• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
plopster

GM moves

Rate this topic

62 posts in this topic

Talk about too much pressure for young kids, expecting them to become as good as our two superstars is so unrealistic it's not even worth discussing it. Zetterberg has that god given ability to play an excellent two way game and shadow the best of the best (Crosby), Pasha is well....magic on ice they are in a category of their own.

If guys like Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco and some other can become regular contributors I'd be more than happy but at the end of the day you are not going to build a winner through the draft only, there needs to be a mixture between UFA and draft. That being said, if Holland packages one of the young kids it better be for a top 4 pairing defenseman. If the rumors are true and Seabrook might become available the Wings need to move heaven and earth to get this guy. Given the outlook at the current UFA class

If the Wings can't get Niskanen I'd rather stand pat and maybe become a worse team in an excecptional draft year (Eichel, McDavid...)

Edited by frankgrimes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Talk about too much pressure for young kids, expecting them to become as good as our two superstars is so unrealistic it's not even worth discussing it. Zetterberg has that god given ability to play an excellent two way game and shadow the best of the best (Crosby), Pasha is well....magic on ice they are in a category of their own.

If guys like Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco and some other can become regular contributors I'd be more than happy but at the end of the day you are not going to build a winner through the draft only, there needs to be a mixture between UFA and draft. That being said, if Holland packages one of the young kids it better be for a top 4 pairing defenseman. If the rumors are true and Seabrook might become available the Wings need to move heaven and earth to get this guy. Given the outlook at the current UFA class

If the Wings can't get Niskanen I'd rather stand pat and maybe become a worse team in an excecptional draft year (Eichel, McDavid...)

You really think that the hated Hawks would trade Seabrook to the Wings? I think the sun is more likely to fall out of the sky……(but they should enquire nonetheless)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You really think that the hated Hawks would trade Seabrook to the Wings? I think the sun is more likely to fall out of the sky……(but they should enquire nonetheless)

Do I think so, no? But they might not have a choice Toews and Kane will each get 10 mill caphits and that's 20 mill locked up on only two guys (more than Pittsburgh is paying for Malkin and Crosby)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do I think so, no? But they might not have a choice Toews and Kane will each get 10 mill caphits and that's 20 mill locked up on only two guys (more than Pittsburgh is paying for Malkin and Crosby)

10 million? I think you mean 6 - 8 million depending on the length

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10 million? I think you mean 6 - 8 million depending on the length

Blackhawks have no leverage whatsoever here, captain serious will get his 10 mill either with the Hawks or somewhere else, he knows it his agent does as well and I'm sure Bowman is the same. There are contracts are going to be 8 years ~ 90 million Kane might get a little less but not by much.

jimmyemeryhunter likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blackhawks have no leverage whatsoever here, captain serious will get his 10 mill either with the Hawks or somewhere else, he knows it his agent does as well and I'm sure Bowman is the same. There are contracts are going to be 8 years ~ 90 million Kane might get a little less but not by much.

If I was either of them I'd want to be in Chicago for the rest of my career. Management has done a damn good job of putting a competitive team together every year, with themselves as the center pieces. If Toews or Kane demand above 8 a year they are dumb... and as much as I despise them I don't think either are that stupid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I was either of them I'd want to be in Chicago for the rest of my career. Management has done a damn good job of putting a competitive team together every year, with themselves as the center pieces. If Toews or Kane demand above 8 a year they are dumb... and as much as I despise them I don't think either are that stupid.

Why are they dumb ? It's not their fault that you can't have longterm contracts anymore so for sure their average caphit will go up.

Both have already won two cups, Toews has a gold medal, junior gold and whatnot the guy at such a young age has nothing left to proof. I'm sure he isn't stupid thats why I don't think he will ask for maximum caphits neither will Kane but Toews >>>>> Malkin, Ovechkin and both are making more than 9 mill per so do the math. Some Blackhawks fans think both are going to sign for UNDER 8 million, if Bowman goes in with an offer like that it would almost be insulting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why are they dumb ? It's not their fault that you can't have longterm contracts anymore so for sure their average caphit will go up.

