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Andy Pred 48

Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

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It was a pretty large consensus that our biggest weakness this year was our group of defencemen.

Fan Solution: Trade two rosters defencemen (Kindl/Lashoff) Let Quincey walk, promote youth and rookies.

I really don't see that improving our chances.....

I wouldn't say that is every one's solution. Holland seems to really be pushing the idea of the RH d-man. At this juncture, I think running something along the lines of this would be an improvement:

Kronwall-Smith

DeKeyser-Niskanen/Boyle/Gilbert

Ericsson-Sproul/Marchenko

Kindl

Letting Quincey walk is an improvement in itself, and waiving Lashoff is just a casualty of adding a veteran RH and one of Sproul/Marchenko. At the very least, this defense corps is going to generate more offense (in theory, anyway).

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I think at some point people will have to accept the new caphits thanks to the new CBA. The days of guys like Niskanen taking discounts to come here are gone, 5,5 annually is a bit of an overpayment for a top 4 guy yeah but at the end of the day you have to overpay to get the players you want. Niskanen would be a tremendous help and could give our blueline a much needed different look next season. I know people are thrilled with all the talent on the backend but at the end of the day we all know not all of them are gonna make it, so why not use only cash for Niskanen and use some of the higher upside prospects to get a big bodied forward ?

$5.5M wouldn't be too horrible, and probably moveable unless he completely tanked.

My concern is that he's shaping up to be one of those "Big prize" players that every team is going after, and looking at some past players in a similar situation: Campbell, Bouwmeester, Suter...$5.5M may be pretty optimistic.

I don't want to get saddled with 6/7 yr, $6.5-7M deal and risk him being unmovable if he regresses or doesn't fit in well. And our cap space isn't unlimited, even at $5.5 it likely limits what we can do at forward.

I think Zidlicky would be a much better option, if he's available. Very similar numbers (even though Zidlicky plays for a much worse team) in almost every way. Even their advanced metrics are similar. But Zid should be much cheaper and much shorter a commitment.

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I haven't read most of this thread; so I apologize if my post is off subject of the current conversation. But I feel as if a there is a perfect trade opportunity to fill the current needs of the team.

Buffalo is in full rebuild mode as of right now. There have been rumors over the past two seasons about them being willing to trade Tyler Myers. They also acquired Chris Stewart in the Miller/Ott trade. I'm not positive about it, but from what I've gathered, they acquired him in the trade to be another trading chip.

Tyler Myers is a young, giant, right-handed defenseman, whom is oozing with potential. He's obviously struggled since his rookie champaign; but he has shown that he can be a dominating shutdown defenseman if put in the right situation.

I know a lot of people have issues with Stewart... but he can be the perfect power forward for our team. He's big, right-handed, young, scores, fights, intimidates, etc... He's been quite inconsistent over his career, so far; but he's young enough to where that can be fixed with the right coach. And we do have the right coach for that.

Unfortunately it would probably take an astronomical return to get both of them from Buffalo. It would probably take AT LEAST our 1st round pick, one of Tatar/Jurco, one of Sproul/Ouellet, hopefully Franzen and/or Kindl, and either another good prospect or a good established veteran.

That is a lot to give up for two players, but I think it would be well worth it. It would fill our two biggest needs now, and in the future. Luckily we finally have a great and deep prospect pipeline, to where we can realistically pull of a blockbuster like this without destroying our farm/future.

This is my hypothetical version of what I'd love to see:

2014 1st Round Pick

2015 3rd Round Pick

Thomas Tatar

Xavier Ouellet

Johan Franzen

Jakub Kindl

Joakim Andersson

for

Tyler Myers

Chris Stewart

2014 2nd Round Pick (I'd do the trade even if they aren't willing to give us this pick)

Thoughts? Too much to give? Not enough to receive? Horrible idea? Great idea that perfectly fills ours needs? ...... personally, I think it's the perfect two pieces that could be obtainable. The other perfect team to make a similar trade with if this wouldn't work is with Winnipeg... Bogosian and Kane. But I feel as if that would cost us more than the trade I proposed. Also, I apologize for making such a huge post!

TL;DR

Make a blockbuster with Buffalo that would give us Chris Stewart and Tyler Myers. Two young right-handed players whom are oozing with potential. In my opinion, it perfectly fills our two biggest needs.

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It was a pretty large consensus that our biggest weakness this year was our group of defencemen.

Fan Solution: Trade two rosters defencemen (Kindl/Lashoff) Let Quincey walk, promote youth and rookies.

I really don't see that improving our chances.....

