Brent Burns signs a 8yr deal

[miksteri 55]

http://kuklaskorner.com/hockey/comments/an-eight-year-deal-for-bremt-burns-with-the-san-jose-sharks

Sharks have agreed to eight year deal with Brent Burns believe to be worth around $8 M a year on average.

dang...

[kliq 3,755]

Further proof that elite players do not reach Unrestricted Free Agency.

[e_prime 1,936]

Further proof that all hockey players that play in Cali want to stay in Cali.

[Dabura 12,207]

This is your quarterly reminder that we could have and should have acquired Brent Burns when he was with the Wild.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/brent-burns-trade-moves-sharks-closer-to-stanley-cup

Quote

ST. PAUL – The moment Mike Babcock learned the San Jose Sharks had acquired defenseman Brent Burns, he instantly got the look of a guy who’s [sic] team just let one get away.

His Red Wings are looking for a defenseman to replace the retired Brian Rafalski, but it was the playoff rival Sharks who pried the talented Burns away from the Minnesota Wild in a blockbuster trade.

“They just hit a home run,” Babcock said of the Sharks. “That’s a gold medal pick. I’m pissed off.”

 

[toby91_ca 620]

I think it's further proof that guys don't need to go to UFA anymore to get paid.  You are seeing very few guys take "discounts" anymore.  I think a big function of that is the CBA and the escrow the players need to deal with.  I think they are taking the money they can get, when they can get it.

This honestly looks like a lot of money to me.  This puts him as the 2nd highest paid defenseman in the league.  There are a few guys in the $7-7.5M range, but most are $6M or below.  You have Subban at $9M which just seems huge to me, was $1.5M clear of #2 and still $1M clear.  I don't have a problem with Burns being the 2nd highest paid, but it's for 8 years and he's 31.  Not saying huge overpayment or anything, but certainly no discount taken.

[e_prime 1,936]

3 hours ago, Dabura said:

This is your quarterly reminder that we could have and should have acquired Brent Burns when he was with the Wild.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/brent-burns-trade-moves-sharks-closer-to-stanley-cup

 

Should have?  Absolutely.

Could have?  Sure. We probably could have offered up someone better than Setoguchi.  Not to be rude/inappropriate but was Franzen pre-concussion?

Babcock's salivation over Burns and Holland missing out/not even in the game is probably the most telling thing. 

The beginning of the end?

Edited November 23, 2016 by e_prime

[Buppy 1,720]

5 minutes ago, e_prime said:

Should have?  Absolutely.

Could have?  Sure. We probably could have offered up someone better than Setoguchi.  Not to be rude/inappropriate but was Franzen pre-concussion?

Babcock's salivation over Burns and Holland missing out/not even in the game is probably the most telling thing. 

The beginning of the end?

"Could have" is debatable. Franzen was a better player than Setoguchi, but he was also 32 at the time and signed to a lifetime deal. Setoguchi was only 24. Coyle at the time was considered one of the best prospects in the entire league. We didn't have anything that was comparable. 

[e_prime 1,936]

I don't disagree.  This is all hind-sight fantasy trade scheming anyway. 

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by e_prime

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

So he's getting paid $1.25 million less than DeKeyser and Ericsson combined.  

[Dabura 12,207]

1 hour ago, Buppy said:

"Could have" is debatable. Franzen was a better player than Setoguchi, but he was also 32 at the time and signed to a lifetime deal. Setoguchi was only 24. Coyle at the time was considered one of the best prospects in the entire league. We didn't have anything that was comparable. 

I wouldn't continually go out of my way to assert that the Wings could've landed Burns if I didn't have good reason to believe they really could've landed him. While I hate to play the "I know a guy..." card, I do have it on what I consider very good authority (three decidedly "inside" sources, two of whom are friends of mine) that the Wings 1) had pieces the Wild were very interested in (one of them being Hudler), 2) could've made an offer that would've at least matched the Sharks' offer, and/but 3) ultimately didn't go all-in and make such an offer. The Sharks' offer was fairly big, but my understanding is that they succeeded in landing Burns because Doug Wilson was the only GM who came forward with such an offer. There was a ton of interest in Burns all around the league, but the Sharks were the ones who stepped up and offered a "proven" (*cough*) top-six goal-scorer and a high-end prospect.

