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TheDetroitRedWings

Alfie informs Wings he wants to return

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One year, 3-3.5m and I think it is a perfectly fine deal.

I sorta doubt the Wings had any plans to go after any of the top forward FAs anyways, and would have had to overpay to land any of them.

I hope they can now just focus on defense.

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But honestly, who does everyone think this 'magic FA signing' was going to be anyway? People are talking about the fact that they regret KH signing Alfie now because it'll inhibit any free agent forward signing, whilst forgetting about the fact that the priority is to sign or trade for a defenseman. But Stastny wouldn't help, because we're good at C. Moulson? Is going to get horrendously overpaid and is probably overrated anyway from playing several years on Tavares wing. Gaborik? Will 99% be re-signing in LA. Vanek? Going to get massively overpaid and is lazy. Iginla? Maybe but he's 36 and wants to stay in Boston.

So what's the issue here? Does anyone really feel that signing one of those players mentioned above would put us over the top? Surely it's more important for KH to address the glaring need on D? Thus, bringing Alfie back solidifies our top 6, he had a good season last year and hopefully a healthy, productive season from Stephen Weiss will go along way towards having a productive season.

Edited by wings4thecup06

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Alfie like many other of the over the hill Holland signings would have been fine and a very good addition to stacked roster, which is supposed to compete fro the Stanley Cup. The Wings on the other hand are looking at twilight, rebuildphase soon. Once this team is ready to compete again, Alfie will be gone and the team will still struggle with chemistry if we keep adding these "patchwork" players.

Would I want a guy like Vanek? For sure not but there are other options outthere or at least test out some younger GR players (i.e Jurco), it's not like this team is a surefire one to make the playoffs anyways so why not give the youth a chance ? Also the Alfie signing does nothing in terms of adressing two of the biggest holes this roster has.

1. plan going to forward ? I really don't see a plan here I honestly thought after last season we would be done with signing, bringing back players that will soon retire.

2. defense why not fix the defense wfirst and then decide what to do with the forwards ? It's not like Alfie is a must sign.

_Another thing I wanted to mention is why not allow him to end his legacy where it begun? Let him go back to Ottawa, get his number retired there and enjoy a well earned wealthy retirement.

Either Kenny has become too emotionally to his roster or he really lacks the fire he used to have..remember when the Wings needed goaltending ? Boom we sign Hasek...we need a physical presence alongside DMac and Probert ? Boom Shanahan, make the defense even stronger? Boom Stuart..that's the way to get things done and nowadays ? The last top UFA this team has signed was Hossa and only because he offered us a 1 year contract.

I get it, Niskanen will get overpaid by a team but there is a reason why this thing is called free agency sometimes you have to take a risk and overpay if you expect to fix a team. Also there might be a guy like Callahan available so it's not like Alfie is the best UFA option, also he doesn't make our team bigger or tougher to play against.

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Alfie like many other of the over the hill Holland signings would have been fine and a very good addition to stacked roster, which is supposed to compete fro the Stanley Cup. The Wings on the other hand are looking at twilight, rebuildphase soon. Once this team is ready to compete again, Alfie will be gone and the team will still struggle with chemistry if we keep adding these "patchwork" players.

Would I want a guy like Vanek? For sure not but there are other options outthere or at least test out some younger GR players (i.e Jurco), it's not like this team is a surefire one to make the playoffs anyways so why not give the youth a chance ? Also the Alfie signing does nothing in terms of adressing two of the biggest holes this roster has.

1. plan going to forward ? I really don't see a plan here I honestly thought after last season we would be done with signing, bringing back players that will soon retire.

2. defense why not fix the defense wfirst and then decide what to do with the forwards ? It's not like Alfie is a must sign.

_Another thing I wanted to mention is why not allow him to end his legacy where it begun? Let him go back to Ottawa, get his number retired there and enjoy a well earned wealthy retirement.