It's improvement if those 2 rookie defensemen are better than lashoff and kindl? Yes they are rookies but doesn't matter if they are better than what you have

I expect ouellet to crack the lineup

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Is it so hard to believe ouellet or sproul will end up being better than niskanen ? I personally think ouellet makes the team next year , coaches love him and I think he can be a vlasic type dman which if were lucky would be a huge addition

Sproul has high upside and I'd got think after one more year in Grand Rapids he could be ready ... Again this is just my opinion but I think marchenko will surprise a lot of people , yes he's a rookie but he's played with men in the khl for yes prior and was an ahl all star first year

So again for me I'm not willing to throw a longterm deal with a significant cap hit to niskanen just because we need a dman and he's the best available in a weak ufa class especially with a lot of promising guys coming up in the back end unless it's for a real stud defensemen which niskanen in my eyes isn't

Sometimes the best move you can make is to not make any

The kids don't make the team better now though. The goal is to win this season. Ouellet seems like he can develop into a solid dman. it won;t happen over night. it might take 2, 3 or 4 years. the chances of him being an impact player at the NHL level this coming season is very slim. a smart GM doesn't put all his eggs into that basket.

The problem I have with Niskanen is that he hasn't been nearly this good for the last few years. I've seen too many guys have a career year, sign a big contract, then drop back off.

He is also at that age where defensemen come into their prime. He has been better this year than in past years yes. But he has shown improvement every year. pretty typical of the development of a blueliner in the NHL that are not those rare Drew Doughty high draft pick types. The players who suually regress after their big contract are more often than not those who have an anomaly of a big season. this season was not an anomaly for him. it was something that you could see coming for the past couple years with experience and growth as a player.

A player like Niskanen is not something this team wants. It is something this team needs. He his just entering his prime, can produce in the playoffs, is right handed (can't stress how important this is), responsible in his own zone, and has shown he can stay healthy. I agree with giving kids the shot if it is either playing a rookie or a washed up vet. But Niskanen is the perfect fit for this team. There will still be 2 roster spots for kids with Niskanen signed (assuming Kindl and LAshoff argon -hahah chemistry joke)

$5.5M wouldn't be too horrible, and probably moveable unless he completely tanked.

My concern is that he's shaping up to be one of those "Big prize" players that every team is going after, and looking at some past players in a similar situation: Campbell, Bouwmeester, Suter...$5.5M may be pretty optimistic.

I don't want to get saddled with 6/7 yr, $6.5-7M deal and risk him being unmovable if he regresses or doesn't fit in well. And our cap space isn't unlimited, even at $5.5 it likely limits what we can do at forward.

I think Zidlicky would be a much better option, if he's available. Very similar numbers (even though Zidlicky plays for a much worse team) in almost every way. Even their advanced metrics are similar. But Zid should be much cheaper and much shorter a commitment.

Niskanen is not going to get 7 million a year unless he wins the Conn Smythe lol

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I haven't read most of this thread; so I apologize if my post is off subject of the current conversation. But I feel as if a there is a perfect trade opportunity to fill the current needs of the team.

Buffalo is in full rebuild mode as of right now. There have been rumors over the past two seasons about them being willing to trade Tyler Myers. They also acquired Chris Stewart in the Miller/Ott trade. I'm not positive about it, but from what I've gathered, they acquired him in the trade to be another trading chip.

Tyler Myers is a young, giant, right-handed defenseman, whom is oozing with potential. He's obviously struggled since his rookie champaign; but he has shown that he can be a dominating shutdown defenseman if put in the right situation.

I know a lot of people have issues with Stewart... but he can be the perfect power forward for our team. He's big, right-handed, young, scores, fights, intimidates, etc... He's been quite inconsistent over his career, so far; but he's young enough to where that can be fixed with the right coach. And we do have the right coach for that.

Unfortunately it would probably take an astronomical return to get both of them from Buffalo. It would probably take AT LEAST our 1st round pick, one of Tatar/Jurco, one of Sproul/Ouellet, hopefully Franzen and/or Kindl, and either another good prospect or a good established veteran.

That is a lot to give up for two players, but I think it would be well worth it. It would fill our two biggest needs now, and in the future. Luckily we finally have a great and deep prospect pipeline, to where we can realistically pull of a blockbuster like this without destroying our farm/future.

