or have to wait until draft day or July, who knows.

If we are going to stay with Average Jimmy© , then IMO we need TWO pieces back on the D. A legit #1/#2 AND a legit #3/#4. I love Danny D, and he will be one of our best in the near future, but right now, he is an awesome #5. I also believe Kronner is a better #2 than he is #1, heck, maybe an even better suited #3. Big E can be a #2, but is moreso that #3/#4 guy. Laser is a #7 and is probably happy with his role on this team.

#1 - Kronner

Big E - #4

Smith - Danny D

Laser

that is what we need to keep our GAA down, because we have witnessed the past two season that Average Jimmy© doesn't make the timely save...he makes some big saves, but not at the right time. He hasn't stolen a game in about 2 and half seasons. But, Holland has given him that NTC and everyone seems to believe Holland will never trade him, so, we're stuck with him. Maybe he gets better, but we cannot take that chance with our current D. We need upgrades and we need it yesterday...

Edited February 11, 2014 by LeftWinger

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

I will taking credit for mentioning Robidas first! (especially if they sign him!) Just kidding!

But, the bottom line is, either we need to make our defense better or get that elite goaltender to make up for it. We seem to be stuck with Average Jimmy© so we have to address the D. I think the O can hold it's own. I would LOVE a 40 goal scorer in here to play with Pav, but if this team can score 4-5 goals a game, they should win most as long as they have a staunch D. Whether or not Holland can address that March 5, or have to wait until draft day or July, who knows.

If we are going to stay with Average Jimmy© , then IMO we need TWO pieces back on the D. A legit #1/#2 AND a legit #3/#4. I love Danny D, and he will be one of our best in the near future, but right now, he is an awesome #5. I also believe Kronner is a better #2 than he is #1, heck, maybe an even better suited #3. Big E can be a #2, but is moreso that #3/#4 guy. Laser is a #7 and is probably happy with his role on this team.

#1 - Kronner

Big E - #4

Smith - Danny D

Laser

that is what we need to keep our GAA down, because we have witnessed the past two season that Average Jimmy© doesn't make the timely save...he makes some big saves, but not at the right time. He hasn't stolen a game in about 2 and half seasons. But, Holland has given him that NTC and everyone seems to believe Holland will never trade him, so, we're stuck with him. Maybe he gets better, but we cannot take that chance with our current D. We need upgrades and we need it yesterday...

Putting that much blame on one player is pretty short-sighted. He'll step up in the second half.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Son of a Wing

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Mark Stuart is a guy I'd like to see on the 3rd pairing. Also, Chris Stewart is a guy that plays a power forward style that we desperately lack up front.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

I'm excited to see what this Athanasiou kid can do in the future at the pro level. Fun comparison:

Mantha - GP-44 G-47 A-50 P-97

Athanasiou - GP-49 G-35 A-37 P-72

Key Points:

1. Athanasiou plays in a lower scoring league (OHL vs QMJHL)

2. Only 1 month difference in age between them.

3. Athanasiou has Helm-like speed.

I am not saying these prospects are on the same level. They're not. More so just trying to bring to light the accomplishments of Athanasiou. Having a huge breakout season.

And that's without Mark Scheifele on the Colts with him. May have to make a trip to see him play.

[dirtydangles 1,328]

I'm excited to see what this Athanasiou kid can do in the future at the pro level. Fun comparison:

Mantha - GP-44 G-47 A-50 P-97

Athanasiou - GP-49 G-35 A-37 P-72

Key Points:

1. Athanasiou plays in a lower scoring league (OHL vs QMJHL)

2. Only 1 month difference in age between them.

3. Athanasiou has Helm-like speed.

I am not saying these prospects are on the same level. They're not. More so just trying to bring to light the accomplishments of Athanasiou. Having a huge breakout season.

Solid Post. AA will be a 4th liner at worst in the nhl - and that was before his offensive explosion. His wheels alone make him valuable but this current tear he is on could make him a legit 3rd/2nd liner. I am excited to see this kid develop.

[Guest Sinden]

Mark Stuart is a guy I'd like to see on the 3rd pairing. Also, Chris Stewart is a guy that plays a power forward style that we desperately lack up front.