[chaps80 1,591]

6 hours ago, Dabura said:

This is your quarterly reminder that we could have and should have acquired Brent Burns when he was with the Wild.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/brent-burns-trade-moves-sharks-closer-to-stanley-cup

 

Holland doesn't have the balls to make trades to land players like Burns.

And $8 million seems a bit much, but I guess if you compare him to Ericsson at $5 million+, it's a steal. And Holland sucks at contracts.

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

I wouldn't continually go out of my way to assert that the Wings could've landed Burns if I didn't have good reason to believe they really could've landed him. While I hate to play the "I know a guy..." card, I do have it on what I consider very good authority (three decidedly "inside" sources, two of whom are friends of mine) that the Wings 1) had pieces the Wild were very interested in (one of them being Hudler), 2) could've made an offer that would've at least matched the Sharks' offer, and/but 3) ultimately didn't go all-in and make such an offer. The Sharks' offer was fairly big, but my understanding is that they succeeded in landing Burns because Doug Wilson was the only GM who came forward with such an offer. There was a ton of interest in Burns all around the league, but the Sharks were the ones who stepped up and offered a "proven" (*cough*) top-six goal-scorer and a high-end prospect.

They couldn't have landed him even if they had pieces the Wild wanted. Cause you know, Holland. Hearing one of them was Hudler though...WTF Kenny?!??!

[chaps80 1,591]

13 hours ago, kliq said:

Further proof that elite players do not reach Unrestricted Free Agency.

Not often anymore. It sucks, because I remember deadline day was a day to put everything aside and keep your eye on the tv to see who got who, and there was lots of big names moved. Nowadays it's nothing but depth players and veterans past their prime and are UFA in the summer that move. July 1 usually stinks now too.

[Buppy 1,720]

We'll never really know for sure, but I find it very hard to believe. Both that we had the pieces to make an equivalent offer (without adding a bunch extra) and that if we did Holland wouldn't have done it. Doesn't make much sense.

Bitching based on both speculation and hindsight. Hard to get more irrational than that.

[chaps80 1,591]

19 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

But wait...Wasn't Babs deemed 'overrated' by some here?

Not me. His resume speaks for itself, although only winning one cup in Detroit was disappointing when he could have won two (did come with one game, but leading the series 2-0, should have finished the job) or three. He's even gotten the Leafs ahead of the Wings in the standings. hahaha

It was time for him to move on from Detroit when he did though. Not much more he could do there anymore with what he had, team needed a change, and Toronto offered him $10 million a season. Hard to turn that down.

Edited November 23, 2016 by chaps80

[chaps80 1,591]

9 minutes ago, Buppy said:

We'll never really know for sure, but I find it very hard to believe. Both that we had the pieces to make an equivalent offer (without adding a bunch extra) and that if we did Holland wouldn't have done it. Doesn't make much sense.

Bitching based on both speculation and hindsight. Hard to get more irrational than that.

It's not hard to believe that Holland wouldn't have done it. Since the cap came into effect, he hasn't made one meaningful trade. He hasn't made one since the Hasek/Kozlov trade summer of 2001, and Avery+ other pieces/Schneider at the deadline in 2003 .

Edited November 23, 2016 by chaps80

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

It's not hard to believe that Holland wouldn't have done it. Since the cap came into effect, he hasn't made one meaningful trade. He hasn't made one since the Hasek/Kozlov trade summer of 2001, and Avery+ other pieces/Schneider at the deadline in 2003 .

Trading has definitely not been one of his strong suits, part of that is less trading in general in the NHL, the other part is his reluctance to make a deal.

The only thing I would argue is that the Stuart trade was a meaningful deal, and at the time the Bertuzzi deal was as well (first stint).

[Buppy 1,720]

1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

It's not hard to believe that Holland wouldn't have done it. ...

Not surprising, a lot of people in the world find it easy to believe a lot of stupid things.

[chaps80 1,591]

26 minutes ago, kliq said:

Trading has definitely not been one of his strong suits, part of that is less trading in general in the NHL, the other part is his reluctance to make a deal.

The only thing I would argue is that the Stuart trade was a meaningful deal, and at the time the Bertuzzi deal was as well (first stint).

Yeah, forgot bout Stuart. And Bert's first stint was a big trade, but he wasn't the same player who steamrolled everything in his path and scored 50 goals in a season in Vancouver. Then after the playoffs he bolted for Anaheim.

[chaps80 1,591]

30 minutes ago, Buppy said:

Not surprising, a lot of people in the world find it easy to believe a lot of stupid things.

