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#1 plopster

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 10:58 PM

These are the moves the kings GM has made before their last two finals appearances. Holland used to do similar things. What gives?
http://sports.yahoo....-041338890.html
[url="http://m.espn.go.com...c=desktop[/url]

Edited by plopster, 07 June 2014 - 11:47 PM.

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#2 DeGraa55

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 11:01 PM

Some GMs want cups some are content with just making the playoffs.

#3 PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 11:19 PM

Sadly, we don't have a Jack Johnson laying around that we could trade. 

 

Also, we're on the rebuild and can't trade 1st rounders



#4 Datsyukian-Deke

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 11:25 PM

These are the moves the kings GM has made before their last two finals appearances. Holland used to do similar things. What gives?
http://sports.yahoo....-041338890.html
http://m.espn.go.com...ork&src=desktop


The second article is when Gaborik was traded from NY to Columbus....not Columbus to LA.

#5 plopster

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 11:50 PM

The second article is when Gaborik was traded from NY to Columbus....not Columbus to LA.

Fixed

Sadly, we don't have a Jack Johnson laying around that we could trade. 
 
Also, we're on the rebuild and can't trade 1st rounders

No, but there is Ericsson, dekeyser, quincey. And I don't mind giving up second or third rounders. How many of those have worked out recently anyway? I remember seeing a thread with a post about how guys that we have passed up on in the draft have turned out a lot better than the guys the wings picked.
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#6 FlashyG

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 12:05 AM

Fixed
No, but there is Ericsson, dekeyser, quincey. And I don't mind giving up second or third rounders. How many of those have worked out recently anyway? I remember seeing a thread with a post about how guys that we have passed up on in the draft have turned out a lot better than the guys the wings picked.

Ericsson, Dekeyser and Quincey are not Jack Johnson type defencemen. Especially not the calibre he was when he was traded.

 

We also don't have the 8th overall pick to offer.

 

As far as how many 2nd and 3rd round picks have worked out...in the Wings case the answer would be many. Ouellet, Sproul, Jurco, Tatar, Bertuzzi, Nastasiuk, Janmark etc. 

 

Just because better people have been passed over doesn't mean we didn't get good players with our selections.

 

Hats off to the Kings for their success, but we don't need to emulate every team that wins the cup...The Wings system has been proven successful too.



#7 plopster

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 12:57 AM

Well it seems odd that when holland would pull the trigger at the deadline we would make deep runs to the playoffs and to the finals. Made it with Hossa, drake, hasek, hull, and shanny. Grant it, those previous years they could spend money forever, but acquiring serious skill at the deadline seems to be working. And none of those guys you mentioned have exactly been tearing it up in the nhl yet. Bertuzzi? Really? He hasn't even been called up yet.
I'm just really irritated with the way they have been running things the past few years. Paying old washed up guys, not making trades, not spending all their cap space. Over paying for guys or handing out too long of a contract. It's just ridiculous. Hollands plan for keeping things going sounds a lot like just keeping up appearances and strategizing to have one really good season every 5 or 6 years and they are getting their asses handed to them by the bruins, hawks, and hell, they could hardly beat the coyotes this past year. It just seems like a lot of mediocrity for a very proud franchise and fan base.

Edited by plopster, 08 June 2014 - 01:01 AM.

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#8 plopster

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:05 AM

I want to see more of this
http://m.youtube.com...h?v=QuwsVEE_7Yc

Less of this
http://m.youtube.com...h?v=KbZNKYMaexU
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#9 FlashyG

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:27 AM

Well it seems odd that when holland would pull the trigger at the deadline we would make deep runs to the playoffs and to the finals. Made it with Hossa, drake, hasek, hull, and shanny. Grant it, those previous years they could spend money forever, but acquiring serious skill at the deadline seems to be working. And none of those guys you mentioned have exactly been tearing it up in the nhl yet. Bertuzzi? Really? He hasn't even been called up yet.
I'm just really irritated with the way they have been running things the past few years. Paying old washed up guys, not making trades, not spending all their cap space. Over paying for guys or handing out too long of a contract. It's just ridiculous. Hollands plan for keeping things going sounds a lot like just keeping up appearances and strategizing to have one really good season every 5 or 6 years and they are getting their asses handed to them by the bruins, hawks, and hell, they could hardly beat the coyotes this past year. It just seems like a lot of mediocrity for a very proud franchise and fan base.

 

I'm starting to wonder if you even watch the same team as me.

 

Absolutely none of those guys were deadline pick-ups. Shanahan and Hasek were trades but they happened very early in the season. The rest were off-season Free Agent signings.

 

We spent to the cap this past season, and while we got handled pretty easily by Boston, we gave Chicago all they could handle last season and were a Danny Dekeyser Injury away from potentially adding another cup. It's also been 4 years since we played Phoenix in the playoffs and we swept them then, so I'm not sure what you're talking about there.

 

Back to our deadline moves, Holland pulled the trigger on one this past deadline and it's been the most commonly criticized move he's made in years (besides re-signing Cleary).


 

Who doesn't? 

 

Are Wings fans so spoiled that we get angry because we've gone a whole 6 years without a cup? Leaf fans have been waiting going on 50 years... have some perspective.



#10 number9

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 02:26 AM

Well it seems odd that when holland would pull the trigger at the deadline we would make deep runs to the playoffs and to the finals. Made it with Hossa, drake, hasek, hull, and shanny. Grant it, those previous years they could spend money forever, but acquiring serious skill at the deadline seems to be working. And none of those guys you mentioned have exactly been tearing it up in the nhl yet. Bertuzzi? Really? He hasn't even been called up yet.
I'm just really irritated with the way they have been running things the past few years. Paying old washed up guys, not making trades, not spending all their cap space. Over paying for guys or handing out too long of a contract. It's just ridiculous. Hollands plan for keeping things going sounds a lot like just keeping up appearances and strategizing to have one really good season every 5 or 6 years and they are getting their asses handed to them by the bruins, hawks, and hell, they could hardly beat the coyotes this past year. It just seems like a lot of mediocrity for a very proud franchise and fan base.


Wow. Someone finally figured it out. Hollands just trying to keep up appearances. He doesn't even want to build a good hockey team. He just wants to play GM and hang out with Zetterberg.

#11 evilmrt

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:14 AM

Wow. Someone finally figured it out. Hollands just trying to keep up appearances. He doesn't even want to build a good hockey team. He just wants to play GM and hang out with Zetterberg.


I'd rather hang out with Pasha

#12 dirtydangles

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:53 AM

This team needs to change the philosophy at the GM position. We need a new GM that has something to prove. Holland is content to keep his streak going and sit on his previous cup wins. Any new GM is set up for success right now with all the assets we have - its just Holland doesn't feel the need to make things happen.


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#13 _SP_

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 10:43 AM

Dude, really?  The Kings finished SIXTH in their conference and are now on their way to winning another Stanley Cup. Nobody picked them over the likes of Chicago and the Blues to make the finals.  Even then, they beat three teams in a row who ALL had home ice advantage.  That's a significant thing to accomplish in the NHL playoffs.

 

Similar thing in the East- the talk was who could compete with the physicality of the Bruins or the skill of the Penguins?  Montreal was the only other team to get significant love.  The Rangers were an afterthought.

 

So, yeah, swinging a trade for Legwand and making the playoffs could have been the catalyst for this team.  Could you imagine if Zetterberg had his legs under him and Ericsson was playing?  Totally different defense, too!  No more Kindl-Lashoff pairing...



#14 GMRwings1983

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 11:51 AM

Holland is like someone who inherits a big savings account, and then lets it dwindle down over the years without supplementing his income.  

 

Account will be almost empty when Datsyuk and Zetterberg retire.  


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#15 plopster

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 11:52 AM

Well I was talking about Phoenix during the season this year. And I meant trades in general for picks like the kings did. But holland feels good about his team. True they may have gone farther with less injuries. But signing all these old f***ers to contracts needs to stop. Bertuzzi should have been dropped years ago. Lids and holmer were the few that got a pass for that, but they were still pretty good at what they did. It was just so hard to watch the games this year. Their play was not very crisp. One and done in the offensive zone. The forechecking was pretty bad. The power play was worse. The defense was bad at the end of games, how was mediocre at best. It just kills me to watch the wings look so bad after watching them own the 90s and part of the early 2000s and seeing the s***ty moves holland makes.
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#16 kipwinger

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:05 PM

 Could you imagine if Zetterberg had his legs under him and Ericsson was playing? 

 

And the year before that it was "could you imagine if Helm and Dekeyser were playing".  There's always some excuse for losing.  But the reality is, we're not going to win anything soon if our GM doesn't get aggressive.  Maybe 5 years down the road when all our kids are in their primes, provided their primes are even all that great to begin with. 

 

What happens if we put all our eggs in the kid basket and it turns out Nyquist only ever gets as good as Filppula, Mantha's the next Primeau, and Smith is Mathieu Schneider 2.0?  We'd be f***ed.  And given how hard it is to become a star in the NHL, it's much more likely that these things happen than that any of our young guys become star NHL players.

 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#17 _SP_

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 02:01 PM

 

And the year before that it was "could you imagine if Helm and Dekeyser were playing".  There's always some excuse for losing.  But the reality is, we're not going to win anything soon if our GM doesn't get aggressive.  Maybe 5 years down the road when all our kids are in their primes, provided their primes are even all that great to begin with. 

 

What happens if we put all our eggs in the kid basket and it turns out Nyquist only ever gets as good as Filppula, Mantha's the next Primeau, and Smith is Mathieu Schneider 2.0?  We'd be f***ed.  And given how hard it is to become a star in the NHL, it's much more likely that these things happen than that any of our young guys become star NHL players.

 

Things happen?  Every year 29 teams play the "what if" game.  This isn't something new to Detroit, dude.  There are over ten million fans wondering the same thing.  What if Mantha becomes the next Corey Perry?  What if Nyquist is the next Zach Parise?  What if Smith becomes the next Dan Boyle?  We can play this game all day long.  The Rangers don't have a glorified star in the making anymore than the Red Wings do.  Look at Pittsburgh... two top-tier stars in Malkin and Crosby, then what? A bunch of guys that got wiped out of the playoffs in a hurry.  If you think this team is just going to roll over in two or three years, you're mistaken.  I really hate negative fans who always worry about the worst.  I'm not saying I'm not happy with how things ended this year, but this team has pieces in place to make it to the finals.  It starts and ends with the goaltender.  If Howard plays like a championship-caliber goalie, then he can eliminate some of the bounces that would automatically give the other team the upper hand.  In the playoffs, winning is where opportunity meets preparation.  You can line your team with a bunch of stars with some of the top defenders and some great two-way forwards, but you can still get bounced (see Chicago and Boston).  This team was put in position to succeed and they will be put in position next year, too.  You're not going to win the Cup thirty years in a row, so stop with the negativity.



#18 Wing Across The Pond

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 04:42 PM

A lot of the issue is a lot of what has been good with us in the last 2 decades. This organisation has built players - in this case such as Ericsson - and the man running the show isn't going to want to give away the pieces he's created for someone else. Even though it's probably about time that some should be.


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#19 Richdg

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 05:09 PM

Kip, if Mantha is the next Primeau then he is pretty damn good!



#20 e_prime

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:14 PM

Kip, if Mantha is the next Primeau then he is pretty damn good!

Just as long as the s***ty attitude and concussions aren't part of that equation, I'm all for Mantha being Primeau-esque.

 

We're talking Keith not Wayne, right?


QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.





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