Richdg 267 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 For many years many of us have whined about the RW's being a team of "small euros". That of course has been changing. As the average size of players in the NHL gets bigger the RW's are now following suit. If one goes to the RW's home page and clicks on the "prospects" rosters it is very plain to see. There are currently 22 F and 9 Dmen listed on the prospects roster. Of those 31 players, only 2 are listed as being under 6ft tall. Pulks and Hicketts. That is it. of the 22 forwards listed, only 9 are lsited as 6-1 or shorter. The other 13 are all 6-2 or taller. For the Dmen only 3 are listed at 6-1 or shorter. Clearly the team is getting bigger. That is a good thing. The average size of players in the NHL is about 6-1/210 and growing. Kudos to Holland and his team for drafting players that fit the modern NHL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 This is a little misleading. A lot of these prospects aren't known for physicality and many of them are Euros. Being tall by itself doesn't make you a force to play against. For instance, Drew Miller is 6'2, but he's not a tougher physical presence than the much shorter Tootoo. Franzen is 6'3, but has always played like a wuss. Guys like Callahan and Ferraro are barely 6'0 tall, and they play a physical style. 1 LeftWinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twopups 19 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 This is a little misleading. A lot of these prospects aren't known for physicality and many of them are Euros. Being tall by itself doesn't make you a force to play against. For instance, Drew Miller is 6'2, but he's not a tougher physical presence than the much shorter Tootoo. Franzen is 6'3, but has always played like a wuss. Guys like Callahan and Ferraro are barely 6'0 tall, and they play a physical style. Francine playing like a "WUSS" has probably contributed to his concussion problems as players will pound without fear of getting their ass kicked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 Francine playing like a "WUSS" has probably contributed to his concussion problems as players will pound without fear of getting their ass kicked. Agreed, plus it must be a little nerve racking to think that if you hit someone it could end your season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 Francine playing like a "WUSS" has probably contributed to his concussion problems as players will pound without fear of getting their ass kicked. He's always played a soft game for his size. Even before the concussion issues. But I don't expect or want him to be aggressive at this point. I realize that's not going to happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 Franzen was a beast in front of the net back in the day and took a serious beating. He was the last true power forward we had even though he didn't fight which imo doesn't make somebody a power forward Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivalred 630 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 Franzen was a beast in front of the net back in the day and took a serious beating. He was the last true power forward we had even though he didn't fight which imo doesn't make somebody a power forward Homer took a beating in front of the next and along the boards more than Franzen Just wanted to point this out.... Don't know if Franzen can be labeled a power forward 1 LeftWinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,964 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) LOL, TRUE? power forward...find us a goal of his where he even came close to battling and scoring a dirty goal while being a "beast" in front of the net. I will give him his scoring props back in the day, but even at his size, he was never a power forward, he was always a finesse scorer from the slot. Calling him a power forward is an absolute insult to the likes of the REAL TRUE power forwards in the NHL. Backes? Power Forward. Franzen, NEVER, EVER and NEVER... Edited August 19, 2015 by LeftWinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 Franzen was a beast in front of the net back in the day and took a serious beating. He was the last true power forward we had even though he didn't fight which imo doesn't make somebody a power forward Whether a power forward has to fight is frequently debated, but it's almost unanimously considered that a power forward has to be somewhat physical and aggressive near the net. I've never considered Franzen to be a power forward. He's a sniper who scored about 30 goals in his prime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,529 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 LOL, power forward...find us a goal of his where he even came close to battling and scoring a dirty goal while being a "beast" in front of the net. I will give him his scoring props back in the day, but even at his size, he was never a power forward, he was always a finesse scorer from the slot. I stopped watching after the first four goals, since they were all scored in and around the crease. So here are four, off the bat. 1 Bully76 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivalred 630 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 Homer took a beating in front of the next and along the boards more than Franzen Just wanted to point this out.... Don't know if Franzen can be labeled a power forward https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W--KJFL_Y38 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Helmethead 235 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 Either way, Mule was a key cog in the Red Wings machine. Can he still be? I don't know. He did pretty well for a guy who when he came over here was pegged to be a 4th line centre. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 Lol the expectations people have of Franzen are unreal. He's a wuss cause he doesn't play dirty/hit a lot/fight!!!!! Guess who also doesn't do those things? 