Well how many times have we heard Holland talk about "kicking tires" but finding nothing, and say that a potential trade partner wanted too much in return, or wanted pieces he wasn't willing to part with? Sometimes you have to give a bit too much or give away players you don't want to in order to improve your team. It seems as if he's always looking to underpay or get a steal. That doesn't happen anymore (often) to any GM, much less Holland. Teams know he's in a bind, and that the Wings have been THE NHL franchise that all others are measured by for 20 years, but now they are in a freefall to the bottom because Holland made a mess. No team is going to help him out. 

[e_prime 1,936]

4 hours ago, F.Michael said:

But wait...Wasn't Babs deemed 'overrated' by some here?

Can we not turn this into an over/under-rating of Babcock thread... it's already turned into yet ANOTHER Holland bashing thread.  (Not that he doesn't deserve it) 

[Buppy 1,720]

7 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Well how many times have we heard Holland talk about "kicking tires" but finding nothing, and say that a potential trade partner wanted too much in return, or wanted pieces he wasn't willing to part with? Sometimes you have to give a bit too much or give away players you don't want to in order to improve your team. It seems as if he's always looking to underpay or get a steal. That doesn't happen anymore (often) to any GM, much less Holland. Teams know he's in a bind, and that the Wings have been THE NHL franchise that all others are measured by for 20 years, but now they are in a freefall to the bottom because Holland made a mess. No team is going to help him out. 

So, you're starting with the completely baseless speculation that there actually is a trade that some other team is willing to make that definitely improves our team. And because you're completely unwilling to even consider the possibility that you're wrong; that maybe the literal few potential trade targets over the last 5 years actually would cost too much (or the teams just plain aren't interested in what we have), you have to force yourself to believe something completely irrational: that the same GM who packaged picks and prospects for rentals and gave a 1st for Quincey would, for no logical reason at all, suddenly turn penny-pincher in a meaningful trade to fill our biggest hole (and the very kind of trade he has obviously been actively trying to make, hence all the "kicking tires" talk).

It doesn't make any sense. 

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

19 hours ago, toby91_ca said:

I think it's further proof that guys don't need to go to UFA anymore to get paid.  You are seeing very few guys take "discounts" anymore.  I think a big function of that is the CBA and the escrow the players need to deal with.  I think they are taking the money they can get, when they can get it.

This honestly looks like a lot of money to me.  This puts him as the 2nd highest paid defenseman in the league.  There are a few guys in the $7-7.5M range, but most are $6M or below.  You have Subban at $9M which just seems huge to me, was $1.5M clear of #2 and still $1M clear.  I don't have a problem with Burns being the 2nd highest paid, but it's for 8 years and he's 31.  Not saying huge overpayment or anything, but certainly no discount taken.

You cannot compare previous contracts with current. How many players make more then Crosby right now?

[e_prime 1,936]

Baseless speculation is what we do best Buppy.  Wallowing in trades that could have been is a close runner up.

IF POSSIBLE, Burns should have been no-brainer type move for Holland. 

Rafalski is retiring.  You're nearing the end of the line with your best defenseman as Lidstrom is now doing one year deals.  (You're hoping and praying that these go on forever because you "like our team."  ..but really you should be saying to yourself, "Kenny this ain't gonna last forever.")

Living in the present:  Holland should be at a point that he makes the trade too good for the other team to refuse.  Burns signing with the Sharks does just go to show that most UFAs that are worth it are gonna get paid unless that franchise is moving in a different direction, or that "paid UFA" isn't really worth it.

[e_prime 1,936]

25 minutes ago, DatsyukianDekes said:

You cannot compare previous contracts with current. How many players make more then Crosby right now?

You have to look at previous contacts to determine what is the new "going rate." 

As far as Crosby goes... who cares?  He's a has been!  We're on to McDavid as the New Savior of the NHL. 

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

2 hours ago, e_prime said:

You have to look at previous contacts to determine what is the new "going rate." 

As far as Crosby goes... who cares?  He's a has been!  We're on to McDavid as the New Savior of the NHL. 

That's fine but toby said "Burns is the 2nd highest paid defenseman right now, looks like a lot of money". That is only true because the cap is higher then when the others signed there contracts. If the cap never moved Burns would be nowhere near the top paid defenseman.

 

Also we have Frk, who needs Crosby or McDavid.