Both have already won two cups, Toews has a gold medal, junior gold and whatnot the guy at such a young age has nothing left to proof. I'm sure he isn't stupid thats why I don't think he will ask for maximum caphits neither will Kane but Toews >>>>> Malkin, Ovechkin and both are making more than 9 mill per so do the math. Some Blackhawks fans think both are going to sign for UNDER 8 million, if Bowman goes in with an offer like that it would almost be insulting.

Ok remembering that our superstars are at under 8 mill and under 7 mill, unlike most teams, I'll reevaluate my arguemt. Toews or Kane probably could get up to 9 million per year. Personally I think that sucks to do to your team, but if they want it they'll get it. However, I still think 10 million is an overpayment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok remembering that our superstars are at under 8 mill and under 7 mill, unlike most teams, I'll reevaluate my arguemt. Toews or Kane probably could get up to 9 million per year. Personally I think that sucks to do to your team, but if they want it they'll get it. However, I still think 10 million is an overpayment.

Exactly. 10 million is a definite overpayment. And really, with the amount of money they've already earned in their careers, what exactly is $1-2 million extra going to cost them? A bruised ego? Give me a break.

If they were smart they would negotiate together and get $8m each so that the Hawks could keep having success by giving management the flexibility to add more pieces when necessary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fg is right/wrong a bit here. Yes Toews will get huge money. But and this is key. If he becomes a UFA other teams can only sign him to a 7 year deal if that happens he gets 10 mill/cap hit. By resigning with the B hawks they can resign him to an 8 year deal. That will allow them to get a lower cap hit. 70 mill divided by 8 years. kane is not in the same class as Toews. In 7 full seasons he has hit 30 goals once. A typical year is 23-27 goals. Good player yes, but not a superstar. 6.5-7 mill is more like it for him.

krsmith17 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fg is right/wrong a bit here. Yes Toews will get huge money. But and this is key. If he becomes a UFA other teams can only sign him to a 7 year deal if that happens he gets 10 mill/cap hit. By resigning with the B hawks they can resign him to an 8 year deal. That will allow them to get a lower cap hit. 70 mill divided by 8 years. kane is not in the same class as Toews. In 7 full seasons he has hit 30 goals once. A typical year is 23-27 goals. Good player yes, but not a superstar. 6.5-7 mill is more like it for him.

It is really simple, he holds all the cards here. If Wirtz wants a smaller caphit well he had that chance during the last lockout but now long-term contracts are done, so he has to deal with a higher one

Imagine you are Toews agent, this negotiation has to be an agents dream. I honestly believe they are going in asking for Max, Hawks will offer 8,5 and both parties will meet somewhere in between with a full NMC and around 9 - 10 mill per.

Believe it or not, players are usually supporting a lot of loved ones and friends with money, so 1 - 2 mill over 8/7 years are 14 or 16 mill nobody in his right mind is saying no that. Especially when you have won everything under the age of 30!

Would I offer Kane the same ? No because I'd use Kessel as a comparision and add another 0,5 per.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fg is right/wrong a bit here. Yes Toews will get huge money. But and this is key. If he becomes a UFA other teams can only sign him to a 7 year deal if that happens he gets 10 mill/cap hit. By resigning with the B hawks they can resign him to an 8 year deal. That will allow them to get a lower cap hit. 70 mill divided by 8 years. kane is not in the same class as Toews. In 7 full seasons he has hit 30 goals once. A typical year is 23-27 goals. Good player yes, but not a superstar. 6.5-7 mill is more like it for him.