Either Kenny has become too emotionally to his roster or he really lacks the fire he used to have..remember when the Wings needed goaltending ? Boom we sign Hasek...we need a physical presence alongside DMac and Probert ? Boom Shanahan, make the defense even stronger? Boom Stuart..that's the way to get things done and nowadays ? The last top UFA this team has signed was Hossa and only because he offered us a 1 year contract.

I get it, Niskanen will get overpaid by a team but there is a reason why this thing is called free agency sometimes you have to take a risk and overpay if you expect to fix a team. Also there might be a guy like Callahan available so it's not like Alfie is the best UFA option, also he doesn't make our team bigger or tougher to play against.

I think the general thing here though is, that if this team (including the kids now) can actually get fully healthy and perform like it should, then Alfie is that complementary player that every team needs to help them get the extra bit further. I don't think he'd consider going back to Ottawa after the debacle last summer. I think they've (Murray and Alfie) have burned that bridge. Obviously lots of people here are in favour, and lots of people are against this move. But at the end of the day, KH we've just brought back an affordable (relatively, pending the $$$) scoring winger that we are in desperate need of.

As for the D first, I get that. But nothing really has started rolling yet. GMs can't start talking to FA's until wednesday, and the draft isn't until friday when all the GMs are in the same room for 2 days. If you have an opportunity to add something to your team I think you'd do it straight away regardless of the order you want to get things done in.

There was a common theme amongst the old days when we could trade for guys like Hasek and Shanahan and that was the fact that there was no salary cap. We can't do that these days, because unlike before, you can't trade away all your top prospects for high end players and then plug your holes through free agency. There isn't the money, and all the loopholes have been closed. It is what it is today, you have to draft, develop, and supplement where you can without sacrificing your future.

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It's better to have depth, then not have any at all.

When injuries happen and we have to call up a kid that isn't ready to replace D, Z, Mule or whoever (knock on wood no injuries). I would rather have Alfie then not have him. I highly doubt a kid will come up and produce at the level Alfie will, and provide veteran leadership.

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This bothers me way more than the Cleary try out. Alfie's looking to sign a deal and eat cap $$$ and top six minutes. Cleary is going to be evaluated in camp...if his knee can take the abuse he's either on the third or ...more likely...fourth line or in Grand Rapids teaching Teemu and Athanasiou "Gritty 101"

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Guest DeGraa55   
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Btw I'm clearly against bringing him back but are people really worried about the cap hit? Lol. It doesn't matter if he signs for 1m or 10m. We won't be close to the ceiling cause KH won't sign or trade for anyone.

I'm against it because he takes a valuable roster spot. I'd rather jurco be playing than him for example.

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Btw I'm clearly against bringing him back but are people really worried about the cap hit? Lol. It doesn't matter if he signs for 1m or 10m. We won't be close to the ceiling cause KH won't sign or trade for anyone.

I'm against it because he takes a valuable roster spot. I'd rather jurco be playing than him for example.

Why can't they both be playing?

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For three years now we have been ravaged by injuries. So what is our answer? Bring back more of the same old broken down players that just don't have it any more and expect different results. Before the puck even drops we already have 100 man games lost to injuries. The combo of datsyuk, Z, Alfie, Franzen, Helm, and Alfie once it is official will combine to miss 100 games. At some point the GM needs to be held accountable for the injuries due to the fact he is the one bringing in broken down bodies. if Cleary returns there is another 20+ man games lost. That is before any of the other players get hurt which of course some will. So here we are on June 24th and we can expect another 200 man games lost do to injury and we are not even to training camp yet. Great times to be a Red Wing Fan! Maybe a name change is in order. The Red Cross Wings..........

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Guest DeGraa55   
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Why can't they both be playing?

Cause we got spots for 12 and with cleary and Alfie we will have what? 16 17? And holland favors the vets over kids.

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Cause we got spots for 12 and with cleary and Alfie we will have what? 16 17? And holland favors the vets over kids.

I haven't seen cleary getting a roster spot yet he isn't even signed, plus most likely he will be playing in GR. I think both alfy and jurco will be in the lineup, with either glenny or miller sitting along with one of Callahan/Ferraro

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I haven't seen cleary getting a roster spot yet he isn't even signed, plus most likely he will be playing in GR. I think both alfy and jurco will be in the lineup, with either glenny or miller sitting along with one of Callahan/Ferraro

Ya we will see. Cause people that actually pay attention to what holland and Babcock do lnow there is a love affair with cleary so he will be in the lineup....based on their proven track records.

Edited by DeGraa55

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I'm not really shocked that everybody's ok with this. I'm positive that if this were some other 42 year old who scored 49 pts. last year people would be calling for Holland's head. Hell, people were more than happy to see Legwand walk and he scored 51 pts. last year. But it's "Alfie" and so our collective intelligence flies out the window. This all but ensures our forward lines are not noticeably different this year. It also means that no quality free agents come our way (not that we'd have paid for them anyway). Why would anybody who wants to win come to a team that BARELY made the playoffs this year, got roasted in the first round, and then did nothing at all to improve themselves? To play with Dats and Z? Not really sure that has the allure it did five years ago.

Meanwhile, rumor has it that both St. Louis and Chicago are in on Kesler. WAY better teams than us are trying to get better and we've standing pat with our fingers crossed, hoping that it's really just bad luck holding us back.

It's not.

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Exactly DeGraa!

I may have ran off on a tangent yesterday, but the point remains, Alfie doesn't make this team any better. He doesn't bring us anything that will help us advance further into the playoffs. Sure last year was injury plagued, but does anyone think that its not going to happen again? Holland s hedging his bets that it won't, because all I hear is stuff like, last year when he was healthy, having a healthy (insert player name) will help the team... We are going to see Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Helm, Franzine, Ericsson, Gustavsson AND Alfredsson ALL go down with injuries...it happens every year and instead of hoping it doesn't and remaining status quo, Holland should be planning on it to happen, and taking measures to combat it. I know you cannot predict injuries and they can (and do) happen to everyone. But when there is a history, why keep going back to that well with the same game plan every single f'ing year? This is where I pile back on Holland. Ok, ok, maybe he isn't BY FAR the worst GM in the NHL, but he used to have a set of balls. As mentioned earlier, he needed something he got it. He actually made trades and signings that had humongous effects. Chelios, Hasek, Robitaille, Hull, Schneider, Rafalski, Hossa, Stuart...but it just seems that ever since he made the wrong choice with Franzen (and yes I do understand at the time why he did it) he has become gun shy to make a big deal. He signed Modano, he got injured. He made the deal for Legwand (which I praised both) and Babcock buried him on the 4th line.

He has tried a couple of times to make a deal and got burned, so he just tucks his tail between his legs and keeps signing players that nobody else wants...and this whole, if you come to Detroit, you have to take less money because we're Detroit has to end. A few years ago Wisniewski said he never contacted Detroit because they always try to underpay a player, never pay them market value. At the time I thought it was just sour grapes for some reason, but looking back, its true. He obviously is not the only player with that opinion, this has to be the word around the NHL. Holland low balls everyone. Its true. He got on this "hometown discount" program and the "no one will make more than Lidstrom" program. Well guess what? When Lidstrom is taking hometown discounts, then no one will sign here because they can get fair market value somewhere else. Oh, unless you are old and past your prime and are just looking for a nice contract to finish your career up with. And that is what leads us to Holland....Detroit is no longer a destination for players in their prime, its a destination for players ending their careers... And that, my friends, is what makes Holland past his prime, he has turned Detroit into this because of his lack of balls and his indecisions and wrong decisions...

...signing Alfie would be ok only AFTER he gets that top line scorer, top line defender and better's his goaltending. But he won't. Which became obvious when he re-signed the injury plagued Monster. I know "When Healthy" Monster was doing good....but DAMN IT, Monster is never healthy!!! And Jimmy needs someone to push him or else he just becomes complacent and average. Make that big trade Holland, throw $6M at Niskanen. You got $18M and you are going to overpay Alfie and re-sign Cleary. That does not make the team any better than last season...even "when healthy."

We have to add that one to all of Holland's sayings..."Kicked the tires" "we like our team" "it just wasn't a hockey move" "we threw some numbers out there" "we made some calls" "when healthy"

To me, this team is getting worse and worse and its Holland's fault. I'd love to be wrong. But more times that not, we are all right. I am honestly ready for Holland to move on...to the golf course.

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Ya we will see. Cause people that actually pay attention to what holland and Babcock do lnow there is a love affair with cleary so he will be in the lineup....based on their proven track records.

I guess that is very true. I liked cleary in 08/09 but he doesn't have it anymore. I really hope if he's signed it's two way and he's in the minors, plays 5-10 games and realizes that's it and retires and we give him a front office job

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Guest DeGraa55   
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I guess that is very true. I liked cleary in 08/09 but he doesn't have it anymore. I really hope if he's signed it's two way and he's in the minors, plays 5-10 games and realizes that's it and retires and we give him a front office job

I completely agree I just don't see it happening :(. Hopefully I'm wrong.

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Chicago is not afraid to make changes...why? B O W M A N. Stanley is the GM and Scotty is the advisor....remember when we had Scotty and s*** got done? Kenny is no Scotty and he is proving now that all the success he has is from teams that Scotty built. Teams that Scotty advised to build. Kenny on his own is not a good GM... The Red Wings Nation has been in a downward spiral since 2009 and Kenny, although made a couple of attempts, doesn't know how to make the splash that is needed. Chicago, St. Louis, Boston, LA....just to name a few teams that make deals to make their team better...not just re-sign the same old guys because they are loyal. Loyalty used to get Kings beheaded in England...you have to do what is right for the team...not your buddy.

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Chicago is not afraid to make changes...why? B O W M A N. Stanley is the GM and Scotty is the advisor....remember when we had Scotty and s*** got done? Kenny is no Scotty and he is proving now that all the success he has is from teams that Scotty built. Teams that Scotty advised to build. Kenny on his own is not a good GM... The Red Wings Nation has been in a downward spiral since 2009 and Kenny, although made a couple of attempts, doesn't know how to make the splash that is needed. Chicago, St. Louis, Boston, LA....just to name a few teams that make deals to make their team better...not just re-sign the same old guys because they are loyal. Loyalty used to get Kings beheaded in England...you have to do what is right for the team...not your buddy.

Well said. Agreed.

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Exactly DeGraa!

I may have ran off on a tangent yesterday, but the point remains, Alfie doesn't make this team any better. He doesn't bring us anything that will help us advance further into the playoffs. Sure last year was injury plagued, but does anyone think that its not going to happen again? Holland s hedging his bets that it won't, because all I hear is stuff like, last year when he was healthy, having a healthy (insert player name) will help the team... We are going to see Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Helm, Franzine, Ericsson, Gustavsson AND Alfredsson ALL go down with injuries...it happens every year and instead of hoping it doesn't and remaining status quo, Holland should be planning on it to happen, and taking measures to combat it. I know you cannot predict injuries and they can (and do) happen to everyone. But when there is a history, why keep going back to that well with the same game plan every single f'ing year? This is where I pile back on Holland. Ok, ok, maybe he isn't BY FAR the worst GM in the NHL, but he used to have a set of balls. As mentioned earlier, he needed something he got it. He actually made trades and signings that had humongous effects. Chelios, Hasek, Robitaille, Hull, Schneider, Rafalski, Hossa, Stuart...but it just seems that ever since he made the wrong choice with Franzen (and yes I do understand at the time why he did it) he has become gun shy to make a big deal. He signed Modano, he got injured. He made the deal for Legwand (which I praised both) and Babcock buried him on the 4th line.