90% of the Red Wings roster. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are wusses too then I guess right? I mean why do Tatar and Nyquist get a pass? They're both wussys. Franzen's got a few inches and pounds on those guys and therefore must be held to a high physicality standard, that seems to not apply at all to most of our other players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,964 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) LOL at you Kip....I guess you should've kept watching, even your first 4 goals, I saw ONE that was a quick dig out of the goalie pads for a goal, but it was hardly a dirty power forward goal. The rest were mostly finesse, empty net, wrist/snapper shots from the slot. Good try though...I will give ya the one maybe another later on that resembled a "dirty" power forward type goal, but in reality it really wasn't. I will add, though, that all of those goals were scored before his "serious contract" in which, as in most cases, he earned then decided to take the rest of his career off to collect the money. He hasn't come anywhere NEAR that player since he re-signed. He should give money BACK to the Wings. Edited August 19, 2015 by LeftWinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 This is a little misleading. A lot of these prospects aren't known for physicality and many of them are Euros. Being tall by itself doesn't make you a force to play against. For instance, Drew Miller is 6'2, but he's not a tougher physical presence than the much shorter Tootoo. Franzen is 6'3, but has always played like a wuss. Guys like Callahan and Ferraro are barely 6'0 tall, and they play a physical style. No it is spot on. I did not say more physical. I said bigger, which is in fact true. We are getting to be a bigger team from a system stand point. Teams don't have to be physical to win- blackhawks prove this point. But they are a decent sized team. Toews is a good example. he is lsited as 6-2/205. That would make him one of the biggest F's on our team atm. Kings on the other hand are big and physical. Both have great skill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) BTW, did anyone else think this thread would be about steroids when reading the title? Edited August 19, 2015 by GMRwings1983 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 For what it's worth, neither the Lightning nor the Blackhawks are especially big. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 For what it's worth, neither the Lightning nor the Blackhawks are especially big. If you don't count Bishop. LOL. The Blackhawks are ghosts talent wise. But they did have size in their Cup runs with Bickell and Bufflin. Every Cup team needs some kind of grit and size. Can't win on talent and speed alone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Ppl don't remember how teams used to hate playing against Franzen he was getting hacked and whacked all game for a reason. He really frustrated a lot of guys Size isn't all about being physical. It clears lanes and draws coverage boxes ppl out Edited August 19, 2015 by joesuffP 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Helmethead 235 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 Cam Neely was the ultimate power forward. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,529 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 So what about a guy like Jagr? Is he not a power forward? He doesn't fight, rarely hits, and he's highly skilled, but he's consistently lauded for his size, strength, and imposing physical play. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Helmethead 235 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 I'd consider Jagr a power forward. His game is suited to using his tree trunk legs to hold onto the puck which compliments his high hockey IQ and elite high end skill to dominate. Well did. Which shows how he can still play into his 40s and still be effective. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) I wouldn't consider Jagr a power forward either. To me a power forward does have to fight. But even if you exclude fighting, I still think of a power forward as a big, gritty player who plays a chippy style in front of the net and can score goals. Jagr doesn't really qualify. We can all find highlights of guys scoring goals in the crease. Gretzky scored plenty of goals in the crease too. Of course, "power forward" is a hockey term that doesn't actually exist, much like "defensive defenseman". Meaning, it's very subjective. But traditionally, it's been used to describe players like Howe, Neely, Shanahan, Tocchet, Lindros, etc. Not a Jagr or a Franzen. Edited August 19, 2015 by GMRwings1983 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 BTW, did anyone else think this thread would be about steroids when reading the title? I was going to just post the word steroids, And say nothing else but reading through the thread it wouldn't have made sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted August 19, 2015 Wings needed to get bigger and nastier to play against. Back in the day this wasn't just a highly skilled team the wings were also a right no nonsense or else group. Mess with Stevie and Koccur or McCarty are going to mess with you , Shanahan wasn't afraid to mix it up either. Downey showed the Avalanche that cheapshots aren't going to fly.. Nowadays this team is playing like a bunch of *******, only Ericsson and Abdelkader are willing to stand up for themselves or other players. This soft Euro style is boring as hell to watch, back in the days the Wings were a very entertaining team because they could play every style and succeed. Jagr is not a power forward he is a big guy who uses his size to protect the puck extremely well but he doesn't play with the same edge like Lucic, Backes, Getzlaf and Shanahan do/did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites