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Hockeytown0001

ECSF : Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Washington Capitals

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Damn. Pens win.

The Caps will never win the Cup. Poor Ovi.

Screw Ovechkin, hes a much higher scoring version of Kovalchuck; a Russian prima donna that puts himself before the team. I'd respect him if he did something other than sit in one spot and wait to get fed pucks.

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I heard a theory the other day on Washington and why they'll never win. Ovechkin hasn't been out of the 2nd round in his career. The thought is that you'll never win if your star player is a winger...they just aren't important enough. If you have a stud C, D or G, you have a better chance.

I think the person had a bit of a point, but if the team still has great players at other positions (like Washington does) it shouldn't matter. I do think that you can't build your team around a winger though. If I think back throughout the history of the game, I can't think of any winning teams where that was the case.

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I heard a theory the other day on Washington and why they'll never win. Ovechkin hasn't been out of the 2nd round in his career. The thought is that you'll never win if your star player is a winger...they just aren't important enough. If you have a stud C, D or G, you have a better chance.

I think the person had a bit of a point, but if the team still has great players at other positions (like Washington does) it shouldn't matter. I do think that you can't build your team around a winger though. If I think back throughout the history of the game, I can't think of any winning teams where that was the case.

Pittsburgh tried building around a winger in Jagr and they never could push through in the late 90's. Lafleur was Montreal's best player in the late 70's, but I wouldn't say they built the team around him as they were very well rounded with stars.

So maybe the theory is correct. I'll have to think some more.

Chicago is not built around Kane and he's certainly not the leader of the team.

I guess it depends on the definition of building around a player. Are we talking about a star player surrounded my mediocre players? If so, that team would never win no matter what position the star plays. If we're talking about the best player being a winger, then I already brought up Montreal with Lafleur. You could say the same about Richard or Howe as well.

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i saw everyone push on the caps except Ovi, the guy sucks in meaningful games did nothing with that pp time but wind up for predictable shots and was mostly stationary, i think if they changed the point for that pp time they would get a game 7. once again though Ovechkin is one of the worst in the nhl when it comes to pressure games

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He'd be the most skilled player in NHL history to never win a Cup, by a lot.

Marcel Dionne says "Hi".

I'm kind of shocked that the Caps lost this series, but not shocked at the same time. They did so well all year and then just lost. They put up a fight, but at the same time, I knew it was only because the Caps like to lose in an incredibly painful fashion like coming all the way back from a 3-0 deficit on the road only to lose in OT. Do the Caps make changes after this? I mean, they've been successful, just not in the playoffs. Kind of like the Wings in the mid 90s. What do they need? Better defense? More depth? I feel like if those were a problem they wouldn't be winning Presidents Trophies. At this point, I'm not sure what exactly they need to fix. Ovechkin isn't the problem at all.

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i saw everyone push on the caps except Ovi, the guy sucks in meaningful games did nothing with that pp time but wind up for predictable shots and was mostly stationary, i think if they changed the point for that pp time they would get a game 7. once again though Ovechkin is one of the worst in the nhl when it comes to pressure games

He scored 7 points in this series. More than Crosby. His teammates just don't get it done in the playoffs.

Marcel Dionne says "Hi".

I'm kind of shocked that the Caps lost this series, but not shocked at the same time. They did so well all year and then just lost. They put up a fight, but at the same time, I knew it was only because the Caps like to lose in an incredibly painful fashion like coming all the way back from a 3-0 deficit on the road only to lose in OT. Do the Caps make changes after this? I mean, they've been successful, just not in the playoffs. Kind of like the Wings in the mid 90s. What do they need? Better defense? More depth? I feel like if those were a problem they wouldn't be winning Presidents Trophies. At this point, I'm not sure what exactly they need to fix. Ovechkin isn't the problem at all.

Not having their goalie give up a soft goal at the beginning of the game would help. Remember Varlamov falling apart in game 7 in 2009? Holtby had a great year, but an untimely goal can kill a team's momentum.

However, I think the Pens are a great team and will likely win the Cup. That should also be noted as a reason for the Capitals' failure this year.

But if we're looking over a period of years, the Capitals don't get enough production from offensive players and they likely need more veterans with Cup experience. Would also help to have a coach who's actually been to the Conference Finals.

BTW, I have Ovechkin ranked ahead of Dionne. Dionne scored a ton of points, but Ovechkin dominated his era more.

Edited by GMRwings1983

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You can't always use points to judge. Last night for example, Crosby had dominant shifts at times and set up glorious scoring chances that didn't end up as goals. It wasn't necessarily because his teammates screwed up either, it was mostly due to Holtby, who I must say, was not given enough credit by me during the regular season. He was outstanding.

Ovechkin picked up 2 points last night, but it's not like he did much to get the points, he simply happened to be one of the 2 guys that touched the puck before someone put it in.

EDIT: I already mentioned it earlier as well, it really isn't a big shock that WSH was eliminated by PIT. Not because they are choke artists, but because PIT was that good. PIT had a better record than WSH from Dec or Jan on. It was pretty much 2 evenly matched teams, shouldn't really be considered an upset no matter who won.

The media will keep bringing up Crosby and Ovechkin's head to head records though and it doesn't look good at all for Ovechkin. It's really not fair to keep doing that when we are dealing with a team sport, but I guess I understand it.

Edited by toby91_ca

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BTW, I have Ovechkin ranked ahead of Dionne. Dionne scored a ton of points, but Ovechkin dominated his era more.

Really? Dionne is 6th all time in points and 6th all time in points per game. Bobby Orr is the only other player from that era to have a ppg average higher than him. Dionne was higher than Esposito and LaFleur. I think people just forget how good Dionne was because he never won a championship.

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Really? Dionne is 6th all time in points and 6th all time in points per game. Bobby Orr is the only other player from that era to have a ppg average higher than him. Dionne was higher than Esposito and LaFleur. I think people just forget how good Dionne was because he never won a championship.

I suppose Ron Francis is one of the 5 greatest players ever? Points per game is also overrated due to the era. Ovechkin's points per game are more impressive for this era than Dionne's were back then. Ovechkin has won more individual awards and had more nominations.

Their careers are only similar in that they're great players who never made the Conference Finals. I don't believe Dionne is regarded as a top 3 or top 4 player for his era. Ovechkin only has Crosby to compete with for best player in his era.

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I suppose Ron Francis is one of the 5 greatest players ever? Points per game is also overrated due to the era. Ovechkin's points per game are more impressive for this era than Dionne's were back then. Ovechkin has won more individual awards and had more nominations.

Their careers are only similar in that they're great players who never made the Conference Finals. I don't believe Dionne is regarded as a top 3 or top 4 player for his era. Ovechkin only has Crosby to compete with for best player in his era.

Francis piled up a lot of points because he played for a long time and got a ton of assists. His points per game though is pretty low. Dionne's points per game are up there with Orr, Gretzky and Lemieux. If Ovechkin's points per game in this era are more impressive than Dionne's, using that logic, wouldn't that make him better than Gretzky and Lemieux too? Those two piled up a ton of points during an era when high scoring games were the norm. Ovie has more individual awards and nominations because Dionne played in a more talented league. It was the same way with guys like Yzerman, Stastny and Messier. Great players, but never were going to win individual awards with guys like Lemieux and Gretzky. Put Ovechkin in an era with Phil Esposito and Bobby Orr and he probably doesn't win very many MVP awards or scoring titles. Dionne gets the shaft a lot because he played out in LA for so long, everyone focused on Boston, Montreal and Philly and of course, he didn't win any titles. So he went pretty much unnoticed despite what he did during the 70's and early 80's. I mean, the numbers don't lie, he was one of the best of his era for sure. You're right Ovie only has Crosby to compete with for the best player in his era, showing how the league in this era has less talent than it did in the 70s.

Edited by xtrememachine1

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Marcel Dionne says "Hi".

He probably comes closest, but there is still a pretty large gap between the two players. Ovechkin has already accomplished far more in his career, and he has many years yet to play. For him to not have a Cup with the career he has had is pretty remarkable.

Edit - Oh, we're already having this discussion. Well, I agree with GMR. Ovechkin is one of those rare players whose skill set would be impactful during any era of hockey. If he played in the 70s nobody would care that he doesn't play defense, and he would just be even more venerated. His point totals - for this era of hockey - are ridiculous. He should get a Cup before his career is over, and I mean that both as far as my expectations for him as a player (i.e. - I think the Caps will win one eventually) but also as far as what he 'deserves' given his body of work.

Edited by Aethernum

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