I definitely think Toews is the better player, but the stats you showed don't say much. If you're comparing goals, Toews has only reached 30 goals twice. Also, Kane scored 29 in 69 games this year and 23 in 47 games last year - if you prorate that to a full season, that's basically him being a 30 goal scorer 3 out of 6 years. Anyway, point-wise they're pretty equal and they're both definitely stars

Toews is a great leader the more of a complete player. I actually think they'll make pretty much the same amount if only because Toews seems likely to take a bigger discount to help the team.

krsmith17 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I definitely think Toews is the better player, but the stats you showed don't say much. If you're comparing goals, Toews has only reached 30 goals twice. Also, Kane scored 29 in 69 games this year and 23 in 47 games last year - if you prorate that to a full season, that's basically him being a 30 goal scorer 3 out of 6 years. Anyway, point-wise they're pretty equal and they're both definitely stars

Toews is a great leader the more of a complete player. I actually think they'll make pretty much the same amount if only because Toews seems likely to take a bigger discount to help the team.

And for what's it's worth idk what their lines at emits I the time but it seems whenever I watch them they're running hossa toews and sharpe on one line then Kane with nobody on the second line.

But remember I only watch like 5 hawks games a year if that. I watch a lot of hockey just not theirs lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PVD, Toews is a 200ft play making C that scores. kane is a goal scoring winger. There are big differences in their game. Kane is not as good as Kessel and it isn't really close.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PVD, Toews is a 200ft play makingC that scores. kane is a goal scoring winger. There are big differences in their game. Kane is not as good as Kessel and it isn't really close.

I think Kane and Kessel are close. The difference is Kessel doesn't get the type of respect he deserves because the guy is shy and introverted and Toronto prefers mediajunkies such as Lupul...

Kane is a very good player but nowhere near the importance of Toews agreed but it doesn't much Kane has a lot of cards too if he doesn't like the Blackhawks offer he could easily sign for much more with a team like Buffalo heck Buffalo could even easily stomach maximum for him.

At the end of the day the only leverage the Hawks have with both is one thing: 8 years

Other than that Brisson has an almost too easy job for a man with his negotiations skills.

Please note I'm not trying to play agent or GM just mentioning how I think this will play out based on public information and the importance of these two superstars

Edited by frankgrimes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Kane and Kessel are close. The difference is Kessel doesn't get the type of respect he deserves because the guy is shy and introverted and Toronto prefers mediajunkies such as Lupul...Kane is a very good player but nowhere near the importance of Toews agreed but it doesn't much Kane has a lot of cards too if he doesn't like the Blackhawks offer he could easily sign for much more with a team like Buffalo heck Buffalo could even easily stomach maximum for him.At the end of the day the only leverage the Hawks have with both is one thing: 8 yearsOther than that Brisson has an almost too easy job for a man with his negotiations skills.Please note I'm not trying to play agent or GM just mentioning how I think this will play out based on public information and the importance of these two superstars

We could afford to give Kane his 8 or 9m :).

I agree they're both good. I think Kane is better IMO he just isn't as mature as kessel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sadly, we don't have a Jack Johnson laying around that we could trade.

Also, we're on the rebuild and can't trade 1st rounders

It's always something isn't it? I guess we just have darn rotten luck while teams like Chicago, LA and Boston have great luck in the post season the past few years. There is, of course, no strategy to any of it. It's all pure chance. Holland is perfect and it is fate and the universe that are keeping us down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's always something isn't it? I guess we just have darn rotten luck while teams like Chicago, LA and Boston have great luck in the post season the past few years. There is, of course, no strategy to any of it. It's all pure chance. Holland is perfect and it is fate and the universe that are keeping us down.

Na I think it's not having the extra pieces and rebuilding that PVD mentioned. Nice straw man though!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not trying to say anything, but look at the ratio of North American players to Europeans on the teams that recently won the cup and look at the wings roster. There's a trend here.

http://kings.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

http://bruins.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/roster.htm?location=/roster

http://redwings.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

This is the wings 2008 roster.

http://m.hkref.com/m?p=XXteamsXXDETXX2008.html&t=all_roster

20 North Americans and 13 Europeans. It's been downhill since the gritty North Americans have been departing. Osgood, chelios, draper, maltby, McCarty, rafalski, drake, Downey, and Stuart. Again, Stuart was an acquisition that season in February. Holland making moves to improve an already fairly stacked team. Something he should be doing more of.

