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HockeytownRules19

Red Wings acquire Erik Cole, conditional 3rd from Stars

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Let's take it off the playground and back to respectful trade discussion. Points have been stated, it's getting heated, keep it under control please. The Wings making a trade is almost as rare as the Winter Olympics at this point, let's keep it friendly.

REKT

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Ha. Here's the thing man.

I'm not playing, and even if I were, the sh** you're talking about isn't something you win, your bravado, cockiness, and knowledge of the red wings is all well and good, but you're basing everything you're saying off speculation.

There's no proving your point, and even if and when these prospects, ken Holland, and Jim nill all retire there will be no set way to determine who won this, because hockey IS a game, and their will always be ambiguity about things.

If the prospects make it in one place, theirs no guarantees they would've made it in the other.

And for all this Jim nill ken Holland who's better, who's worthless bs is obnoxious.

The fact that you lay it out So cut and dry, in such matter of fact way with your attitude doesn't make me want to discuss stuff with you, it makes me devalue anything you say.

And anyone who talks about it as such, is not old enough to have an adult conversation on the matter, regardless of age.

The more you know, the less you know.

Now please.

Stop trying to argue with me over something so little.

I don't think we gave up that much.

You do.

I get it.

You're not changing my opinion, no matter how much you tell me you know, and I'm not changing yours. And that's fine.

The problem with entire conversations in text, is clearly, where you insert cockiness where none was implied.

You say outright that you devalue anything I say and i got that sense immediately. Just because something is clearly stated doesn't mean I wouldn't listen to another opinion. If you cared enough, which you already said you don't, you look back and see that (i believe) my second post in this topic was me saying that I'm starting to soften on the deal (in no small part to other people's arguments).

But you've already decided who I am and what i meant.

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You guys are fascinating today...i didn't call you or anyone other than that kid into question. I respect a lot of the people that post here because they post rational, fact based, respectful responses...I just thought his response ("....just because the vibes Holland gives off tell you that he's a crappy gm") was not accurate and was not what i said. But please go back two needlessly making me into "that guy"

Friendly advice:

If you didn't include your first paragraph and the last line of your response, nobody would be giving your a hard time right now. But bringing up your fan history and thumping your chest for being a die hard Wings' fan (on a Wings' forum where 90% of us can easily claim the same credentials or more), then following it up with the snarky comment about "thanks for playing" to close your post came off badly. Very badly. Most of us try to be friendly to one another here, even if we disagree with something, but when comments like that are made, people are going to gang up on you.

Likewise, if you stated an opinion in some other thread and jimmyemeryhunter (or whoever) posted something belittling and arrogant in response, myself and probably several others would come to your aid and attack the perpetrator.

Its just how we roll.

edit: sorry I was typing this up as your warning was being posted Mabus. I do think its worthwhile for anyone interested in having an engaging and respectful conversation to be informed of this, though.

As for the trade itself (to get back on topic), I stated my views a couple pages back in a long-winded post I don't feel like retyping up here, but tl;dr: Cole will contribute here, the prospects we gave up won't. Cole fills a need that the Wings have. Looks like a good trade.

Edited by Echolalia

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If I was Erik Cole, I'd come into Detroit and get in a fight the first game I played. If you punch someone your first game, you can be completely pedestrian the rest of your time here and everyone will still love you. Just ask Brendan Smith.

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If I was Erik Cole, I'd come into Detroit and get in a fight the first game I played. If you punch someone your first game, you can be completely pedestrian the rest of your time here and everyone will still love you. Just ask Brendan Smith.

If Esteef were here he would approve of this logic.

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If I was Erik Cole, I'd come into Detroit and get in a fight the first game I played. If you punch someone your first game, you can be completely pedestrian the rest of your time here and everyone will still love you. Just ask Brendan Smith.

SMITTY IS YANDLE/PRUST ALL IN ONE. I love him.

Doesn't mean i disrepect others. Geez.

JEEZ*

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Friendly advice:

If you didn't include your first paragraph and the last line of your response, nobody would be giving your a hard time right now. But bringing up your fan history and thumping your chest for being a die hard Wings' fan (on a Wings' forum where 90% of us can easily claim the same credentials or more), then following it up with the snarky comment about "thanks for playing" to close your post came off badly. Very badly. Most of us try to be friendly to one another here, even if we disagree with something, but when comments like that are made, people are going to gang up on you.

Likewise, if you stated an opinion in some other thread and jimmyemeryhunter (or whoever) posted something belittling and arrogant in response, myself and probably several others would come to your aid and attack the perpetrator.

Its just how we roll.

I appreciate your response. Thanks for being decent...and I only said "thanks for playing" because i was clearly being called out and disrespected before hand. I felt like the person i quoted was being unneccessarily instigating.

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I appreciate your response. Thanks for being decent...and I only said "thanks for playing" because i was clearly being called out and disrespected before hand. I felt like the person i quoted was being unneccessarily instigating.

Yes, You you've never done that. NEVER.

Reilly's brother was recently described by one of our peers as "a dynamic two way defenseman". If Cole punched somebody, he'd be an "elite power forward" in no time.

Whoa. Wait a minute. He can punch???? I'd argue that makes him our best player.

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Well then, either Illitch has no balls, or Holland's not as big as a pushover as you think he is.

Or Illitch was maybe just talking.

I don't take it as not being a pushover...i view it as selfish. Sure, it his job. A job that he's had 4 times as long as 95% of GM's. That said, he knew what Yzerman meant to this franchise, the city, and to the Ilitch family. I'm sure he would have been paid as much. If he was so unhappy, most teams would have hired him id imagine. But he HAD to be the GM at the expense of Yzerman leaving...most likely to not return. That, to me, isn't balls...its almost disrespectful to the wishes of the owner and the fans.

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I don't take it as not being a pushover...i view it as selfish. Sure, it his job. A job that he's had 4 times as long as 95% of GM's. That said, he knew what Yzerman meant to this franchise, the city, and to the Ilitch family. I'm sure he would have been paid as much. If he was so unhappy, most teams would have hired him id imagine. But he HAD to be the GM at the expense of Yzerman leaving...most likely to not return. That, to me, isn't balls...its almost disrespectful to the wishes of the owner and the fans.

I know. I quit my job recently because the guy I trained to be a manager (I'm a manager as well) wanted my job. So instead on sending him to the branch that needed a manager I stepped down and assumed a corporate job I hate. Ain't I a good guy? Praise me.

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I appreciate your response. Thanks for being decent...and I only said "thanks for playing" because i was clearly being called out and disrespected before hand. I felt like the person i quoted was being unneccessarily instigating.

I was responding to your posts in the same tone and context to which I was being spoken to, if you found that to be instigating, then I apologize for that and "calling you out."

I wasn't disrespecting you, I was stating my opinion on the matter.

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I was responding to your posts in the same tone and context to which I was being spoken to, if you found that to be instigating, then I apologize for that and "calling you out."

I wasn't disrespecting you, I was stating my opinion on the matter.

I was responding to your posts in the same tone and context to which I was being spoken to, if you found that to be instigating, then I apologize for that and "calling you out."

I wasn't disrespecting you, I was stating my opinion on the matter.

NO YOU HURT MY FEELINGS

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Sooooo, the Cole trade was a good one then? Or bad? I'm confused by this thread?

Does Holland suck for the Cole thing or no? I mean, I already know he sucks for not giving his job to a less qualified dude, just because said dude is a feel good story. But does he suck for the trade?

Edited by kipwinger

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Lol. Holland's overrated because his assistants are the ones who really do all the scouting, drafting, development?

If that's the standard, Holland is even better than you think. Because back when he was the Director of Amateur Scouting the Red Wings scouted and drafted Osgood, Konstantinov, Lidstrom, Lapointe, Fedorov, McCarty, Drake...

He's held, and excelled, at almost every single job in the organization because he's incredibly competent. No matter what the position, he's excelled at it. To say otherwise is laughable.

Case in point, in reference to my inability to be swayed (sarcasm)...

I forgot about Holland holding the Director of Amateur Scouting position at that time...which is certainly impressive.

Even since Holland has been making bad trades...they have done a masterful job of rebuilding through scouting/draft. My point was (although i can see where i did a bad job of getting it across) was that we can't say with must accuracy that we can credit Holland for that. There are so many moving pieces with scouting/drafting...but there isn't nearly as much in trading.

I know. I quit my job recently because the guy I trained to be a manager (I'm a manager as well) wanted my job. So instead on sending him to the branch that needed a manager I stepped down and assumed a corporate job I hate. Ain't I a good guy? Praise me.

Obviously that isn't the same situation. I understand your logic, but your trainee wasn't Steve Yzerman. Your boss wasn't Ilitch and you aren't making a truckload of money to run a sports team.

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I don't take it as not being a pushover...i view it as selfish. Sure, it his job. A job that he's had 4 times as long as 95% of GM's. That said, he knew what Yzerman meant to this franchise, the city, and to the Ilitch family. I'm sure he would have been paid as much. If he was so unhappy, most teams would have hired him id imagine. But he HAD to be the GM at the expense of Yzerman leaving...most likely to not return. That, to me, isn't balls...its almost disrespectful to the wishes of the owner and the fans.

Holland is and was considered the best GM around by a lot of the media. He's done a lot for the organization. It would be disrespectful to him to make him give up his job just because a former player wanted the spot. As for "the wishes of the owner and the fans." don;t assume your opinion it that of all Red Wings fans. I see all he's done and I'm glad he the man at the Helm.

Edit: And I know Yzerman wasn't just a former player, but you know what mean.

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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I wonder if well end up with a d man tomorrow.

With Hollands quotes about wanting to help the guys out for working so hard, and him showing that he's active today in getting Erik cole, I'm excited for tomorrow.

I hope we do in one way, but I'm terrified that a name we can't stomach see leave will be leaving to make it happen. Edmonton wants blood for Jeff Petry (?!?)...a guy they scratched earlier this year. I think Zidlicky is the only one we could get without mortgaging the future and i personally think thats the guy we should get anyway.

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Case in point, in reference to my inability to be swayed (sarcasm)...

I forgot about Holland holding the Director of Amateur Scouting position at that time...which is certainly impressive.

Even since Holland has been making bad trades...they have done a masterful job of rebuilding through scouting/draft. My point was (although i can see where i did a bad job of getting it across) was that we can't say with must accuracy that we can credit Holland for that. There are so many moving pieces with scouting/drafting...but there isn't nearly as much in trading.

Obviously that isn't the same situation. I understand your logic, but your trainee wasn't Steve Yzerman. Your boss wasn't Ilitch and you aren't making a truckload of money to run a sports team.

Then you obviously know nothing about me you 29 year old fool. You've only been following the wings for 21 years? Pathetic.

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Holland is and was considered the best GM around by a lot of the media. He's done a lot for the organization. It would be disrespectful to him to make him give up his job just because a former player wanted the spot. As for "the wishes of the owner and the fans." don;t assume your opinion it that of all Red Wings fans. I see all he's done and I'm glad he the man at the Helm.

Dellevano stepped aside for Holland, if I'm not mistaken. Its not unheard of. Also, although I'm sure Yzerman wanted it...Ilitch wanted him to have it. Ilitch wanted Yzerman to stay. And i personally am not heartbroken Yzerman runs the show in TB...Im glad he got to be the guy somewhere. I just believe if Ilitch and the fans would have had their first choice, he would have stayed.

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I don't take it as not being a pushover...i view it as selfish. Sure, it his job. A job that he's had 4 times as long as 95% of GM's. That said, he knew what Yzerman meant to this franchise, the city, and to the Ilitch family. I'm sure he would have been paid as much. If he was so unhappy, most teams would have hired him id imagine. But he HAD to be the GM at the expense of Yzerman leaving...most likely to not return. That, to me, isn't balls...its almost disrespectful to the wishes of the owner and the fans.

If Illitch really wanted Yzerman to replace Holland, you don't think he could have done this? Pretty sure a franchise that has helped Russians defect, could force a current GM to step aside. To me, Ilitch was trying to do some damage control when Yzerman left (for the sake of fans like you) by saying "I love Stevie, I did everything I could to get him to stay", when really he was probably thinking "I love Stevie, but Kenny's the best GM in the NHL, so I probably shouldn't force him to give up his job to a rookie GM"

Just my opinion, of course.

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Then you obviously know nothing about me you 29 year old fool. You've only been following the wings for 21 years? Pathetic.

Thanks again...im sure you got some more venom for me. I stopped several posts ago. My response to you was only for perspectives sake...because they are very different scenarios, even if the structure is the same.

If Illitch really wanted Yzerman to replace Holland, you don't think he could have done this? Pretty sure a franchise that has helped Russians defect, could force a current GM to step aside. To me, Ilitch was trying to do some damage control when Yzerman left (for the sake of fans like you) by saying "I love Stevie, I did everything I could to get him to stay", when really he was probably thinking "I love Stevie, but Kenny's the best GM in the NHL, so I probably shouldn't force him to give up his job to a rookie GM"

Just my opinion, of course.

I think you're right. Ilitch could have MADE it happen...but i don't think he's that type of guy. And I think, as I said in a previous post, that Holland still would have had significant say in what went on, so it wouldn't exactly be like completely handing Stevie the reigns.

PS...If no one has got the point yet, i didn't use my age as some ultimate stick of authority. Clearly I'm not old or know everything. I said it because i wanted to back up my point that i wasn't judging on "vibes" and that i have a long history of playing and following the game enough to not base a judgement on how feel every 10 minutes.

Edited by achildr1

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