He has tried a couple of times to make a deal and got burned, so he just tucks his tail between his legs and keeps signing players that nobody else wants...and this whole, if you come to Detroit, you have to take less money because we're Detroit has to end. A few years ago Wisniewski said he never contacted Detroit because they always try to underpay a player, never pay them market value. At the time I thought it was just sour grapes for some reason, but looking back, its true. He obviously is not the only player with that opinion, this has to be the word around the NHL. Holland low balls everyone. Its true. He got on this "hometown discount" program and the "no one will make more than Lidstrom" program. Well guess what? When Lidstrom is taking hometown discounts, then no one will sign here because they can get fair market value somewhere else. Oh, unless you are old and past your prime and are just looking for a nice contract to finish your career up with. And that is what leads us to Holland....Detroit is no longer a destination for players in their prime, its a destination for players ending their careers... And that, my friends, is what makes Holland past his prime, he has turned Detroit into this because of his lack of balls and his indecisions and wrong decisions...

...signing Alfie would be ok only AFTER he gets that top line scorer, top line defender and better's his goaltending. But he won't. Which became obvious when he re-signed the injury plagued Monster. I know "When Healthy" Monster was doing good....but DAMN IT, Monster is never healthy!!! And Jimmy needs someone to push him or else he just becomes complacent and average. Make that big trade Holland, throw $6M at Niskanen. You got $18M and you are going to overpay Alfie and re-sign Cleary. That does not make the team any better than last season...even "when healthy."

We have to add that one to all of Holland's sayings..."Kicked the tires" "we like our team" "it just wasn't a hockey move" "we threw some numbers out there" "we made some calls" "when healthy"

To me, this team is getting worse and worse and its Holland's fault. I'd love to be wrong. But more times that not, we are all right. I am honestly ready for Holland to move on...to the golf course.

Ditto. Now the summer isn't over. There is still plenty of time to make moves-not that I am expecting any. But if we get to Sep 1 and we have basicly the same roster as last year minus Bert, leg, and sammy, I am going to be pissed. As I posted above, we are already looking at ANOTHER season of 200+ man games lost due to injury, and we are not even to training camp yet. The thing that scares me the most is others are getting to the age were they will start to play fewer games do to injury. Guys like Kronwall, Ericsson, and Howard, who I haven't even added into the 200 game number.

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The amount of negative opinions being spouted around here are incredible. We're not even in July yet and people are calling the season practically as good as dead and all because of what? Because we re-signed one of our best players from last season and we haven't addressed any of our issues yet. I mean, everyone is entitled to their opinions and that's fine, but when you're constantly thrashing out the same old line over and over, it gets a little tiresome. I know I know. KH sucks, Franzen is lazy, Howard will never be the elite goalie that we seem to somehow be entitled to just because we're the Red Wings, our D couldn't win the Calder Cup let alone the Stanley Cup, and we're got a forward group that's full of a bunch of washed up, old, warn out, injury prone veterans who can't even keep up with their own children on the ice anymore.

We all know that success comes in cycles, and that good teams eventually get knocked down a peg a little and then have to build their way back up to the top again. This is precisely what is happening with the Wings right now, and with what we've seen last year that we've got good young kids in DeKeyser, Jurco, Sheahan, Tatar, Nyquist and Mrazek all ready to contribute, why should we trade a bunch of em away when we're not going to get full return on them and when really, right now, they provide our team with energy, skill and desire to win. Alfie coming back helps because he's got a bomb of a shot for the PP, he's still got good wheels, and provides another leadership presence in the room. Those of you who are bashing him, do you really think that our situation would improve if you shoved some unready kid onto top line minutes for the entire season? Don't you think that would actually make our team worse and then we might be 'mediocre'?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not oblivious to the fact that this team has holes, which are primarily on D. But at least for heavens sakes, give management a chance to address them before you start calling for their heads.

