Datsyuk Now 7th in All-Time Wings Goals

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Not to put words in anyone's mouth, but to be fair,it sounds like he is posing the question "is Larkin in 2016 better then Datsyuk in 2016", not is Larkin better then Datsyuk in his prime.

Either way, my answer would still be no. I think Larkin is the more consistent player in 2016 due to him healthier/younger, but if we were in a game 7 and I could only have one or the other, I am taking Datsyuk every time.

There is nobody who comes close to a healthy Pasha in a game 7 on this team and to be fair this shouldn't be expected from a 18 year old rookie.

Not even McJesus could coop with that sort of pressure.

[toby91_ca 620]

To be fair, picking Datsyuk over Larkin for a game 7 doesn't mean Datsyuk is the better player, it means he has way more experience and the experience cannot be understated when it comes to playoffs.

Ignoring that though, it's a close call, but Datsyuk is probably still the better player (unlikely to continue into next year though). It is a bit sad that the team doesn't currently have any top end scorers....on the other hand, they are still getting results.

[kliq 3,755]

There is nobody who comes close to a healthy Pasha in a game 7 on this team and to be fair this shouldn't be expected from a 18 year old rookie.

Not even McJesus could coop with that sort of pressure.

I agree, but I cant get behind calling a 19 year old kid "McJesus". There is something really creepy about that.

[Barrie 900]

Larkin's only 19, he's being compared to Toews. He's the front runner to replace Datsyuk.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I agree, but I cant get behind calling a 19 year old kid "McJesus". There is something really creepy about that.

Yeah but that's what the Oilers are calling him.

Also I won't expect Larkin to become as good as Toews, Pasha such high expectations are deemed to fail. I just hope he can develop at his own pace and a become a very good player for the Wings.

[kickazz 5,459]

Yeah but that's what the Oilers are calling him.

Also I won't expect Larkin to become as good as Toews, Pasha such high expectations are deemed to fail. I just hope he can develop at his own pace and a become a very good player for the Wings.

To even use the two in the same sentence of comparison is crazy. Datsyuk in his prime was at a level Toews never has been at and never will be. Better at defense, better at pick pocketing, better at scoring, better at shootouts, better shot, better stick handling and likely one of the best visions on ice next to Crosby, Thornton (in his prime).

Larkin will likely be as good as Toews maybe even better. By the way it's not THAT big of a deal to be better than Toews. He's not that AMAZING of a player. Toews is probably a good first comparison to make. First comes Toews, then comes the league of Crosby, Datsyuk, Malkin and the rest of the world's best in their primes.

I don't see Larkin ever being as good as Datsyuk. But who knows.

Edited February 18, 2016 by kickazz

[Bill Berzeench 310]

To even use the two in the same sentence of comparison is crazy. Datsyuk in his prime was at a level Toews never has been at and never will be. Better at defense, better at pick pocketing, better at scoring, better at shootouts, better shot, better stick handling and likely one of the best visions on ice next to Crosby, Thornton (in his prime).

Larkin will likely be as good as Toews maybe even better. By the way it's not THAT big of a deal to be better than Toews. He's not that AMAZING of a player. Toews is probably a good first comparison to make. First comes Toews, then comes the league of Crosby, Datsyuk, Malkin and the rest of the world's best in their primes.

I don't see Larkin ever being as good as Datsyuk. But who knows.

You are DEAD WRONG on Toews, kickazz. He's awesome. 548 pts in 625 games and a +190. 3 stanley cups and a few selkes. He's so much better than you think. I can't stand him, but he's awesome.

[kickazz 5,459]

You are DEAD WRONG on Toews, kickazz. He's awesome. 548 pts in 625 games and a +190. 3 stanley cups and a few selkes. He's so much better than you think. I can't stand him, but he's awesome.

K

So according to you Toews is as good or a better player than Datsyuk was.

Good to know. Laughable, but definitely good to know.

Edited February 21, 2016 by kickazz

[Bill Berzeench 310]

K

So according to you Toews is as good or a better player than Datsyuk was.

Good to know. Laughable, but definitely good to know.

This is the Detroit Homer take on it. Chicago fans would laugh at you, kickazz. The hardware doesnt lie. Toews is 27 and already has more of it than Datsyuk.

[kickazz 5,459]

This is the Detroit Homer take on it. Chicago fans would laugh at you, kickazz. The hardware doesnt lie. Toews is 27 and already has more of it than Datsyuk.

Toews is better than Datsyuk in his prime? Prove it.

Edited February 21, 2016 by kickazz

[Bill Berzeench 310]

Toews is better than Datsyuk in his prime? Prove it.

By age 27, here are the hardware counts:

Stanleys = 3 to 1 Toews

Selkes = 1 to 0 Toews

Conn Smythes = 1 to 0 Toews

And point counts:

548 to 241 Toews

And +/- counts:

190 to 50 Toews

More everything for Toews at equal stages of their lives/careers.

Datsyuk has a higher points per game average, so if you only use ppg for your "better" argument, then you are right.

Otherwise, total fail.

[kickazz 5,459]

By age 27, here are the hardware counts:

Stanleys = 3 to 1 Toews

Selkes = 1 to 0 Toews

Conn Smythes = 1 to 0 Toews

And point counts:

548 to 241 Toews

And +/- counts:

190 to 50 Toews

More everything for Toews at equal stages of their lives/careers.

Datsyuk has a higher points per game average, so if you only use ppg for your "better" argument, then you are right.

Otherwise, total fail.

What were the ages of Datsyuk and Toews when they each entered the league?

^ With that one sentence your entire argument and paragraph just got wasted.

Come on Bill need better evidence. You haven't convinced me (even Chicago fans laughing at Kickazz are wondering why you haven't come up with a better argument for them).

You're not trying hard enough!

Edited February 21, 2016 by kickazz

[Echolalia 2,961]

Toews is better than Datsyuk in his prime? Prove it.

By age 27, here are the hardware counts:

Stanleys = 3 to 1 Toews

Selkes = 1 to 0 Toews

Conn Smythes = 1 to 0 Toews

And point counts:

548 to 241 Toews

And +/- counts:

190 to 50 Toews

More everything for Toews at equal stages of their lives/careers.

Datsyuk has a higher points per game average, so if you only use ppg for your "better" argument, then you are right.

Otherwise, total fail.

What's the significance of going by their career successes only up to age 27? I'm failing to see how that is a necessity to determine who is the better player. What it does do is skew the numbers horribly in Toews' favor. You're essentially comparing what Datsyuk was able to do in 3 years to what Toews was able to do in 8 years, and then arguing that because Toews did more in those 8 years hes the better player.

Also, regardless of how you want to cut the seasons to try to argue your case, Stanely Cup count is a horrible indicator to determine who is better because its a function of team skill, not individual skill, and also has a lot to do with luck, health, and relative quality of opposition during the cup run. Case in point: you know who has more Stanley Cups than Toews? Jeff Beukeboom. Going by your criteria that would make him a better player. We both know that's absurd.

Conn Smyth: Also a problem. Based on relative quality of teammates (and opponents during the SCF) during stanley cup run which makes it a flawed stat to use for a couple reasons. One is that the Blackhawks have won the cup more times than the Wings have during their respective careers (and particularly during your little age restriction), so Toews has had a way better opportunity presented to him to win it than Datsyuk. In addition to that, the winner of this award is measured as a comparison of players in that particular final, and not throughout the rest of the league. Toews winning the Conn Smyth means he was better than his teammates in that particular cup run and thats about it. It doesn't assess how he compares to people on other teams (maybe with the exception of whoever lost in the finals that year), nor does it assess how he compares to players in different years. Mike Vernon has more Conn Smyth trophies than Dominic Hasek and Brodeur (and that's without putting a cute age restriction on the criteria). It clearly doesn't mean he was the best goalie of the three.

[kickazz 5,459]

Tell you what Bill. Why not start a thread with a poll asking who is the better player at their best. Datsyuk or Toews.

[Bill Berzeench 310]

Ok, lets compare them up to age 37.

Datsyuk hands down. Detroit rules. Chicago sucks.

[kliq 3,755]

K

So according to you Toews is as good or a better player than Datsyuk was.

Good to know. Laughable, but definitely good to know.

Completely agree. Take Keith and Kane off that team and Toews becomes nothing special with his accomplishments. I'd love to see Toews on an average or below average team, he would be completely exposed. I cant think of a player who has been blessed with better teammates as him throughout his career.

[Bill Berzeench 310]

Completely agree. Take Keith and Kane off that team and Toews becomes nothing special with his accomplishments. I'd love to see Toews on an average or below average team, he would be completely exposed. I cant think of a player who has been blessed with better teammates as him throughout his career.