This is my hypothetical version of what I'd love to see:

2014 1st Round Pick

2015 3rd Round Pick

Thomas Tatar

Xavier Ouellet

Johan Franzen

Jakub Kindl

Joakim Andersson

for

Tyler Myers

Chris Stewart

2014 2nd Round Pick (I'd do the trade even if they aren't willing to give us this pick)

Thoughts? Too much to give? Not enough to receive? Horrible idea? Great idea that perfectly fills ours needs? ...... personally, I think it's the perfect two pieces that could be obtainable. The other perfect team to make a similar trade with if this wouldn't work is with Winnipeg... Bogosian and Kane. But I feel as if that would cost us more than the trade I proposed. Also, I apologize for making such a huge post!

TL;DR

Make a blockbuster with Buffalo that would give us Chris Stewart and Tyler Myers. Two young right-handed players whom are oozing with potential. In my opinion, it perfectly fills our two biggest needs.

I like myers but man that's a hell of a lot to give up so I'd pass Edited by nyqvististhefuture
marcaractac likes this

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It's improvement if those 2 rookie defensemen are better than lashoff and kindl? Yes they are rookies but doesn't matter if they are better than what you have

I expect ouellet to crack the lineup

expecting 2 rookies to make up the 3rd pairing for the entire season is a HUGE mistake. defense take a lot longer to adjust at the NHL level than forwards. We just went through this with Ericsson and Smith. Those cases were just 1 at a time. and now you want an entire pairing of rookies? They are not gonna become solid NHL'ers over night. There will be growing pains.

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The kids don't make the team better now though. The goal is to win this season. Ouellet seems like he can develop into a solid dman. it won;t happen over night. it might take 2, 3 or 4 years. the chances of him being an impact player at the NHL level this coming season is very slim. a smart GM doesn't put all his eggs into that basket.

The goal is to win every season ... We're wings fans and we want them to win the cup every year especially with zetterberg and pavel aging but we have to be smart and realistic and not try to mess with the future as well

Will niskanen make us a cup contender? I'd say no .... Will ouellet/marchenko as rookies make us better than kindl/lashoff ? My personal opinion is yes

I'd take ouellet over kindl ... He's a rookie but he always does the right play and I'd take marchenko over lashoff , that's how I see it ... Just my of opinion

Now of course if shea weber type d was available I'd be all up for giving 7 yrs In a deal but he's not and i don't know what's available in 2015 or 2016 but I'd just bite my time and hope our prospects keep improving as well

Unless we can workout a trade of course

It's just our luck ryan sutter turned us down cause we'd be really good now at d ... It is what it is though

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I like myers but man that's a hell of a lot to give up so I'd pass

It most certainly is. But I feel as if we're finally in a position to where we could pull off a blockbuster like that without regretting it. We'd get two young players who are more ready to make an impact now, while Z and Pavel are still dominant, and they're still young enough to be key players in future too. It's admittedly a farfetched idea... but I can't help but fantasize about how great our lineup would look with those two in it.

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expecting 2 rookies to make up the 3rd pairing for the entire season is a HUGE mistake. defense take a lot longer to adjust at the NHL level than forwards. We just went through this with Ericsson and Smith. Those cases were just 1 at a time. and now you want an entire pairing of rookies? They are not gonna become solid NHL'ers over night. There will be growing pains.

I expect ouellet to start the season ... As for marchenko he might start in Grand Rapids but I don't think he'll stay too long there ... There will be some growing pains but it is what it is , we're rebuilding on the fly

The kids had a great season but didn't do anything in the playoffs but it's a learning experience , I do expect us to have a rookie d this season though ... I'm personally hoping almquist somehow bulks up cause I think he can really help our power play but doesn't seem like he will and doesn't seem we're gonna give him a shot

It most certainly is. But I feel as if we're finally in a position to where we could pull off a blockbuster like that without regretting it. We'd get two young players who are more ready to make an impact now, while Z and Pavel are still dominant, and they're still young enough to be key players in future too. It's admittedly a farfetched idea... but I can't help but fantasize about how great our lineup would look with those two in it.

I think ouellet has a lot of attributes that are gonna make him a real important player for detroit And make him stay here a very long time so I'm not willing to give him up Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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I expect ouellet to start the season ... As for marchenko he might start in Grand Rapids but I don't think he'll stay too long there ... There will be some growing pains but it is what it is , we're rebuilding on the fly

There will be 2 rookie dmen in the lineup this season I'd imagine. But they need to be the 6th and 7th, not the 5th and 6th. I agree Ouellet should be starting the season with the team. He and someone take turns at the 6th spot, all while playing with someone like Smith, who has some experience. As long as there is a responsible dman on the bottom pairing with a rookie, all will be fine.