Edited by plopster
mackel likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not trying to say anything, but look at the ratio of North American players to Europeans on the teams that recently won the cup and look at the wings roster. There's a trend here.

http://kings.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

http://bruins.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/roster.htm?location=/roster

http://redwings.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

This is the wings 2008 roster.

http://m.hkref.com/m?p=XXteamsXXDETXX2008.html&t=all_roster

20 North Americans and 13 Europeans. It's been downhill since the gritty North Americans have been departing. Osgood, chelios, draper, maltby, McCarty, rafalski, drake, Downey, and Stuart. Again, Stuart was an acquisition that season in February. Holland making moves to improve an already fairly stacked team. Something he should be doing more of.

Have you been talking to Don Cherry recently? Having said that, I agree, to an extent. I think we haven't quite got the balance right. yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you been talking to Don Cherry recently? Having said that, I agree, to an extent. I think we haven't quite got the balance right. yet.

No, but look at the Kings. 4 Europeans on that roster, 4. Bruins had 7. The hawks had 10, and got handled pretty well by the kings, they just found a way to steal a couple before being eliminated. The kings whiffed on some chances to score goals in those last two games they lost, and Crawford, the canadian, stood on his head those games. I'm sorry but yeah, the Europeans have the skill and craftiness, but to go deep in the playoffs, you need size strength stamina and endurance to go with the skill. We all know the North Americans have the size and strength over the Europeans. Its just a Snapple Fact. Toss in the skill of a Kopitar and Gaborik and you have the formula to run deep and possibly win it all. The kings very well could be a three peat champ this year had they beaten the hawks last year.

Edited by plopster
frankgrimes and wings4thecup06 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not trying to say anything, but look at the ratio of North American players to Europeans on the teams that recently won the cup and look at the wings roster. There's a trend here.

http://kings.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

http://bruins.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/roster.htm?location=/roster

http://redwings.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

This is the wings 2008 roster.

http://m.hkref.com/m?p=XXteamsXXDETXX2008.html&t=all_roster

20 North Americans and 13 Europeans. It's been downhill since the gritty North Americans have been departing. Osgood, chelios, draper, maltby, McCarty, rafalski, drake, Downey, and Stuart. Again, Stuart was an acquisition that season in February. Holland making moves to improve an already fairly stacked team. Something he should be doing more of.

**LIKE**

The only change I'd make to your analysis is that we need more Canadians on the team. The primary make up of the team presently are soft skilled euros and 3rd/4th liners from in and around Michigan.

Detroit # 1 Fan likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, but look at the Kings. 4 Europeans on that roster, 4. Bruins had 7. The hawks had 10, and got handled pretty well by the kings, they just found a way to steal a couple before being eliminated. The kings whiffed on some chances to score goals in those last two games they lost, and Crawford, the canadian, stood on his head those games. I'm sorry but yeah, the Europeans have the skill and craftiness, but to go deep in the playoffs, you need size strength stamina and endurance to go with the skill. We all know the North Americans have the size and strength over the Europeans. Its just a Snapple Fact. Toss in the skill of a Kopitar and Gaborik and you have the formula to run deep and possibly win it all. The kings very well could be a three peat champ this year had they beaten the hawks last year.

And it's true, I agree, we need more physical, tough NA's on our team. And I think it's all about finding the correct balance, which is why I feel Callahan should be playing with us next season, and essential that we get a healthy season out of Helm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think anyone would argue that a good team should have a mix of grit and skill, North Americans or Euros. But beyond that kind of a platitude I don't think there's much to say. Anybody who thinks they know the exact ratio to land a Stanley Cup should feel free to post it. If not, then I'd imagine it depends on the coach, organizational philosophy, and existing roster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not saying there's an exact number, but you need to have grit and toughness to go along with the skill and finesse, you need more determination with a decent amount of talented players to go with the skill sniper players. The fact that the red wings don't have the threat of enforcer is what allowed the Bruins to do what they did to the wings. 10 years ago if that POS had done to a wings player like Dekeyser what he did we wouldn't be crying about a suspension. We would be anticipating an ass whooping the next game. The wings don't have that threat so people have their way with them.

Edited by plopster
F.Michael likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0