I can. Pavel Datsyuk.

[Aethernum 276]

Completely agree. Take Keith and Kane off that team and Toews becomes nothing special with his accomplishments. I'd love to see Toews on an average or below average team, he would be completely exposed. I cant think of a player who has been blessed with better teammates as him throughout his career.

I can. Pavel Datsyuk.

Datsyuk in his prime wins the skills contest every time, but there is no denying the leadership qualities that Toews brings to the table. The one thing you can say about Toews is that he plays his best hockey when the team needs him the most. His ability to step up in the big moments is just about unparalleled in the game today. I love Pasha, and I'd take him at 27 over Toews in terms of raw hockey skill, but if I needed a captain, between those two I'm going with Captain Serious. And that's coming from a diehard Wings fan who has to live in Blackhawks territory and is sick of hearing about him.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Toews on pace for 57 points this year.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Datsyuk in his prime wins the skills contest every time, but there is no denying the leadership qualities that Toews brings to the table. The one thing you can say about Toews is that he plays his best hockey when the team needs him the most. His ability to step up in the big moments is just about unparalleled in the game today. I love Pasha, and I'd take him at 27 over Toews in terms of raw hockey skill, but if I needed a captain, between those two I'm going with Captain Serious. And that's coming from a diehard Wings fan who has to live in Blackhawks territory and is sick of hearing about him.

Kane scored the big goals, not Toews. In fact I think Kane should have won the Conn Smythe the first Stanley Cup since Toews disappeared after the Nashville series. Toews also cried in the box when Detroit was shutting him down remember? It was Seabrook that had to go try to calm him down. He's much like Getzlaf and Perry when they get shut down by Datsyuk and Z, they spaz out and get upset. No matter which way you slice it Datsyuk > Toews. f*** the so called "Intangibles". If Toews was Russian his name wouldn't even be mentioned.

Here's a little reminder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jiqkma-BXo

Edited February 22, 2016 by DatsyukianDekes

[kickazz 5,459]

Datsyuk in his prime wins the skills contest every time, but there is no denying the leadership qualities that Toews brings to the table. The one thing you can say about Toews is that he plays his best hockey when the team needs him the most. His ability to step up in the big moments is just about unparalleled in the game today. I love Pasha, and I'd take him at 27 over Toews in terms of raw hockey skill, but if I needed a captain, between those two I'm going with Captain Serious. And that's coming from a diehard Wings fan who has to live in Blackhawks territory and is sick of hearing about him.

We're talking about hockey skills not leadership.

And even so, Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better leaders than Toews.

Toews showed his true colors when he cried like a little girl when Zetterberg shut him down in 2013.

http://youtu.be/UX_ASK493RQ

Captain serious.. More like captain cry baby. Toews is overrated by the media and by hockey fans. He's a great player and a great leader and I agree. But people get WAY too carried away with the guy.

I dont think people realize what Datsyuk and Zetterberg did when they scored 97 and 92 points while being leading Selke candidates - and then Datsyuk was a Hart trophy candidate following year. I'm pretty sure Datsyuk had like over a 100 takeaways both years too. Toews can only dream to be OVER a PPG player and do all that work on the other end.

Edited February 22, 2016 by kickazz

[Bill Berzeench 310]

The hardware dont lie. Just look at the hardware.

[kickazz 5,459]

The hardware dont lie. Just look at the hardware.

I know. Currently Darren McCarty would be considered a better player than Jonathan Toews. You know.. Cuz he has one more Stanley cup (4 cups) to Toews' 3 cups. Hahahahah. Such great logic.

Edited February 22, 2016 by kickazz

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Tayes is a great player. This thread got screwed up because BB (not Brigitte Bardot) decided to compare stats at age 27. Except, Datsyuk came into the league at age 23, while Tayes came in at age 19.

Of course Tayes is better at 27, but that's irrelevant. But to the other posters, lets not diminish Tayes accomplishments so far in his career. He's a very clutch player and pretty much any team would take him over their number 1 center at this point.

Edited February 22, 2016 by GMRwings1983

[Bill Berzeench 310]

I know. Currently Darren McCarty would be considered a better player than Jonathan Toews. You know.. Cuz he has one more Stanley cup (4 cups) to Toews' 3 cups. Hahahahah. Such great logic.

You might hate looking at the scoreboard, kickazz, but you gotta do it. You know it matters.