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Man niskanen just made a brutal mistake and went to the corner and left Richards alone

2-0 ny lol love it ... f*** the pens

We get it, you don't want to see the Wings sign Niskanen lol. Heaven forbid the guy be a human and make a mistake. Something even elite dmen to from time to time. Now imagine that mistake, but every night because of a rookie d pairing.

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There will be 2 rookie dmen in the lineup this season I'd imagine. But they need to be the 6th and 7th, not the 5th and 6th. I agree Ouellet should be starting the season with the team. He and someone take turns at the 6th spot, all while playing with someone like Smith, who has some experience. As long as there is a responsible dman on the bottom pairing with a rookie, all will be fine.

Ya I don't see the 2 rookies together I see ouellet with dekeyser which can be a real good pairing

When it all comes down to it I think we can agree we just want what's best for the wings and want them to contend for the cup and win it

I gotta say I'm highly optimistic about the wings future looking at our prospect pool

We get it, you don't want to see the Wings sign Niskanen lol. Heaven forbid the guy be a human and make a mistake. Something even elite dmen to from time to time. Now imagine that mistake, but every night because of a rookie d pairing.

But imagine that mistake locked up for 7 yrs 6 mill per and then we can't get rid of that mistake lol :P ... Sorry couldn't help it lol Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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Ya I don't see the 2 rookies together I see ouellet with dekeyser which can be a real good pairing

When it all comes down to it I think we can agree we just want what's best for the wings and want them to contend for the cup and win it

I gotta say I'm highly optimistic about the wings future looking at our prospect pool

The future is great. But it is even better when you can add assets for cash. especially much needed assets. But if you wanna wait another 3 or 4 years to have a shot at winning, then sure, make no moves. stick with the kids and pray enough of them turn out to make the team contend.

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I just think it's a much better scenario to choose to go with the rookies rather than have to because of lack of depth.

Especially with how this team is with staying healthy.

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Guys I still think dan Boyle is the best option for us at this time. The biggest problem with our D is that they are too young. Adding a veteran guy like him is perfect. He can come in and play around 23-25 minutes a game and make our pp loads better. The best part is that it gives us a key guy for around 3 maybe 4 seasons which IMO is our window to put a team together to win a cup with pav and hank before they too retire. After Boyle retires it opens up a spot for a younger guy that will be ready by that time.

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Guys I still think dan Boyle is the best option for us at this time. The biggest problem with our D is that they are too young. Adding a veteran guy like him is perfect. He can come in and play around 23-25 minutes a game and make our pp loads better. The best part is that it gives us a key guy for around 3 maybe 4 seasons which IMO is our window to put a team together to win a cup with pav and hank before they too retire. After Boyle retires it opens up a spot for a younger guy that will be ready by that time.

He'll be 38 when the season starts. 3 to 4 years of Boyle is not the answer. 1 year if someone else gets Niskanen? Maybe. But in the end, he is not close to the player he used to be. Where was he in the playoffs? Forgot he was even playing until they mentioned it was probably his last game as a Shark after a 3-0 choke.

He was also a minus player on a team with a +49 goal differential. 3 years ago I'd say go for it. Now? Not so much.

Edited by marcaractac

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The future is great. But it is even better when you can add assets for cash. especially much needed assets. But if you wanna wait another 3 or 4 years to have a shot at winning, then sure, make no moves. stick with the kids and pray enough of them turn out to make the team contend.

Tha problem is there's a salary cap now so you gotta think longterm if there was none I wouldn't care sign who you want whenever you want , unfortunetly that's not the case

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He'll be 38 when the season starts. 3 to 4 years of Boyle is not the answer. 1 year if someone else gets Niskanen? Maybe. But in the end, he is not close to the player he used to be. Where was he in the playoffs? Forgot he was even playing until they mentioned it was probably his last game as a Shark after a 3-0 choke.

He was also a minus player on a team with a +49 goal differential. 3 years ago I'd say go for it. Now? Not so much.

If there's nothin else and it'll cost us one or 2 yes to get him I'd make him the number 3-4 on detroit ... As for San Jose I'd say it was a total team choke job not just boyle

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Just rambling out loud.