Unfortunately if traded the Blues would be doing so to "upgrade" their forward group.

[dirtydangles 1,328]

I honestly can't believe Van fans think they deserve anything more than Franzen for Edler. Maybe A Callahan or Ferraro, but they sure as f*** aren't touching Mantha or anyone from the kid line for f****** Edler.

edit: after read more of Van fans posts, they are f****** idiots. Purposed ideas: Franzen+ Mantha/Nyquist/Tatar+1st for Edler.......LOL really??

some are wanting Nyquist, Smith, 1st - I wouldn't trade Nyquist straight up for Edler at this point. And our 1st isn't just a throw in considering our current place in the standings. The best package I could justify for Edler is Pulkkinen + Backman + 2nd + Cap dump. That is all.

Unfortunately if traded the Blues would be doing so to "upgrade" their forward group.

I've always seen stewart as a bone-headed type player that takes dumb penalties and doesn't bring it every game. I think if the Blues could get a hard working skilled winger they would bite. I don't really love Stewart enough to give up assets that could be better used elsewhere.

[Guest Sinden]

I firmly believe this is the way to go, assuming we can't get a young stud. Boyle, Timonen, Salo - a high-class veteran stopgap who can play in the top four, if not on the top pairing. I'd actually take it a step further and say Girardi + a vet. Load up on D. Two additions, one long-term and one short. (Even when [insert promising Griffins defenseman] is ready, he's going to be a rookie. That's realistically two or three more seasons - on top of his rookie season - until he's the real difference maker we need. See: Brendan Smith.)

On a related note - I had a really interesting chat with a Blues fan yesterday. (I have friends in low places.) He had a good, surprisingly well-informed (I'm thinking maybe he's a closet Wings fan) take on why we keep losing these games that we should be winning. He said, if you look at all of the aforementioned losses, e.g. this latest one to the Bolts, what do they mostly come down to? Is it that we just don't have enough firepower up front? Is it that Howard is clearly an AHL goalie? Or is it that our defense isn't up to snuff and is prone to making costly mistakes? Like, the Bolts game - were we overpowered by their monstrous forward corps? Were our forwards clearly clueless, no match for St. Louis, Killorn et al.? Or did the Bolts weather the storms they needed to weather defensively, then capitalize on their opportunities, which they knew our mediocre blue line would be giving them in bunches? I look at the Superbowl game against the Caps - we can score, we can't defend. I look at the most recent loss to the Panthers, 5-4 in the shootout - we can score, we can't defend. I look at the 'hawks game - it should've been done in regulation, but Brendan Smith is Brendan Smith. We can score, but we can't defend.

Even without our top goal-scorer (Franzen) and a second-line center, we can score. Yet, even with a fully healthy blue line, we can't defend. I know this isn't really a revelation to anyone here, but I think it's interesting that we're starting to get a better idea of what our team really looks like, and all those scoring woes we thought might be the death of us really aren't much of a concern at this point, at least in relation to our defensive woes. I also think it's interesting that we seem to be going against the grain/conventional wisdom in thinking we can compete for the Cup without a rock-solid defense and/or goalie. Boston's got a rock-solid defense and a world-class goalie. The Blues have got a rock-solid defense and a very good goalie. The Rangers have got a rock-solid defense and a world-class goalie. The Blackhawks have got a rock-solid defense and a very good goalie.

One thing I have to wonder is, Why would Alfie burn all of his bridges in Ottawa to win a Cup with us when our blue line isn't where it needs to be (as demonstrated last season)? I guess what I'm wondering is if he might've asked something to the effect of "That defense...will you be looking to bring someone in?" Perhaps he knows something we don't. Perhaps Holland has been planning on adding someone at the trade deadline all along.

I agree with you that the Detroit Redwings have a good forward group and that defensive play is the weak point. With adding Mule and Weiss to the lineup the Redwings will score even more. With a not 42 year old looking Datsyuk we will be an offensive machine. I think the defensive play is a weak point because with the injuries we haven't had our system in place all year. We also have too many "kids" Jurco is fun to watch and all, but he is not ready. Howard also played like garbage for the majority of the year. With getting healthy we will not have as many kids in the line up. We will have Datsyuk at center. We should establish more of a system and Howard should play better. (he looks way more confident). With all of this I am expecting better defensive play.