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Chicago is not afraid to make changes...why? B O W M A N. Stanley is the GM and Scotty is the advisor....remember when we had Scotty and s*** got done? Kenny is no Scotty and he is proving now that all the success he has is from teams that Scotty built. Teams that Scotty advised to build. Kenny on his own is not a good GM... The Red Wings Nation has been in a downward spiral since 2009 and Kenny, although made a couple of attempts, doesn't know how to make the splash that is needed. Chicago, St. Louis, Boston, LA....just to name a few teams that make deals to make their team better...not just re-sign the same old guys because they are loyal. Loyalty used to get Kings beheaded in England...you have to do what is right for the team...not your buddy.

Holland pushed hard for Kesler last year. So you're attacking him for doing the exact same thing Chicago is doing now. Holland hate is dine but blind rage and hatred all the time is just excessive.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

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Holland pushed hard for Kesler last year. So you're attacking him for doing the exact same thing Chicago is doing now. Holland hate is dine but blind rage and hatred all the time is just excessive.Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

How dare you bring reason and logic to this hate fest...

Everyone was happy we didn't get kesler because everyone agrees the asking price was way too steep.

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Wings4theCup06....please. The amount of negativity? Not even to July yet? Why don' you go back over the past 6 years of summer threads and see how many times someone came here and said "it's not even July yet..." "...not everyone is signed on July 1st..." "...its not even training camp yet..." "...its not October..." "...it's only December..." "...it's not even the All Star Break..." "...just wait until the deadline..."

We are tired of making up excuses for Holland's ineptness to build a winning team. Especially when it is obvious to even NBA fans that the Red Wings need certain pieces to compete again. We are tired of hedging on the team NOT being injured. We are tired of bringing back players just because they are Swedish or Holland owes them a free car wash or Holland promised their wives that they would always have a check coming in...I don get it. Yes, Wings fans have been spoiled for the better part of 25 years, but ever since this became Hollands team and Holland's team only (ie after the last of Scotty's, Bryan Murray's and Jimmy D's team left) it has been downhill, barely grasping to a playoff streak that means a lot, but shouldn't be the goal. We are tired of "just making the playoffs and if we can get to round 2 Z will be 100% and then you never know what will happen." I may be in the minority, but I like being favorites, I like when other teams fans fear us, I like when other cities sell out because of us...Ken Holland has made it to where we are none of that. Datsyuk cannot do it all. Evena healthy Alfie and Cleary cannot help him. Dats needs a high end scoring winger like he had in Hossa. He needs someone that the other team fears just as much as him. Right now we have Z and D and a host of bottom 6er's. Can Nyquist score 30 again? Maybe. But with Franzen and Alfie taking the spots in the top 6, we'll never know. And we'll never know how good Jurco will be while he is buried on the 4th line. We will never know if Datsyuk can get 100 points because of the same old players being re-signed.

It's not even July guys, we are 100% healthy, unfortunately even 100% healthy this is NOT a contender. We need a top line scorer, we need a top line defender and our goaltending needs to be 100% better. Re-signed Gustavsson...strike one. Alfie wants to come back...we are waiting for Holland to deliver the pitch....he re-signs him, then strike two. If he does re-sign him, I cannot wait to hear the reason's why. I think we all know what will be said...the same thing he has said for a long, long time..

It's not even July guys...and Ken Holland is still thinks he has a grand plan. He is not fooling anyone anymore.

It's not even July guys...I will wait to see what happens and when its the same as every July 1st, we unleash Hell. This July Holland needs to be aggressive, not like years past, in order to prove to me that he wants to win a Cup, not just make the playoffs (barely) and see what happens...not this year, not now...

It's not even July yet guys...it's only June, the draft is Friday. I will become a true believer in Holland when he becomes aggressive and makes that bold move...for better or worse, he simply cannot just hope to be healthy...we cannot let the like of Chicago, St. Louis, Boston, Pittsburgh, LA, get better while we sit on our 42 year old hands....we cannot hope to be healthy.

It's not even July guys...I agree, but when it's December and nothing is changed...I don't want to have to say WE TOLD YOU SO...AGAIN!

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