We had so much optimism about our roster during Nyquist's streak. Remember that? I'd never seen us so jacked up about the future. What happened? (I mean, beyond Nyquist becoming human again.) I hate to say it, but I think the loss of Legwand - which I guess is kind of inevitable - could be a serious issue, if winning the Cup is the actual goal. That's a roundabout way of saying I'm really concerned about Weiss. You don't want to mess around with your 2C spot. Slotting Z there is always an option, and I suppose Helm or Sheahan could work. But I'd really like a proven top-six center not named Zetterberg who hasn't been injured for the past two seasons. I'm not saying move Weiss, I just think some high-priced insurance might help me sleep better at night. We could also stand to get bigger down the middle, Sheahan being our only centerman over 5'11 (and Legwand being a bit bigger than Sheahan). We do need to get bigger on the wing, but you'd like to have some size at center as well.

/spoiled Wings fan

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Just rambling out loud.

We had so much optimism about our roster during Nyquist's streak. Remember that? I'd never seen us so jacked up about the future. What happened? (I mean, beyond Nyquist becoming human again.) I hate to say it, but I think the loss of Legwand - which I guess is kind of inevitable - could be a serious issue, if winning the Cup is the actual goal. That's a roundabout way of saying I'm really concerned about Weiss. You don't want to mess around with your 2C spot. Slotting Z there is always an option, and I suppose Helm or Sheahan could work. But I'd really like a proven top-six center not named Zetterberg who hasn't been injured for the past two seasons. I'm not saying move Weiss, I just think some high-priced insurance might help me sleep better at night. We could also stand to get bigger down the middle, Sheahan being our only centerman over 5'11 (and Legwand being a bit bigger than Sheahan). We do need to get bigger on the wing, but you'd like to have some size at center as well.

/spoiled Wings fan

If like a top 6 winger more personally. But I'm in the boat of letting Z center the second line. Top to bottom were a better team when he does IMO of course.

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...

This is my hypothetical version of what I'd love to see:

2014 1st Round Pick

2015 3rd Round Pick

Thomas Tatar

Xavier Ouellet

Johan Franzen

Jakub Kindl

Joakim Andersson

for

Tyler Myers

Chris Stewart

2014 2nd Round Pick (I'd do the trade even if they aren't willing to give us this pick)

Thoughts? Too much to give? Not enough to receive? Horrible idea? Great idea that perfectly fills ours needs? ...... personally, I think it's the perfect two pieces that could be obtainable. The other perfect team to make a similar trade with if this wouldn't work is with Winnipeg... Bogosian and Kane. But I feel as if that would cost us more than the trade I proposed. Also, I apologize for making such a huge post!

TL;DR

Make a blockbuster with Buffalo that would give us Chris Stewart and Tyler Myers. Two young right-handed players whom are oozing with potential. In my opinion, it perfectly fills our two biggest needs.

It possibly fills a need, IF Myers can improve and start showing some of what won him the Calder, and IF Stewart can gain some consistency, start producing 25g+ each year. But it also creates an even larger hole at forward by giving up Franzen and Tatar. Then you add a prospect who may end up better than Myers and a pick that may end up better than Stewart.

Drop the 1st, Tatar or Franzen, and Ouellet and I'd do it (though I'd be shocked if Buffalo would). As suggested it's an insane price to pay for a gamble. Sure, it has potential, depending on who fills the extra hole at forward. But I'd say it most likely just makes us worse.

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Tha problem is there's a salary cap now so you gotta think longterm if there was none I wouldn't care sign who you want whenever you want , unfortunetly that's not the case

We're gonna have crazy space this summer. Plus, while I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate to say it, Datsyuk's gone soon.

The concern, moving forward, is going to be how well our kids do. At the very "worst," they're all big-time players by the time their respective second contract seasons come around and they need to Get Paid like Niskanen does now. But that'd be a pretty nice problem to have (hence "'worst'").

Personally, my concern re: the long-term commitment we'd be giving Niskanen is more about the resulting look of our blue line than the money itself. I've really beaten this horse to death and I'm sorry for it, but we'd be more or less bound to that top five. That's a big deal. Kronwall's not going anywhere. DeKeyser's not going anywhere. Ericsson's homegrown, a new father, loyal, our biggest body, currently our best shutdown guy by far - not going anywhere. Smith is probably the least safe and secure, but he'll have to really disappoint and/or a very good option will have to present itself for him to get moved. Or maybe he becomes an all-star and prices himself off the team.

But, at the end of the day, we do need to sign Niskanen. It needs to be done. I just hope the Pens get bounced ASAP. The deeper they go, the less inclined they'll be to let him go, methinks.

Edited by Dabura

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I like Benoit Pouliot.

I know no one likes Christ Stewart, but if he could be had for (relatively) cheap, I think you have to seriously consider it. If it doesn't work out, he's a free agent next summer.

Making a list, checking it twice...

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