A top four d man could be coming if Holland bites and oh boy that would make things real interesting.

[Buppy 1,720]

No on Callahan. he isn't worth it. Always hurt, has he ever scored 30 goals in a single season? No.

as for team needs, what? Our O is ranked 19th, the D is ranked 15th. What do we need to improve? How about the ST's? The PP is 22nd and the PK is 10th. Please stop with the injuries, both/all have been hurt. Forwards, D, and G. Again, go back to 08 and 09 when we made/won cups. top 3 in O both years. Top 5 in D one year and 20th in D the other. It is all about scoring goals. Scoring 3+ goals a game is king in the NHL. We win 75%+ of our games when we score 3 or more goals. We lose 90+ % of our games when we score 2 or fewer goals per game.

While scoring tends to rule in the regular season, strong defense is more important in the playoffs.

Secondly, our injuries up front have been much worse than on defense.

Third, the two are not entirely separate. The top scoring teams this year all have defenses that score more than ours. About 12 more goals and almost 30 more points on average. The high-scoring Wings teams of the past also had high-scoring defense.

Fact is we need to improve both areas (and goaltending needs to be better as well). On defense, we need to improve in both ends. At forward, we're mostly fine in our own end but need to be better on offense.

I'm inclined to believe we'll see more improvement from returning forwards than we will from returning defensemen. Barring trades or buyouts, we have 2 openings at forward (or 3 if we count Tootoo) and 1 on defense. We have 4 more forwards either out of options or NHL ready, 1 defenseman out of options, and 2 or 3 maybe ready, but I don't think any of them really meet our needs. We should leave some depth in GR, and if any of the three guys out of options make the team, it should be in the place of a current player. So still 2 forwards, 1 defense. No matter how good you think Vanek is, he can't fill all three spots.

We need to replace Quincey, with someone better. A high-end two-way defenseman would be perfect, but there aren't any. So a good shut-down guy is the next best option. For offense from the back-end, we can hope that Kindl, Smith, or Almquist can provide that but I'm not too optimistic. I'd rather see us add someone else. Again, no matter how badly you think we need Vanek, or how awesome you think he is, he can't fill a vacant spot on defense or upgrade Kindl or Smith.

At forward, we probably need one penalty killer, though Sheahan, Abby, or Weiss might be able to take that role. Glenny might take this spot, though I'd rather he stay in GR unless he replaces Miller or Andy. Ferraro or Callahan could take it, but again I'd rather they replace Miller or Andy if they earn it. Tootoo I'd like to have on the roster, in the scratch rotation (if we're lucky enough to have one), though I wouldn't be heartbroken if one of the kids takes his spot. Still, I think we want someone who can kill penalties for one of the FA adds, so we don't have to play Miller and Andy every game, or rely too heavily on Sheahan, Abby, or Weiss (or Pav and Hank). This is where I like Kulemin. Worst case he's a PKer with a bit of offense who throws his body around. Best case it's the same but more than just a bit of offense.

For the second forward we just need someone who can score. There's your spot for Vanek, if we can get him. I think he'll want too big a commitment, but hopefully I'm wrong.

[Andy Pred 48 337]

Update on Pav;

After missing Monday night's practice the Detroit Red Wings star takes his first steps on the Olympic ice, centers Kovalchuk and Radulov on Tuesday morning.

Now theres a thought, !!

Edited February 11, 2014 by Andy Pred 48

[kipwinger 8,772]

some are wanting Nyquist, Smith, 1st - I wouldn't trade Nyquist straight up for Edler at this point. And our 1st isn't just a throw in considering our current place in the standings. The best package I could justify for Edler is Pulkkinen + Backman + 2nd + Cap dump. That is all.

I've always seen stewart as a bone-headed type player that takes dumb penalties and doesn't bring it every game. I think if the Blues could get a hard working skilled winger they would bite. I don't really love Stewart enough to give up assets that could be better used elsewhere.

I agree that Nyquist, Smith, and 1st is too expensive for Edler. However, Pulkkinen, Backman and a 2nd is WAY too low. You'd get laughed off the phone. If that's all you'd be willing to give for him, then why bother? Why not just say, "Edler's not worth anything more than unproven b-level prospects and garbage" and leave it at that. Either Nyquist + 1st, or Smith + Pulkkinen + 1st would be about fair for Edler at this stage of the game.

Secondly, I don't know where you get the idea that Stewart is "bone-headed", takes "dumb penalties", or doesn't bring it. He puts up very big numbers for a guy getting third line minutes, leading one to assume he does in fact "bring it". Also, he's only topped 100 penalty minutes twice in his career, and in each instance a significant portion of those minutes were for fighting. It's not like he's out there taking all kinds of hookings, slashing, tripping, etc. (bad penalties). He takes fewer penalties per 60 minutes than Abby does, and produces about 50000000000000000% more, while still bringing the physical part of the game that presumably makes Abby so valuable.

Edited February 11, 2014 by kipwinger

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Stewart had his minutes cut for lazy play and because he doesn't get along with Hitchcock. Given that Babcock and Hitchcock are similar coaches and friends I don't think Stewart would be much better off here.

[Dabura 12,232]

At forward, we probably need one penalty killer, though Sheahan, Abby, or Weiss might be able to take that role. Glenny might take this spot, though I'd rather he stay in GR unless he replaces Miller or Andy. Ferraro or Callahan could take it, but again I'd rather they replace Miller or Andy if they earn it. Tootoo I'd like to have on the roster, in the scratch rotation (if we're lucky enough to have one), though I wouldn't be heartbroken if one of the kids takes his spot. Still, I think we want someone who can kill penalties for one of the FA adds, so we don't have to play Miller and Andy every game, or rely too heavily on Sheahan, Abby, or Weiss (or Pav and Hank). This is where I like Kulemin. Worst case he's a PKer with a bit of offense who throws his body around. Best case it's the same but more than just a bit of offense.

Steve Ott, IMHO.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Dabura

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Stewart had his minutes cut for lazy play and because he doesn't get along with Hitchcock. Given that Babcock and Hitchcock are similar coaches and friends I don't think Stewart would be much better off here.

And Abdelkader doesn't get outworked by anyone, ever and is improving drastically offensively, which is also what makes Abs so valuable.

[Dabura 12,232]

Stewart had his minutes cut for lazy play and because he doesn't get along with Hitchcock. Given that Babcock and Hitchcock are similar coaches and friends I don't think Stewart would be much better off here.

I dunno if that's totally fair. Hitchcock has a reputation for pushing his troops so hard that they inevitably burn out and declare mutiny. He's clashed with players, coaches, general managers, probably even little kids and puppies - so I'd be willing to give Stewart the benefit of the doubt. Stewart's a big, mean, right-handed power forward heading into his prime years. I'm not a huge fan of his, but if he could be had for a reasonable price (and it's worth noting that the only reason he might be available at a decent price is that he doesn't get along with Hitchcock. Point being, we're not going to acquire a premier power forward whose coach adores him. If we're gonna get one of these guys, it's gonna have to be one who's in a less-than-ideal situation. So we'll have to take some possible bad with the good), I think you have to consider it. Sure, he's no Brendan Shanahan, but do we need our big mean crease-crasher to be ultra skilled? If he could score 30 goals for us off his nose, great! We have enough highlight-reel skills. We could use some more Holmstrom in our attack, more garbage goals. A little less pretty, a little more gritty.

[kipwinger 8,772]

Stewart had his minutes cut for lazy play and because he doesn't get along with Hitchcock. Given that Babcock and Hitchcock are similar coaches and friends I don't think Stewart would be much better off here.

I have not seen or heard one single source suggest that Stewart has played "lazy". If you have I'd love for you to share the info, because until you do it's just speculation.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I have not seen or heard one single source suggest that Stewart has played "lazy". If you have I'd love for you to share the info, because until you do it's just speculation.

I saw a couple articles awhile back and I've talked to Blues fans. It's not a big secret.

[kipwinger 8,772]

I saw a couple articles awhile back and I've talked to Blues fans. It's not a big secret.

If you can produce even one article I'll concede. As for the opinions of fans, being a member of LGW has taught me nothing if it hasn't taught me that most "fans" are irrationally gossipy and prone to serious lapses in judgement and analytical reasoning. Hell, there are currently a bunch of "fans" in another forum pontificating (poorly) on the principles of democracy, constitutionality, and representative governance. Nothing about "the fans say so" is convincing to me.

Edited February 11, 2014 by kipwinger

[Richdg 267]

Bumpy, I do agree that we need to improve the whole team: F, D, and G. I disagree with the thought that the F have been hit harder. In fact IIRC everyone of our Dman have missed time this year due to injuries. maybe Lashoff hasn't, but everyone else has. But that really doesn't matter. Injuries happen to all teams and all players. The good teams fight through it.

The issue still is how do we improve. The only 2 options are trades and free agents. There are no top notch Dmen available, so we would have to trade. of course that cost a lot of prospects and our depth.

[Dabura 12,232]

The issue still is how do we improve. The only 2 options are trades and free agents. There are no top notch Dmen available, so we would have to trade. of course that cost a lot of prospects and our depth.

You mean UFA-wise? Boyle, Timonen, Girardi, Orpik, and Niskanen haven't re-signed yet, so there's still a sliver of hope on that front. (Though I guess the fact that I included Orpik and Niskanen in that list speaks to how shallow the pool really is.) Of course, it doesn't necessarily have to be a Big Name Guy who rounds out and solidifies our top four. Sami Salo looked pretty dang effective against us the other night.

On the trade front... You know who I think's a bit underrated?

He was quietly excellent against us in the second round. Might make for a good depth add.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Dabura

[Buppy 1,720]

Bumpy, I do agree that we need to improve the whole team: F, D, and G. I disagree with the thought that the F have been hit harder. In fact IIRC everyone of our Dman have missed time this year due to injuries. maybe Lashoff hasn't, but everyone else has. But that really doesn't matter. Injuries happen to all teams and all players. The good teams fight through it.

The issue still is how do we improve. The only 2 options are trades and free agents. There are no top notch Dmen available, so we would have to trade. of course that cost a lot of prospects and our depth.

It's not really close on injuries.

On defense, we have had 6 games played by call-ups. At forward, 117 (or 124, depending on who we want to consider a call-up). While almost everyone on defense has missed games, most of those injuries were one at a time. At forward, we had several guys out at once, most of them being our better scorers.

Smith, Kindl, and Lashoff are mostly interchangeable, and one of them would be sitting every night if we were totally healthy. I don't count their injuries. Kronwall, Dekeyser, and Ericsson have combined to miss 38 games. Only 2 of those from Kronwall.

At forward, our top 4 scorers, in PPG (and 2-5 in GPG); Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Alfie, and Franzen; have missed 73 games, many of them overlapping. Nyquist and Tatar, 5th and 7th in PPG (1st and 6th in GPG) have missed 34 games, albeit not all from injury. I won't even count Weiss, on the basis that he sucked when he was playing anyway, nor Helm, on the basis that even though he got kinda hot for a bit he's not really an important scorer, nor Abby for mostly the same reason.

It's one thing to say "good teams fight through it", quite another to face the reality of having 2-5 key scorers all out at the same time. Fighting through it, on the rare occasions teams find a way to do so, is rarely a matter of depth or even having enough star power so the next guy in line is just as good as anyone who gets injured. It's a matter of good team play and guys stepping up to contribute more than you would expect.

Say we do sign Vanek, and then he gets hurt, and it happens to be at the same time Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen are out (as they inevitably will be, according to you), would we not be a "good team" if we can't still score 3 goals a game then? Would our forwards still suck because there wasn't another 30 yo "star" to throw $9M at? Would we need to then throw $9 or $10M at Kane or Ryan the next year, because "good teams" apparently are supposed to have so many stars that it's impossible for injuries to have any effect?

As for the defense, we don't need a top-notch player to improve on a bottom 4 of Smith, Kindl, Lashoff, and Almquist. Should we not look at the defense at all, because, you know...Vanek? I don't really get your opposition to discussing the defense.